Unions Suck

[BoredWithNoSB]

I'm getting up an hour earlier tomorrow since I'm pretty sure City of Chicago will be in a near shut-down mode. This shut down is caused by a budget shortfall that has several causes, not just the union contracts. The biggest thing I think everyone agrees on is a program to give every senior in the city free rides needs to go. Unfortunatley, our limp dick governor refuses to consider that option. Even with that, the service is looking at $60M shortfall for the year and the more you read of the pay, health care, pension program, and other benfits being given to a group of high school graduates, I find it hard to have any sympathy for them.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...5664756.column


Also, participating in this conversation made me realize just how out of touch some union folks are and that they really deserve to lose their jobs. They claim its not their fault that they make more than nurses and MBA's, but look to us to feel sorry for them for having to make concessions to keep the city functioning.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/chica...g-fees-15.html

I think the greatest thing to happen out of this would be for the masses of the city to say F* em and break the union. I don't want my city to face the same fate as GM & Chrysler.

[ryr8828]

Originally Posted by BoredWithNoSB

I'm getting up an hour earlier tomorrow since I'm pretty sure City of Chicago will be in a near shut-down mode. This shut down is caused by a budget shortfall that has several causes, not just the union contracts. The biggest thing I think everyone agrees on is a program to give every senior in the city free rides needs to go. Unfortunatley, our limp dick governor refuses to consider that option. Even with that, the service is looking at $60M shortfall for the year and the more you read of the pay, health care, pension program, and other benfits being given to a group of high school graduates, I find it hard to have any sympathy for them.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...5664756.column


Also, participating in this conversation made me realize just how out of touch some union folks are and that they really deserve to lose their jobs. They claim its not their fault that they make more than nurses and MBA's, but look to us to feel sorry for them for having to make concessions to keep the city functioning.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/chica...g-fees-15.html

I think the greatest thing to happen out of this would be for the masses of the city to say F* em and break the union. I don't want my city to face the same fate as GM & Chrysler.

You might look other places for your solution, maybe even to the MBA's who are running this circus. What an elitist attitude you've shown here.

How many patronage office jobs do you figure Daley has handed out in the CTA? How many idiots do you figure are sitting at a desk drawing pay not doing a fucking thing?

[ryr8828]

I'd also like to add that those contracts were negotiated. Perhaps the people that negotiated the contracts with the union should be fired if the city can't afford to pay the contracts.

[BoredWithNoSB]

Originally Posted by ryr8828

You might look other places for your solution, maybe even to the MBA's who are running this circus. What an elitist attitude you've shown here.

How many patronage office jobs do you figure Daley has handed out in the CTA? How many idiots do you figure are sitting at a desk drawing pay not doing a fucking thing?

ummm. well, shit, contrary to what you may think, there's been a lot of fat cut this year.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/transpo...Ride18.article

Consider that non-union jobs are in their third year of pay freezes now (while the union has gotten raises in each), without bringing the city to its knees by screaming and whining? Or maybe that the non-union jobs have already been subjected to the furlow days that they now want the union to take, or that the ratio of union to non-union layoffs is in exact proportion.

The "management" is not asking any more of the unions than they've already subjected themselves too.
Also, there is no defense for a bus driver to be making 75K/yr PLUS 200% pension match PLUS gold standard health care.

There may be management fat, but for every desk job guy not doing a thing, I can point you to a CTA garage or platform with union guys kicking back doing absolutely nothing. Also, the union realizes there's not as much to cut as they would hope. The friggin union president had this to say:

Asked what he thought about the decline in management personnel and salaries, Darrell Jefferson, head of Amalgamated Transit Union Local 241, which represents bus drivers, said the union is concerned with the lack of experience of some managers.

"The most important thing to us is that you have people who know what they're doing," Jefferson said. "You cannot run a transit agency like you're running a grocery store."

So, make up your mind. Is it that there's too much management, or not enough? Unlike a bus driver, replacing a manager with 20 years experience with one that makes much less and has less experience impacts operations.

[BoredWithNoSB]

Originally Posted by ryr8828

I'd also like to add that those contracts were negotiated. Perhaps the people that negotiated the contracts with the union should be fired if the city can't afford to pay the contracts.

Again, just like the auto union mind set.

