Hey, About That Iraq Drawdown

[SuperGonzo]

http://www.mudvillegazette.com/031615.html

(The first part of the story, which he references several times, is here (http://www.mudvillegazette.com/031579.html).)

I won't C&P the whole thing here, but what Obama has told us is that one of the Stryker brigades in Iraq is going to Afghanistan as part of the drawdown in Iraq and a surge into Afghanistan.

What Obama hasn't told us is that another Stryker brigade is being sent to Iraq to replace the one that's going to Afghanistan.

Maybe my math is bad. . .but if you subtract one brigade. . .and then you add one brigade. . .that really doesn't equate to a "drawdown." Does it?

Like the guy in the post says. . .a year ago, this would have been one hell of a story, huh?

Imagine if Bush had done this. Of course, you can't. . .because it's simply unimaginable that he would have done this.

[SuperGonzo]

This nice gentlemen put it much better than I can (http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/283993.php). Every word he says is true. Sorry if you have trouble handling that. I'm sure that people like Jim will be along eventually to defend the piece of human filth that they put into the Oval Office, but for most people with any sort of intelligence, this is pretty indefensible.

The President ordered a unit that had trained for ten months specifically for the Iraqi mission to another part of the world that speaks a different language and has entirely different cultures. There is no easy way to determine on a Sunday night how many tens of millions of training dollars and man-hours Obama wasted by shifting this Stryker brigade, but if the Iraqi theater really didn't need them, it at least could have been understandable.

But the Iraqi theater clearly did need a Stryker brigade, and he planned on sending one all along.

We know this because just as soon as the Obama White House sold the drawdown story to the media and the anti-war left, he immediately and quietly ordered that another Stryker bridgade—one that is no doubt capable, but one that didn't have the specific, intensive training of the unit diverted to Afghanistan— rushed to Iraq months ahead of schedule in order to keep the same number of Stryker brigades (two) as there has been the entire time.

There is no drawdown of Stryker brigades in Iraq.

President Obama lied to the American people.

He tried to con those who are against the Iraq war into thinking we were actually drawing down our capabilities there, when all he actually did was use a street-hustler's sleight-of-hand, having us watch one hand moving a unit out of Iraq, while using his other hand to deftly slide in another.

To borrow a phrase: you been lied to. Bamboozled. Run amok.

By a hustler who's been playing you the entire time.

And for those of us who know people in the military, be they friends or family, you should be absolutely livid at the callous disregard with which our punk of a President used the lives of two entire brigades of soldiers and their families as pawns.

The military life is never easy. Not ever. Our troops and spouses know that, and the kids, well, they learn to cope as best they can. There is always pride, but always uncertainty, and little things can make a difference for both the morale of the soldiers and those who carry on in their absence.

Knowing that our soldiers are highly trained for a specific mission makes them feel more confident of success, and more confident they'll have a better chance to come home. Having nearly a year's training wasted—and then finding out several weeks later that all that training was wasted because of political theater orchestrated to benefit your selfish Commander-in-Chief—well, I can only assume that hurts morale. Not just the morale of the troops, mind you, but that of their families, to see how little he cares about those he commands. And that's just the 5th Stryker Brigade.

The 4th Stryker Brigade's soldiers are being rushed to Iraq to keep two Stryker Brigades there. Did they get in all the specialized training they needed? They'll no doubt rush to get it done. But are those soldiers and their families being cheated of time together because Barack Obama is using them to play a cynical political game where he tries to lie to America about the wars we're fighting?

Absolutely.

Anyone who has done any research into who Barack Obama is, instead of who he likes to claim who he is, can't be very surprised that he would so cynically manipulate others for personal political gain.

What is surprising is how brazen his abuses are, and how quickly they've come.

[BoredWithNoSB]

I'm sure that people like Jim will be along eventually to defend the piece of human filth that they put into the Oval Office.

Wow. There's an adult way to talk about issues and then there's this.

[SuperGonzo]

Wow. There's an adult way to talk about issues and then there's this.

It was the best I could come up with to describe someone that would do something like this to America's men and women in uniform.

I was stationed at McChord for 3+ years. . .interacted with lots of folks at Ft. Lewis on a regular basis (since they're only a few miles apart from each other), including numerous people that are personally going to be dicked over by the irresponsibility that this jackass has shown.

I always had the suspicion that Obama didn't give a great God damn about our men and women in uniform. Now, I have confirmation.

Fuck this guy right in his fucking neck.

[Morgasm]

It was the best I could come up with to describe someone that would do something like this to America's men and women in uniform.

