Negadelphian.

[Jiddy78]

I love houses.

[LSU]

I love houses.



I can't wait to own one of my own.

[Jiddy78]

I can't wait to own one of my own.


You should soon. If not, you'll be priced out forever.

[Vegas]

You should soon. If not, you'll be priced out forever.

I'm looking all over for the rep button.

[ryr8828]

My home has increased in value 1000% since I bought it.

[ryr8828]

I'm looking all over for the rep button.

Well hell, let me go get that turned on for you.

[LSU]

You should soon. If not, you'll be priced out forever.


I have to get somewhere that I know where I'll be living for more than a year or two, thus not end up paying more to move than I did to move in.

[Jiddy78]

I have to get somewhere that I know where I'll be living for more than a year or two, thus not end up paying more to move than I did to move in.

You're going to be poor for a long time then.

[LSU]

You're going to be poor for a long time then.


Thanks for the support.

[Nixon's Head]

This thread will never die.

[Morgasm]

Appraisers are always the smartest, most honest people in the business.

[Nixon's Head]

I noticed a house for sale the other day that I might inquire about. I've been told that its a buyers market right now, so I figured I might give it a whirl.

[Jiddy78]

I noticed a house for sale the other day that I might inquire about. I've been told that its a buyers market right now, so I figured I might give it a whirl.


Mmmmm...Delicious Maintenance COSTS.....possibly even some ASSociation FEES.

[Nixon's Head]

Mmmmm...Delicious Maintenance COSTS.....possibly even some ASSociation FEES.A couple of the many reasons that renting is still so enticing for me.

[ryr8828]

I moved this thread to US Economics and stickied it.

Jiddy will never leave here.

[Nixon's Head]

I moved this thread to US Economics and stickied it.

Jiddy will never leave here.He'll be quite happy I'm sure.

[Roy Munson]

Jiddy you rat bastard.

[Jiddy78]

Jiddy you rat bastard.


The best part was the purely unintentional part...I really just signed on as you to start the neg thread and bust your balls...I was going to get my name changed later...The administrator thing was the nice added bonus.

[Jiddy78]

I'll try a different gear on this thread:

One question:

How do people do it? Spend money without abandon on housing?

Psychology regarding a home/castle?

Lack of care for money?

Desire for profit???

A combination???

How?

Just learned a buddy & his wife bought a 20 year old condo (1100 sq feet) in the DC area for 350k...$250 per month on association...I'm in shock and awe.

[Roy Munson]

I'll try a different gear on this thread:

One question:

How do people do it? Spend money without abandon on housing?

Psychology regarding a home/castle?

Lack of care for money?

Desire for profit???

A combination???

How?

Just learned a buddy & his wife bought a 20 year old condo (1100 sq feet) in the DC area for 350k...$250 per month on association...I'm in shock and awe.
because money 30 years from now don't mean shit.

[Vegas]

I'll try a different gear on this thread:

One question:

How do people do it? Spend money without abandon on housing?

Psychology regarding a home/castle?

Lack of care for money?

Desire for profit???

A combination???

How?

Just learned a buddy & his wife bought a 20 year old condo (1100 sq feet) in the DC area for 350k...$250 per month on association...I'm in shock and awe.

There are several factors.

1) Owning a home is a great source of security for most people.

2) Home prices go up over time. Over any reasonable period of time, you could make a good case for "it's a good time to buy" if you plan on holding the property even if you buy at the beginning of a slide.

3) The family thing. People get attached to where they live and want to own where they live.

4) People are quite stupid and don't care about what something costs as long as they can swing the monthly payment.

[Roy Munson]

There are several factors.

1) Owning a home is a great source of security for most people.

2) Home prices go up over time. Over any reasonable period of time, you could make a good case for "it's a good time to buy" if you plan on holding the property even if you buy at the beginning of a slide.

3) The family thing. People get attached to where they live and want to own where they live.

4) People are quite stupid and don't care about what something costs as long as they can swing the monthly payment.

especially when that payment goes towards something you have the opportunity to own rather than paying only slightly less to somebody else's ownership.

[Vegas]

especially when that payment goes towards something you have the opportunity to own rather than paying only slightly less to somebody else's ownership.

Outstanding point, which I believe will be completely lost on jiddy.

[Jiddy78]

There are several factors.

1) Owning a home is a great source of security for most people.

2) Home prices go up over time. Over any reasonable period of time, you could make a good case for "it's a good time to buy" if you plan on holding the property even if you buy at the beginning of a slide.

