Assault Weapons Ban

[ryr8828]

http://cbs4.com/video/?id=69904@wfor.dayport.com

2 kids get shot in Miami and the police chief and mayor immediately start using it to blame "assault weapons" and call for a ban. Then explain that they have been in contact with Biden and that there will be a ban.

No matter that these murders could have just as easily been committed with a $250 mossberg hunting 12 gauge or a .22 rifle. But they weren't.

[ryr8828]

After watching the video again, Chief Timoney infers that assault weapons are automatic fire. "They spray all over the place".

No need for the truth here, just say whatever you need to in order to get your agenda through.

[Vegas]

After watching the video again, Chief Timoney infers that assault weapons are automatic fire. "They spray all over the place".

No need for the truth here, just say whatever you need to in order to get your agenda through.

It's shocking how few people understand what a semi-automatic weapon is.

[LionFanFormerlyInLA]

He implied that the weapon used was an AK-47 which I believe is illegal regardless of semi or fully automatic.

[hannitykillspuppies]

He implied that the weapon used was an AK-47 which I believe is illegal regardless of semi or fully automatic.depends where you are. i believe they are allowed in florida.

[LionFanFormerlyInLA]

lordy, I shouldn't have started digging into it....

Per some, they are legal in semi mode, and if you have a class 3 license you can get a fully auto (I'm assuming this was not the case in the above mentioned situation). Then another point brought up is that all AK47s are fully auto and the semi auto is an SMS or something....

Bleh.

[pnkpanther]

It's shocking how few people understand what a semi-automatic weapon is.

I have little problem with gun ownership, I really dont.

but both sides of this argument (usually I argue 10x further left then I am) annoy the hell out of me.

Right wants to own as many guns as they want and never have to register a single one of them, believing making guns more difficult to get will only have an effect on them.

Left believes if everyone traded their guns in for Flowers everyone would be happy and pass out hugs


If you own a gun you should have to register it and if you're negligent in safely storing it, you should be held liable if it used to facilitate a crime or accidental shooting (kids)

when it comes to what should and shouldn't be legal.....I'd defer to others on that.

I dont believe OBAMA will try to take away guns and the run up of sales is just paranoia. Although many gun owners seem to be the paranoid type, so it makes sense.

[KinjaKahn]

If two rifles shoot the same bullet, have the same 18" barrel, and have the same firing mechanism, does it matter how fancy or mean it looks?

[ryr8828]

lordy, I shouldn't have started digging into it....

Per some, they are legal in semi mode, and if you have a class 3 license you can get a fully auto (I'm assuming this was not the case in the above mentioned situation). Then another point brought up is that all AK47s are fully auto and the semi auto is an SMS or something....

Bleh.
The assault weapons ban has nothing to do with automatic weapons.

[LionFanFormerlyInLA]

The assault weapons ban has nothing to do with automatic weapons.

I'm well aware of that, automatic weapons are generally illegal without proper licensing. The assault weapons ban was basically how sinister a rifle appeared to Sen. Boxer if I recall.

[ryr8828]

I'm well aware of that, automatic weapons are generally illegal without proper licensing. The assault weapons ban was basically how sinister a rifle appeared to Sen. Boxer if I recall.
You are exactly right. Right about how it looks anyway. It has nothing to do with function, just another way to grab some more guns from law abiding citizens of the US.

The 2nd amendment says nothing about hunting.

[pnkpanther]

You are exactly right. Right about how it looks anyway. It has nothing to do with function, just another way to grab some more guns from law abiding citizens of the US.

The 2nd amendment says nothing about hunting.

what weapons does the second amendment say we can have?

[Vegas]

what weapons does the second amendment say we can have?

How about if you tell us what weapons the 2nd amendment says we can't have?

[Smoke681]

How about if you tell us what weapons the 2nd amendment says we can't have?
'tis the better question indeed.

[pnkpanther]

How about if you tell us what weapons the 2nd amendment says we can't have?

so if I'm worried about plane crashing into my house 9-11 style, I should be able to have S.A.M in my backyard?

[Vegas]

so if I'm worried about plane crashing into my house 9-11 style, I should be able to have S.A.M in my backyard?


You tell me.

[pnkpanther]

How about if you tell us what weapons the 2nd amendment says we can't have?

why do 85% of questions on this board get answered with questions?

[Vegas]

why do 85% of questions on this board get answered with questions?

Why do you think?

[pnkpanther]

You tell me.


No, I don't think people should be able to have SAM missiles in their back yard.

[Vegas]

No, I don't think people should be able to have SAM missiles in their back yard.

So where do you draw the line? Can I have my Colt revolver? It's a semi-automatic by a lot of people's definition.

[pnkpanther]

Why do you think?

because most people here don't have answers.

[Vegas]

because most people here don't have answers.

Unlike the morons we send to Washington DC?