Look where it got Detroit. Some day, they'll learn, I guess.

[ryr8828]

there is no defense for a bus driver to be making 75K/yr PLUS 200% pension match PLUS gold standard health care.

Why did the city agree to this contract then? When was the last time you refused money because you thought it was just too much, you just weren't worth it?

[BoredWithNoSB]

Originally Posted by ryr8828

What an elitist attitude you've shown here.

Explain how my position is elitist? The fact I believe in supply-demand in the labor market?

I'm also looking forward to how you explain that a bus driver should make $75K (plus benes), while still holding on to any sort of Conservative fiscal values. You know as well as I do it is wrong regardless of how it got there.

[BoredWithNoSB]

Originally Posted by ryr8828

Why did the city agree to this contract then? When was the last time you refused money because you thought it was just too much, you just weren't worth it?

The last time I was told I would be getting a pay cut and my 401k match would be suspended in hopes it would save the organization, I left the job knowing I could get another one making the same, or more, money and I did.

I welcome those bus drivers that think they can go somewhere else and make the same, or more, to do so.

[ryr8828]

Originally Posted by BoredWithNoSB

Explain how my position is elitist? The fact I believe in supply-demand in the labor market?

I'm also looking forward to how you explain that a bus driver should make $75K (plus benes), while still holding on to any sort of Conservative fiscal values. You know as well as I do it is wrong regardless of how it got there.

I think it was the inference that high school graduates only deserve to make so much, much less than an MBA like yourself.

My fiscal values aren't the issue. I didn't negotiate the contract. An appointee of Daley most likely did. I'm not going to call the union names because they got a good contract. I snicker at you bringing up supply and demand when it's a government entity we're talking about here.

My guess is that under supply and demand there would be no bus service at all. That's why the city does it with tax money.
The city has a failure on it's hands. Government failing at something free enterprise should be doing, now that's a surprise. Their transit system would be fucked up if the drivers made minimum wage.

We work under contracts every year. We don't ask for re-negotiations or whine when we take a loss on a job. We don't agree to things which would cause us to go bankrupt.

[BoredWithNoSB]

Originally Posted by ryr8828

I think it was the inference that high school graduates only deserve to make so much, much less than an MBA like yourself..

I would say all things being equal, my additional 6 years of education should provide a premium.

Of course, if the high school graduate has a much better work ethic and has started a business, or someting like that, yeah, they can bridge that gap. Also, I am not referring exclusively to formal post-secondary education. If there's some techinical schooling or legit apprenticeship, I can buy that adds value. However, the workers we're talking about here only needed to get a CDL, not rocket science or overly taxing.

[ryr8828]

Originally Posted by BoredWithNoSB

I would say all things being equal, my additional 6 years of education should provide a premium.

Of course, if the high school graduate has a much better work ethic and has started a business, or someting like that, yeah, they can bridge that gap. Also, I am not referring exclusively to formal post-secondary education. If there's some techinical schooling or legit apprenticeship, I can buy that adds value. However, the workers we're talking about here only needed to get a CDL, not rocket science or overly taxing.

Don't take this as me talking about you, but I deal with enough completely clueless over educated people on a daily basis that I put no premium on it.

[Jiddy78]

Really, what needs to happen is that the guaranteed pensions need to end and the boomers that grandfathered themselves in need to croak.

In due time gentlemen.

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

Originally Posted by ryr8828

I'd also like to add that those contracts were negotiated. Perhaps the people that negotiated the contracts with the union should be fired if the city can't afford to pay the contracts.

That's what happened at a local city here.

The Council negotiated a contract with the PD that had a loophole in it hat allowed the officers to use vacation pay- if they chose not to take a vacation- as part of their pension calculations. So many of 'em took no vacations their last two years on the force and collected a much higher pension than they should have been allowed.

A recall fixed that sh!t.

[domenick2x]

Originally Posted by ryr8828

Why did the city agree to this contract then? When was the last time you refused money because you thought it was just too much, you just weren't worth it?

Some nimrod got killed in the negotiations at some point in the past.

The problem with the union is that now every contract is based on that past (bad) contract. And if you try to roll back to a reasonable wage & benefit level, the city is left without busing.

IMO, unions have very few positives these days.

[LionFanFormerlyInLA]

I thought the grammar in the link clinched the education argument.