3) The family thing. People get attached to where they live and want to own where they live.

4) People are quite stupid and don't care about what something costs as long as they can swing the monthly payment.


Well, you might be onto something. :p

[Vegas]

Well, you might be onto something. :p

I make a fair amount of money off of the get rich quick suckers.

[Jiddy78]

Outstanding point, which I believe will be completely lost on jiddy.


Think so? Last time I checked, I was a homeowner. "Lost" is an oversight on your part, if you are implying that I don't see the value of owning a home. It just depends on the "cost." I know a bad deal when I see one...Sometimes I walk into one or two...I will lose a significant amount of equity in a very short time on my home. At what price point will the present value on my home/anyone's home start calculating out again, eh?

Time will tell.

As sure as you are that housing prices will increase, as am I that credit will tighten. The subprime issues are just the tip of the iceberg.

[Jiddy78]

I make a fair amount of money off of the get rich quick suckers.

Kiyosaki and Trump made a book...I almost vomited. Then I saw Kiyosaki and his broad wife pushing crap on pbs for $150 a pop "donation."

Disgusting. Same f*cking channel that sesame street used to be on. :mad:

[Vegas]

Think so? Last time I checked, I was a homeowner. "Lost" is an oversight on your part, if you are implying that I don't see the value of owning a home. It just depends on the "cost." I know a bad deal when I see one...Sometimes I walk into one or two...I will lose a significant amount of equity in a very short time on my home. At what price point will the present value on my home/anyone's home start calculating out again, eh?

Time will tell.

As sure as you are that housing prices will increase, as am I that credit will tighten. The subprime issues are just the tip of the iceberg.

The point I was referring to was that if you rent, you make the loan payments, maintenance, insurance, and property taxes for your landlord instead of for yourself.

[Jiddy78]

The point I was referring to was that if you rent, you make the loan payments, maintenance, insurance, and property taxes for your landlord instead of for yourself.

If that was a universal rule...everybody would own a home and we would have no renters..........Oh wait.......Supply and demand anyone? Affordability obviously wasn't an issue...All one needed to do was point at a home and sign their name.

[Vegas]

If that was a universal rule...everybody would own a home and we would have no renters..........Oh wait.......Supply and demand anyone? Affordability obviously wasn't an issue...All one needed to do was point at a home and sign their name.

There are far too many people who will never save up a downpayment even at 1% of the purchase price. Too many people simply cannot save money.

[Vegas]

Kiyosaki and Trump made a book...I almost vomited. Then I saw Kiyosaki and his broad wife pushing crap on pbs for $150 a pop "donation."

Disgusting. Same f*cking channel that sesame street used to be on. :mad:

Don't get me started on pbs.

There is a lot of money to be made selling call options. That's where the get rich quick suckers are in the market. Selling covered calls (out of the money) month by month is a fine way to generate steady income.

[BoredWithNoSB]

2) Home prices go up over time. Over any reasonable period of time, you could make a good case for "it's a good time to buy" if you plan on holding the property even if you buy at the beginning of a slide.


What is a reasonable amount of time? I'm looking at 10 years to break even IF the slide stops today and I get 1.5% appreciation going forward (this is after-tax break-even).

Real Estate is evil.

[Jiddy78]

What is a reasonable amount of time? I'm looking at 10 years to break even IF the slide stops today and I get 1.5% appreciation going forward (this is after-tax break-even).

Real Estate is evil.

You'll recover my soon-to-be CPA friend...In the big scheme 50k or so isn't the end of the world.....and you've also learned a very important lesson...The world is full of assholes and idiots...That's priceless stuff....You won't be entering carefree into a contract again in your life....Eventually the pain of this will be inflated away and/or you will be making the big bucks to wipe it away (I vote the latter ;) )....But I still agree...Real Estate is evil.

[Jiddy78]

http://money.cnn.com/2007/03/27/news/companies/lennar/index.htm


Straight to zero...


My favorite part:

The company also said it would not meet its previously forecast 2007 earnings goal and didn't issue a new outlook.

[Jiddy78]

http://bp2.blogger.com/_nSTO-vZpSgc/RgiJ0If8E0I/AAAAAAAAAm4/F1dXS-SdWJ8/s1600/National%2BNew%2BHome%2BSales%2BFeb07.PNG



Notice that last one...Feb '07...That's in comparison to the Feb. '06 before it. :eek:


Sales at a 7 year lows...Inventory at 16 year highs...