[pnkpanther]

So where do you draw the line? Can I have my Colt revolver? It's a semi-automatic by a lot of people's definition.


Sure, I don't care about semi-automatic.

I do not want to be the one to decide what people can and cannot have.

I've stated my views, people should license their gun, if your negligent and your kid gets a hold of your gun, you're (as in the gun owner) liable.

They do that, I'm ok.

Is it so hard to license your gun?

[pnkpanther]

Unlike the morons we send to Washington DC?


we're the morons that vote for them and allow for the system of lobbyist

[Vegas]

Sure, I don't care about semi-automatic.

I do not want to be the one to decide what people can and cannot have.

I've stated my views, people should license their gun, if your negligent and your kid gets a hold of your gun, you're (as in the gun owner) liable.

They do that, I'm ok.

Is it so hard to license your gun?

What purpose is served in licensing a gun?

Do you really think crime will go down if guns are licensed? Do you really think that all of the bad guys buying illegal guns are going to stop by the local registration station and register their guns before they knock off a couple of liquor stores?

[Vegas]

we're the morons that vote for them and allow for the system of lobbyist

What kind of answer is that? You're supposed to answer with a question.

[tichabou]

What kind of answer is that? You're supposed to answer with a question.

Why?

[Vegas]

Why?

You don't want to see an endless string of questions in this thread?

[tichabou]

You don't want to see an endless string of questions in this thread?

Where are you going with this?

[Reagan Smash]

What purpose is served in licensing a gun?

Do you really think crime will go down if guns are licensed? Do you really think that all of the bad guys buying illegal guns are going to stop by the local registration station and register their guns before they knock off a couple of liquor stores?

What is the purpose of not licensing a gun? I have to license a car, my dog when she was alive, so why not?

[Vegas]

What is the purpose of not licensing a gun? I have to license a car, my dog when she was alive, so why not?

Too much government intervention. Should the government license your TV? Your computer? Besides, the original intent behind the 2nd amendment was to arm the citizens to limit power of government. Restrictions on firearms including registration/licensing go against that intent.

[tichabou]

Well-regulated milita?

[ryr8828]

What is the purpose of not licensing a gun? I have to license a car, my dog when she was alive, so why not?

It allows the government to build a database of firearms and their owners.

The purpose of the 2nd amendment is protection from government tyranny.

[Reagan Smash]

Too much government intervention. Should the government license your TV? Your computer? Besides, the original intent behind the 2nd amendment was to arm the citizens to limit power of government. Restrictions on firearms including registration/licensing go against that intent.

Do most people who own guns get them because they worry about limiting government power?

Also, like I said, I had to get a license on my dog, which pissed me off because it was out of the way. And will me getting a license prevent the Mike Vicks of the world for creating killers?

[Vegas]

Do most people who own guns get them because they worry about limiting government power?

Also, like I said, I had to get a license on my dog, which pissed me off because it was out of the way. And will me getting a license prevent the Mike Vicks of the world for creating killers?

It serves no useful purpose whatsoever. Mike Vick will still create killers. And bad guys will still buy illegal guns and will not register them. Gun registration has done nothing to decrease crime.

[Reagan Smash]

It allows the government to build a database of firearms and their owners.

The purpose of the 2nd amendment is protection from government tyranny.

So, doesn't a drivers license allow the government to build a database of drivers. Hell, we have license numbers that identify us to the government, which allows them, if they wanted, to follow us wherever we go.

[ryr8828]

Do most people who own guns get them because they worry about limiting government power?

Also, like I said, I had to get a license on my dog, which pissed me off because it was out of the way. And will me getting a license prevent the Mike Vicks of the world for creating killers?

I worry. I worry about my rights being taken away by a socialist government.

[ryr8828]

So, doesn't a drivers license allow the government to build a database of drivers. Hell, we have license numbers that identify us to the government, which allows them, if they wanted, to follow us wherever we go.

I know of no guaranteed right to drive in the US constitution.

[Reagan Smash]

I worry. I worry about my rights being taken away by a socialist government.

I'm not advocating taking away the right to bare arms. I'm not sure I'm advocating anything, just playing devil's advocate. I mean we have to get a shitload of licenses, which most of us think nothing of. Fishing licenses, driving licenses, pet licenses, and we think nothing about them.

[hannitykillspuppies]

Too much government intervention. Should the government license your TV? Your computer? Besides, the original intent behind the 2nd amendment was to arm the citizens to limit power of government. Restrictions on firearms including registration/licensing go against that intent.there is no chance of that ever happening today. you let me know how taking on the us military works out for you.

[ryr8828]

there is no chance of that ever happening today. you let me know how taking on the us military works out for you.

What makes you think that the entire military will take orders from an oppressive tyrannical government?
They take an oath to uphold the constitution.