I was stationed at McChord for 3+ years. . .interacted with lots of folks at Ft. Lewis on a regular basis (since they're only a few miles apart from each other), including numerous people that are personally going to be dicked over by the irresponsibility that this jackass has shown.

I always had the suspicion that Obama didn't give a great God damn about our men and women in uniform. Now, I have confirmation.

Fuck this guy right in his fucking neck.

Because sending our troops to Iraq in the first place really showed a genuine level of care and concern for our troops...

Of course, I strongly feel that GWB had (and still does) a true care and admiration for our troops from the onset, and I feel that Obama does too. How they go about managing them might be a different story, but saying that our president doesn't "give a great God damn about our men and women in uniform" because of what the "Confederate Yankee" is reporting?

That's just crazy.

[becherr]

This nice gentlemen put it much better than I can (http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/283993.php). Every word he says is true. Sorry if you have trouble handling that. I'm sure that people like Jim will be along eventually to defend the piece of human filth that they put into the Oval Office, but for most people with any sort of intelligence, this is pretty indefensible.

The President ordered a unit that had trained for ten months specifically for the Iraqi mission to another part of the world that speaks a different language and has entirely different cultures. There is no easy way to determine on a Sunday night how many tens of millions of training dollars and man-hours Obama wasted by shifting this Stryker brigade, but if the Iraqi theater really didn't need them, it at least could have been understandable.

But the Iraqi theater clearly did need a Stryker brigade, and he planned on sending one all along.

We know this because just as soon as the Obama White House sold the drawdown story to the media and the anti-war left, he immediately and quietly ordered that another Stryker bridgade—one that is no doubt capable, but one that didn't have the specific, intensive training of the unit diverted to Afghanistan— rushed to Iraq months ahead of schedule in order to keep the same number of Stryker brigades (two) as there has been the entire time.

There is no drawdown of Stryker brigades in Iraq.

President Obama lied to the American people.

He tried to con those who are against the Iraq war into thinking we were actually drawing down our capabilities there, when all he actually did was use a street-hustler's sleight-of-hand, having us watch one hand moving a unit out of Iraq, while using his other hand to deftly slide in another.

To borrow a phrase: you been lied to. Bamboozled. Run amok.

By a hustler who's been playing you the entire time.

And for those of us who know people in the military, be they friends or family, you should be absolutely livid at the callous disregard with which our punk of a President used the lives of two entire brigades of soldiers and their families as pawns.

The military life is never easy. Not ever. Our troops and spouses know that, and the kids, well, they learn to cope as best they can. There is always pride, but always uncertainty, and little things can make a difference for both the morale of the soldiers and those who carry on in their absence.

Knowing that our soldiers are highly trained for a specific mission makes them feel more confident of success, and more confident they'll have a better chance to come home. Having nearly a year's training wasted—and then finding out several weeks later that all that training was wasted because of political theater orchestrated to benefit your selfish Commander-in-Chief—well, I can only assume that hurts morale. Not just the morale of the troops, mind you, but that of their families, to see how little he cares about those he commands. And that's just the 5th Stryker Brigade.

The 4th Stryker Brigade's soldiers are being rushed to Iraq to keep two Stryker Brigades there. Did they get in all the specialized training they needed? They'll no doubt rush to get it done. But are those soldiers and their families being cheated of time together because Barack Obama is using them to play a cynical political game where he tries to lie to America about the wars we're fighting?

Absolutely.

Anyone who has done any research into who Barack Obama is, instead of who he likes to claim who he is, can't be very surprised that he would so cynically manipulate others for personal political gain.

What is surprising is how brazen his abuses are, and how quickly they've come.

This goes back to what I was saying in another thread. Do the mission without the equipement and the training.

If there were a shift in threat I could see rushing in troops trained for a different theater. When you do it to meet your political goals....well, went through that with Clinton.

My Son is with the 1st Stryker Bridage Combat Team. I certainly hope they aren't the ones ill trained to support a war they have been training for in Iraq by going to Afganistan on back to back tours.

[SuperGonzo]

Because sending our troops to Iraq in the first place really showed a genuine level of care and concern for our troops...

Of course, I strongly feel that GWB had (and still does) a true care and admiration for our troops from the onset, and I feel that Obama does too. How they go about managing them might be a different story, but saying that our president doesn't "give a great God damn about our men and women in uniform" because of what the "Confederate Yankee" is reporting?

That's just crazy.

No. . .he doesn't give a great God damn about our men and women in uniform based on the fact that he went forever in denial about the surge working.

He doesn't give a great God damn about our men and women in uniform based on the fact that he tried to de-fund our troops on the ground in theater.