But hey, raleigh is booming with all the locust transplants....:p

[Jiddy78]

Oh, and tennessee, tennessee is on fire with that Chips guy hocking lots in nowheresville late night...:cool:

[Jiddy78]

http://wallstreetexaminer.com/blogs/winter/?p=575

[Vegas]

So jiddy, I have more news in the high rise condo saga. My wife is back into the mode of she wants one. She got an email from the realtor last night with a screaming deal. There's a brand spanking new unit with $100,000 discount. It's a mere $699k for 1400 square feet. This one is held by a speculator that's trying to get rid of it as the monthly payments are starting. They are trying to sell the equivalent condo brand new from the developer in the 2nd tower for $899k. I don't see how I can afford not to buy it.

[Jiddy78]

So jiddy, I have more news in the high rise condo saga. My wife is back into the mode of she wants one. She got an email from the realtor last night with a screaming deal. There's a brand spanking new unit with $100,000 discount. It's a mere $699k for 1400 square feet. This one is held by a speculator that's trying to get rid of it as the monthly payments are starting. They are trying to sell the equivalent condo brand new from the developer in the 2nd tower for $899k. I don't see how I can afford not to buy it.


How much did a similar brand new unit go for in 2003/2004?

If it's around there AND you aren't significantly financing it (I assume not), I'd say you have my blessing...Gotta keep the wifey happy.

If those were going for 350k in 2003...RUn.

[Vegas]

How much did a similar brand new unit go for in 2003/2004?

If it's around there AND you aren't significantly financing it (I assume not), I'd say you have my blessing...Gotta keep the wifey happy.

If those were going for 350k in 2003...RUn.

In 2003, they were probably around the same price. I originally wanted to buy in 2001 when they were less than half of today's prices.

But I seriously don't think I'm going to buy one. There's a glut of places hitting the market and I think the prices will drop further. The speculators are taking a beating.

[LSU]

just so you know, when I buy a home, I will get first time homeowner's and put zero down, then get an interest only loan.


3500 sq ft, here I come.

[Jiddy78]

In 2003, they were probably around the same price. I originally wanted to buy in 2001 when they were less than half of today's prices.

But I seriously don't think I'm going to buy one. There's a glut of places hitting the market and I think the prices will drop further. The speculators are taking a beating.

The Vegas market is going nowhere...Only better and better deals will come IMO...at worst, nominally equal ones-thus better ones....That's the whole "soft" vs. "hard" landing debate....

I'm expecting still more nominal losses down here...Hell, according to what I see in asking prices and zillow, my place is down another 5% nomimally from what I bought it...We're touching the 30% mark. But I do believe Florida is one of the worst markets.

Waiting will do you no economic harm....Only emotional, and possibly physical harm, when wifey gets impatient and busts out the rolling pin. That's what mine did...sans the rolling pin.

[Jiddy78]

just so you know, when I buy a home, I will get first time homeowner's and put zero down, then get an interest only loan.


3500 sq ft, here I come.

Better deal than paying rent. Just throw the keys in when you get tired and move on to the next....To extend it out...Only you sign on foreclosed home #1, then wifey signs on foreclosed home #2...That should buy you about 3 years or so of good living.

[LSU]

Better deal than paying rent. Just throw the keys in when you get tired and move on to the next....To extend it out...Only you sign on foreclosed home #1, then wifey signs on foreclosed home #2...That should buy you about 3 years or so of good living.


I'll be betting on another hurricane wiping out most of SE Louisiana, and a great move inland again. Seller's market, baby.

[Jiddy78]

I'll be betting on another hurricane wiping out most of SE Louisiana, and a great move inland again. Seller's market, baby.

Surprisingly, that worked in reverse down here in Florida....People down here with old, run-down rotten homes got big "current market" upgrades to them and houses that were basically crap turned into nice fixed-up homes....or so you think...Actually, these whores took the insurance payday...did most of the work themselves (that's what happens in the land of contractors) for about 1/4 of the cut, jimmy rigged everything as much as possible and sold for DOUBLE post hurricane...or more...So they banked the insurance proceeds AND the sale proceeds...at the hands of some dummy and the bank...

All the while I'm paying triple (bare minimum) what they've paid their entire lives for insurance/taxes...

Ain't life grand?

Violence I tell you. Blood in the streets. Only a matter of time.