[Reagan Smash]

I know of no guaranteed right to drive in the US constitution.

Does the 2nd amendment apply nationally or just to state law?

[hannitykillspuppies]

What makes you think that the entire military will take orders from an oppressive tyrannical government?
They take an oath to uphold the constitution.
so did the person they take their orders from.

[hannitykillspuppies]

What makes you think that the entire military will take orders from an oppressive tyrannical government?
They take an oath to uphold the constitution.
and if it's your opinion that they would be on your side, what do you have to worry about? or does the military not have enough guns to go around?

[pnkpanther]

What purpose is served in licensing a gun?

Do you really think crime will go down if guns are licensed? Do you really think that all of the bad guys buying illegal guns are going to stop by the local registration station and register their guns before they knock off a couple of liquor stores?

so making guns available to every tom dick and harry wont increase the amount of guns on the street?

[Smoke681]

so making guns available to every tom dick and harry wont increase the amount of guns on the street?
The amount of "guns on the street" would barely be effected. Those are going to be there irregardless of the strictness or lack thereof on licensing/laws.

I always refer to Japan. A nationwide gun ban in that country, yet I seemed to always hear of gun violence with the Yakuza and their rivals. Innocent people also died many times. A lot of good that nationwide gun prohibition is doing Japan.

[Vegas]

so making guns available to every tom dick and harry wont increase the amount of guns on the street?

No, it won't.

But seriously, which arms do you think are not allowed by the constitution?

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

I'm well aware of that, automatic weapons are generally illegal without proper licensing. The assault weapons ban was basically how sinister a rifle appeared to Sen. Boxer if I recall. Or, in the case of small firearms, how much they cost.

If it was a low-cost handgun, they deemed them 'Saturday Night Specials'. (Yup, just like the old days of bathtub gin and flappers).

These guns tended to be .22 or .25 caliber pistols that were cool to plink with (couldn't do much else with 'em)

In CA, they also ruled a 9mm that had a magaznie that held too many bullets illegal as well. Gun wasn't any different than a police-issued 9mm Beretta, it just held 'too many bullets' for the liberals to stomach (32 if i remember correctly).

So, through two, count 'em TWO, laws that were enacted in Ca., i had to get rid of two guns i had that at the time i purchased 'em were AOK, but then the liberals criminalized 'em.

[ryr8828]

Does the 2nd amendment apply nationally or just to state law?

State law has to be constitutional, if I understand what you are asking.

[ryr8828]

and if it's your opinion that they would be on your side, what do you have to worry about? or does the military not have enough guns to go around?
The military will not go door to door confiscating firearms.

That doesn't mean that the batf won't have a sniper shoot your wife while she's holding your baby like they did to Vicki Weaver.

[pukematrixx]

In London (well Europe in general) guns are not readily available as they are here, note their homicide rate:


New York’s murder rate per person: 6.9 per 100,000, making it it the safest large city in America

London’s murder rate per person: 2.4 per 100,000

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article407900.ece

[pnkpanther]

The military will not go door to door confiscating firearms.

That doesn't mean that the batf won't have a sniper shoot your wife while she's holding your baby like they did to Vicki Weaver.

wow, a ruby ridge reference....

[ryr8828]

In London (well Europe in general) guns are not readily available as they are here, note their homicide rate:


New York’s murder rate per person: 6.9 per 100,000, making it it the safest large city in America

London’s murder rate per person: 2.4 per 100,000

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article407900.ece

People are being attacked by squirrels in London. I want to see you go hand to hand with a squirrel.

[ryr8828]

In London (well Europe in general) guns are not readily available as they are here, note their homicide rate:


New York’s murder rate per person: 6.9 per 100,000, making it it the safest large city in America

London’s murder rate per person: 2.4 per 100,000

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article407900.ece

From a 4 year old article which was addressing gang violence.

I trump your old article with my own.
A new study suggests the use of handguns in crime rose by 40% in the two years after the weapons were banned. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm

[ryr8828]

And another:
UK Gun Crimes Soar After Gun Ban


Sunday, August 26, 2007 8:36 PM

Article Font Size http://www.newsmax.com/images/layout/minus.jpg (javascript:setActiveStyleSheet('default');) http://www.newsmax.com/images/layout/plus.jpg (javascript:setActiveStyleSheet('largeFont');)
Gun crimes in England have almost doubled since 1997, when a ban on firearms began.

According to the Sunday Times of London, crimes in which guns were used numbered 4,671 in 2005-06.

Also, government officials report that most gun crime is committed by children and teenagers under 18 years old.

David Davis, the shadow home secretary, told the Telegraph: "What this shows is that the majority of these crimes are committed by youngsters under 18.