He doesn't give a great God damn about our men and women in uniform based on the fact that he was one of many on the (D) side of the ledger that parroted Harry Reid's sentiment that the war had been lost while we still had troops on the ground.

The difference between Bush and Obama is that Bush realized that the men and women of the U.S. military are actual. . .you know. . .people. Obama, on the other hand, thinks he's pushing little plastic Army men around a map of the Middle East.

Months of training wasted for one brigade. Trying to cram the same training into less time for another brigade. All so that Barack Obama can give everyone the appearance and the facade that he gives a shit about the men and women of the U.S. Armed Forces.

Some of us aren't fooled.

[swordfish]

No. . .he doesn't give a great God damn about our men and women in uniform based on the fact that he went forever in denial about the surge working.

He doesn't give a great God damn about our men and women in uniform based on the fact that he tried to de-fund our troops on the ground in theater.

He doesn't give a great God damn about our men and women in uniform based on the fact that he was one of many on the (D) side of the ledger that parroted Harry Reid's sentiment that the war had been lost while we still had troops on the ground.

The difference between Bush and Obama is that Bush realized that the men and women of the U.S. military are actual. . .you know. . .people. Obama, on the other hand, thinks he's pushing little plastic Army men around a map of the Middle East.

Months of training wasted for one brigade. Trying to cram the same training into less time for another brigade. All so that Barack Obama can give everyone the appearance and the facade that he gives a shit about the men and women of the U.S. Armed Forces.

Some of us aren't fooled.

Not God Bless America, God Damn America. (c) Jeremiah Wright (Obama pastor)

[hannitykillspuppies]

No. . .he doesn't give a great God damn about our men and women in uniform based on the fact that he went forever in denial about the surge working.

He doesn't give a great God damn about our men and women in uniform based on the fact that he tried to de-fund our troops on the ground in theater.

He doesn't give a great God damn about our men and women in uniform based on the fact that he was one of many on the (D) side of the ledger that parroted Harry Reid's sentiment that the war had been lost while we still had troops on the ground.

The difference between Bush and Obama is that Bush realized that the men and women of the U.S. military are actual. . .you know. . .people. Obama, on the other hand, thinks he's pushing little plastic Army men around a map of the Middle East.
Months of training wasted for one brigade. Trying to cram the same training into less time for another brigade. All so that Barack Obama can give everyone the appearance and the facade that he gives a shit about the men and women of the U.S. Armed Forces.

Some of us aren't fooled.
sending troops into combat without kevlar and armored vehicles is caring?

[swordfish]

sending troops into combat without kevlar and armored vehicles is caring?

Sorta like this.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/29/politics/main646435.shtml

"I don't think any United States senator is going to abandon our troops and recklessly leave Iraq to whatever follows as a result of simply cutting and running,” he said.

Then, in October 2003, a year after voting to support the use of force in Iraq, Kerry voted against an $87 billion supplemental funding bill for U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. He did support an alternative bill that funded the $87 billion by cutting some of President Bush’s tax cuts.

But when it was apparent the alternative bill would not pass, he decided to go on record as not supporting the legislation to fund soldiers.

Kerry complicated matters with his now infamous words, “I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it.”

[hannitykillspuppies]

Sorta like this.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/29/politics/main646435.shtml

"I don't think any United States senator is going to abandon our troops and recklessly leave Iraq to whatever follows as a result of simply cutting and running,” he said.

Then, in October 2003, a year after voting to support the use of force in Iraq, Kerry voted against an $87 billion supplemental funding bill for U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. He did support an alternative bill that funded the $87 billion by cutting some of President Bush’s tax cuts.

But when it was apparent the alternative bill would not pass, he decided to go on record as not supporting the legislation to fund soldiers.

Kerry complicated matters with his now infamous words, “I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it.”what the hell does john kerry have to do with this discussion?

[becherr]

sending troops into combat without kevlar and armored vehicles is caring?

Are you refering to Somalia were armor wasn't present or are you talking about sending troops to Iraq without up-armored Hummers?

If it is hte later, those the Army had in the arsenal were deployed to what was then the most forwardly deployed troops at the time...those in Korea.

[Hotpapa666]

Are you refering to Somalia were armor wasn't present or are you talking about sending troops to Iraq without up-armored Hummers?

If it is hte later, those the Army had in the arsenal were deployed to what was then the most forwardly deployed troops at the time...those in Korea.

There's a dream assignment. Patroling the DMZ in Korea....

[becherr]

There's a dream assignment. Patroling the DMZ in Korea....

US forces don't patrol the DMZ anymore, they haven't since the mid 80s. Those stationed at the DMZ (Camp Bonifus) are basically tourist guides. When I was stationed in Korea (2000-2003) Korea was the best kept secret around. So yes, you are correct, Korea was a dream assignment back then.