[Jiddy78]

Surprisingly, that worked in reverse down here in Florida....People down here with old, run-down rotten homes got big "current market" upgrades to them and houses that were basically crap turned into nice fixed-up homes thanks to insurance (lotto) payouts....or so you think about those upgrades...Actually, these whores took the insurance payday...did most of the work themselves (that's what happens in the land of contractors) for about 1/4 of the cut, jimmy rigged everything as much as possible and sold for DOUBLE post hurricane...or more...So they banked the insurance proceeds AND the sale proceeds...at the hands of some dummy and the bank...

All the while I'm paying triple (bare minimum) what they've paid their entire lives for insurance/taxes...

Ain't life grand?

Violence I tell you. Blood in the streets. Only a matter of time.


***edit for prior post...Where the hell is the edit button???***

[LSU]

Surprisingly, that worked in reverse down here in Florida....People down here with old, run-down rotten homes got big "current market" upgrades to them and houses that were basically crap turned into nice fixed-up homes thanks to insurance (lotto) payouts....or so you think about those upgrades...Actually, these whores took the insurance payday...did most of the work themselves (that's what happens in the land of contractors) for about 1/4 of the cut, jimmy rigged everything as much as possible and sold for DOUBLE post hurricane...or more...So they banked the insurance proceeds AND the sale proceeds...at the hands of some dummy and the bank...

All the while I'm paying triple (bare minimum) what they've paid their entire lives for insurance/taxes...

Ain't life grand?

Violence I tell you. Blood in the streets. Only a matter of time.


***edit for prior post...Where the hell is the edit button???***


Wow, that is surprising. Considering the people around here are having trouble getting one red cent out of the insurance companies.

[Jiddy78]

Wow, that is surprising. Considering the people around here are having trouble getting one red cent out of the insurance companies.

The fraud is rampant. Total sham.

Insurance is dropping 20% next month after 100% increases....Tell me that isn't f*cked up....That's hardly free market. Every insurer has cut and run leaving the state as the insurer of last resort...Policies being cancelled on 30 year customers that never made a claim, and they are paying 10 times what they paid with the state...Biggest farce I've ever seen. Mass exoduses from Florida underway...Thus Roy's market is through the roof between that and New York/DC areas having people flee their oh-so-expensive markets...

Roy's and, surprisingly, Philly...The closest places with some semblance of industry.

Florida is f*cked. That's all I know.

[LSU]

The fraud is rampant. Total sham.

Insurance is dropping 20% next month after 100% increases....Tell me that isn't f*cked up....That's hardly free market. Every insurer has cut and run leaving the state as the insurer of last resort...Policies being cancelled on 30 year customers that never made a claim, and they are paying 10 times what they paid with the state...Biggest farce I've ever seen. Mass exoduses from Florida underway...Thus Roy's market is through the roof between that and New York/DC areas having people flee their oh-so-expensive markets...

Roy's and, surprisingly, Philly...The closest places with some semblance of industry.

Florida is f*cked. That's all I know.


All the same here, which I'm sure you'd expect. There was an article in the paper the other day detailing the fraud cases that have come about since Katrina. People all over the nation taking advantage of it.

The thing with Louisiana, though, is that it's mostly the coast that's screwed, so there's some shelter. But not FL. That whole state is pretty much coast.

Great place to visit, though.

[Jiddy78]

All the same here, which I'm sure you'd expect. There was an article in the paper the other day detailing the fraud cases that have come about since Katrina. People all over the nation taking advantage of it.

The thing with Louisiana, though, is that it's mostly the coast that's screwed, so there's some shelter. But not FL. That whole state is pretty much coast.

Great place to visit, though.

Seriously, I have a client who went into insurance adjusting down here...Made a killing down here...went to Loiusiana, made a killing up there...and literally comes into the office not too long ago cuz he's down a bit now (mind you he just had the 3 best years of his life in terms of income) and tells me "We need another hurricane...Not a cat 5 or anything...just a "little" cat 4..."

How exactly does one respond to that without a weapon of some sort?

[LSU]

Seriously, I have a client who went into insurance adjusting down here...Made a killing down here...went to Loiusiana, made a killing up there...and literally comes into the office cuz he's down a bit now (mind you he just had the 3 best years of his life in terms of income) and tells me "We need another hurricane...Not a cat 5 or anything...just a "little" cat 4..."

How exactly does one respond to that without a weapon of some sort?



Drug him, kidnap him, then tie him to the nearest beachside lightpole during the next "little" cat 4.