"The government's policy has failed with the group most responsible for this increase in crime. It is long past time the Government stopped believing its own propaganda, and took measures to get a grip."
http://www.newsmax.com/inside_cover/guns_england/2007/08/26/27556.html

[pukematrixx]

People are being attacked by squirrels in London. I want to see you go hand to hand with a squirrel.

i'll get that squirrel in a choke, i want to address your other points but want to research the numbers, I will return back to it perhaps this weekend when I get some freed up time

[ryr8828]

i'll get that squirrel in a choke, i want to address your other points but want to research the numbers, I will return back to it perhaps this weekend when I get some freed up time

Sure you would.

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/resources/images/789412/?type=display

[ryr8828]

http://lonelymachines.org/red_dawn/red_dawn02.png...

[Iron Jaw]

lordy, I shouldn't have started digging into it....

Per some, they are legal in semi mode, and if you have a class 3 license you can get a fully auto (I'm assuming this was not the case in the above mentioned situation). Then another point brought up is that all AK47s are fully auto and the semi auto is an SMS or something....

Bleh.

Fully automatic weapons have been banned except by special permit since 1936. That doesn't mean they are not on the street and the law is not enforced very well, but they are officially banned. An AK, M16, M4 can all be sold in semi mode in several states, including mine. Officially, my Remington 30-06 hunting rifle is semi-auto, as is my M-1. Of course, I also have an issued M-4 that has the fully-auto mode.

[ryr8828]

New bushy, have to attach the pictures to ask questions about it in another forum.

[ryr8828]

Other side

[ryr8828]

Screwed that up, looks like a postage stamp. Another try

[ryr8828]

and the other side

[ryr8828]

Well for some reason the people where I posted these pictures couldn't see them because they weren't logged in here.

Then I put them up on sports boards and posted that link and they could.

This confuses me.

I even checked it on with my laptop which isn't logged in to either site.

[Iron Jaw]

so making guns available to every tom dick and harry wont increase the amount of guns on the street?

Legally, they're not available to everyone.

To legally own a pistol, an American must be a U.S. Citizen and be at least 21.

To legally own a rifle or shotgun, an American must be a U.S. Citizen or Legal, Resident Alien (Green card) and be at least 18.

A person who has a felony on record cannot purchase any firearm unless the person receives a full pardon or has the disposition of sentence removed. Or has a new trial with an acquittal, or an appellate court reversal of sentence.

A person who receives a Dishonorable Discharge (BCD) from the armed forces cannot purchase a firearm (normally, a BCD involves some type of felonious activity.

A person who is a known drug abuser, alcohol abuser, or has had mental problems cannot legally purchase a firearm. However, those records are often confidential and dealers are unable to obtain them from the police.

Fully-Automatic weapons have been illegal in the general public, without a permit since 1936.

However - every type of person with any background can spend a little more and purchase the weapon from a street vendor - illegally. Likewise, though a purchase from a "friend" is supposed to go through official channels and reported to local authorities, it rarely is unless the seller has a federal firearms license. In addition, weapons are stolen from homes and cars on a regular basis. And, brought into the U.S. from foreign countries (I've arrested more than one entrant carrying a cache of rifles/pistols and other armory items in vehicles entering from Mexico).

Rifles and ammunition are also not that difficult to make for a person with the skills, and a shop. My own cousin worked for Winchester for years - he would be an expert at it.

[swordfish]

Legally, they're not available to everyone.

To legally own a pistol, an American must be a U.S. Citizen and be at least 21.

To legally own a rifle or shotgun, an American must be a U.S. Citizen or Legal, Resident Alien (Green card) and be at least 18.

A person who has a felony on record cannot purchase any firearm unless the person receives a full pardon or has the disposition of sentence removed. Or has a new trial with an acquittal, or an appellate court reversal of sentence.

A person who receives a Dishonorable Discharge (BCD) from the armed forces cannot purchase a firearm (normally, a BCD involves some type of felonious activity.

A person who is a known drug abuser, alcohol abuser, or has had mental problems cannot legally purchase a firearm. However, those records are often confidential and dealers are unable to obtain them from the police.

Fully-Automatic weapons have been illegal in the general public, without a permit since 1936.

However - every type of person with any background can spend a little more and purchase the weapon from a street vendor - illegally. Likewise, though a purchase from a "friend" is supposed to go through official channels and reported to local authorities, it rarely is unless the seller has a federal firearms license. In addition, weapons are stolen from homes and cars on a regular basis. And, brought into the U.S. from foreign countries (I've arrested more than one entrant carrying a cache of rifles/pistols and other armory items in vehicles entering from Mexico).

Rifles and ammunition are also not that difficult to make for a person with the skills, and a shop. My own cousin worked for Winchester for years - he would be an expert at it.

They can just write laws where this behavior will be illegal.
Round up those machinist world ruiners!! Non-Compliance will be punishable by death.

[Iron Jaw]

They can just write laws where this behavior will be illegal.


Illegal and enforcement are two different categories.