Several structural changes have since changed what those stationed in Korea do. The main force there was the 2nd Infantry Division but I have seen that unit in Iraq/Afganistan so either they are deploying from Korea or are no longer in Korea but in stateside assignments deployed into theater.

Back to my original point though. If we are discussing not having Up-armored Hummers in Iraq it is because in 2002 those Hummers in the Army inventory were situated with units in Korea...the most forwardly deployed units at the time. Therefore, where they were needed at the time. It wasn't until 2003 that they saw the need for them in Iraq and then began the logistical move of replacing the up-armored Hummers in Korea with regular kevlared Hummers and shipping those with the Armor Plating to Iraq. At about the sametime production began anew on the building of more Up-armored Hummers.

Eitherway, my son has showed me the end result of up-armored Hummers after an EID attack. Not pretty nor survivable.

Thank goodness the past administrations thought well enough to creat/fund a new vehicle, the Stryker Combat vehicle. My son has taken two IED hits while in this vehicle and both are still in the fight.

[Hotpapa666]

US forces don't patrol the DMZ anymore, they haven't since the mid 80s. Those stationed at the DMZ (Camp Bonifus) are basically tourist guides. When I was stationed in Korea (2000-2003) Korea was the best kept secret around. So yes, you are correct, Korea was a dream assignment back then.

Several structural changes have since changed what those stationed in Korea do. The main force there was the 2nd Infantry Division but I have seen that unit in Iraq/Afganistan so either they are deploying from Korea or are no longer in Korea but in stateside assignments deployed into theater.

Back to my original point though. If we are discussing not having Up-armored Hummers in Iraq it is because in 2002 those Hummers in the Army inventory were situated with units in Korea...the most forwardly deployed units at the time. Therefore, where they were needed at the time. It wasn't until 2003 that they saw the need for them in Iraq and then began the logistical move of replacing the up-armored Hummers in Korea with regular kevlared Hummers and shipping those with the Armor Plating to Iraq. At about the sametime production began anew on the building of more Up-armored Hummers.

Eitherway, my son has showed me the end result of up-armored Hummers after an EID attack. Not pretty nor survivable.

Thank goodness the past administrations thought well enough to creat/fund a new vehicle, the Stryker Combat vehicle. My son has taken two IED hits while in this vehicle and both are still in the fight.


I'm not going to pretend to be a military guy. I'm not. I'm along for the ride. So I can't really say much. I can say that it's awesome that new technology is being created and put into use so that the vehicle your kid was riding in was able to save your kids life. I'm truly glad for it and much more glad for him. I'm in a military family and I have a great respect for how the military community(top to bottom) works.

On Korea, in the Air Force, if you are willing to spend a year in Korea they'll sned you anywhere you want to go... It's like any place, if the culture becomes part of you, you love it. I'm a little sad that I won't get to visit Korea...

[becherr]

I'm not going to pretend to be a military guy. I'm not. I'm along for the ride. So I can't really say much. I can say that it's awesome that new technology is being created and put into use so that the vehicle your kid was riding in was able to save your kids life. I'm truly glad for it and much more glad for him. I'm in a military family and I have a great respect for how the military community(top to bottom) works.

On Korea, in the Air Force, if you are willing to spend a year in Korea they'll sned you anywhere you want to go... It's like any place, if the culture becomes part of you, you love it. I'm a little sad that I won't get to visit Korea...

The Republic of Korea (South Korea) is a wonderfully Beautiful country with a dark side. Hahahaha. I was fortunate during my three years to travel all over the country and see many things. Pusan is a wonderful area as are the rolling hills of the central lands. The rice patties stink alittle but no worse then anyone that has passed by a chicken or pig farm in the states. Seoul is a huge city that has anything anyone would ever want. In the spring the old ladies come out and decorate everything with all sorts of spring flowers.

Unlike what you see in films from the war, the country is built up and modern. After the 88 olypics the country boomed. The status symbol (And yes, life there is still based on status) are cars. Everyone has one. If you hit morning rush hour trying to get to get to the DMZ from Seoul (About 35 miles) you could expect what was normally a 45-60 minute drive take three hours.

The darker side is in what you see as you move north from Seoul. After you get past the Train station you start seeing large Trailer truck sized slabs of concrete pillored over the roads to be blown in the event of a northern attack to block avenues of approuch into the city. In the fall the hills start to uncover the trees bearing the trench systems in the hills leading down the main avenues of approuch. There are improved fighting positons that have firing ports facing north and south so they can shoot at the north as they approuch and as they eventually over run positions.

All very interesting.