[BoredWithNoSB]

I'll be betting on another hurricane wiping out most of SE Louisiana, and a great move inland again. Seller's market, baby.

Or you can always hope that your coastal property becomes a private island meaning big appreciation.


Jiddy, you should have watched the new real estate show they have on Fine Living premeiring this week. They had two house flippers trying to sell their California properties this November.

The first was an artist who had flipped two homes whithout doing any improvements over four years and had made $130K on it. He was on his thrid house, which he bought for $840K. He hadn't made any payments on it and it was in foreclosure. So, he wanted to sell it for "only $100K more than he bought it for.

The second couple were "professional flippers." they had done over 15 homes and had one they bought for 1.3M and wanted to sell for 1.9M after doing $100K worth of work. The real estate lady tried to get them to buy the foreclosure house from her other client, but they diudn't.

Anyway, the show closes in January and the artist flipper had his house foreclosed on. It went for $680K at auction, which didn't even fully pay off the first mortgage the guy had on the house. The second people still hadn';t sold their flip home and had lowered the price to 1.6M.

You would have loved it.

[Vegas]

Or you can always hope that your coastal property becomes a private island meaning big appreciation.


Jiddy, you should have watched the new real estate show they have on Fine Living premeiring this week. They had two house flippers trying to sell their California properties this November.

The first was an artist who had flipped two homes whithout doing any improvements over four years and had made $130K on it. He was on his thrid house, which he bought for $840K. He hadn't made any payments on it and it was in foreclosure. So, he wanted to sell it for "only $100K more than he bought it for.

The second couple were "professional flippers." they had done over 15 homes and had one they bought for 1.3M and wanted to sell for 1.9M after doing $100K worth of work. The real estate lady tried to get them to buy the foreclosure house from her other client, but they diudn't.

Anyway, the show closes in January and the artist flipper had his house foreclosed on. It went for $680K at auction, which didn't even fully pay off the first mortgage the guy had on the house. The second people still hadn';t sold their flip home and had lowered the price to 1.6M.

You would have loved it.

I'm pretty sure Las Vegas is the world capital of house flipping (although around 90% of the investors are in CA). There is still a ton of new construction and lots of people moving here every month. A lot of the newer developments will not sell to the house flippers, but many still do.

[Jiddy78]

I'm pretty sure Las Vegas is the world capital of house flipping (although around 90% of the investors are in CA). There is still a ton of new construction and lots of people moving here every month. A lot of the newer developments will not sell to the house flippers, but many still do.

The commission whores will do anything for that next check. Gotta pay the Lexus lease.

[Jiddy78]

Or you can always hope that your coastal property becomes a private island meaning big appreciation.


Jiddy, you should have watched the new real estate show they have on Fine Living premeiring this week. They had two house flippers trying to sell their California properties this November.

The first was an artist who had flipped two homes whithout doing any improvements over four years and had made $130K on it. He was on his thrid house, which he bought for $840K. He hadn't made any payments on it and it was in foreclosure. So, he wanted to sell it for "only $100K more than he bought it for.

The second couple were "professional flippers." they had done over 15 homes and had one they bought for 1.3M and wanted to sell for 1.9M after doing $100K worth of work. The real estate lady tried to get them to buy the foreclosure house from her other client, but they diudn't.

Anyway, the show closes in January and the artist flipper had his house foreclosed on. It went for $680K at auction, which didn't even fully pay off the first mortgage the guy had on the house. The second people still hadn';t sold their flip home and had lowered the price to 1.6M.

You would have loved it.

What is it with artists?

And why does every flipper show have the flipper take a vacation in the middle of his "flip"....Like, they show these idiots running around and whining about fictional deadlines (really, have to move the house before payment X is due), then these f*cks are off to the Andes for a week, so they can't meet with the contractor.

I swear that they make these shows for guys like me rather than actual house flippers....

I can see them now in the production room "Throw in a vacation to really piss them off...."

[Vegas]

What is it with artists?

And why does every flipper show have the flipper take a vacation in the middle of his "flip"....Like, they show these idiots running around and whining about fictional deadlines (really, have to move the house before payment X is due), then these f*cks are off to the Andes for a week, so they can't meet with the contractor.

I swear that they make these shows for guys like me rather than actual house flippers....

I can see them now in the production room "Throw in a vacation to really piss them off...."

It's all about ratings. Nothing more.

[Jiddy78]

It's all about ratings. Nothing more.

Yeah, well what's the cost/benefit of some extra points on the nielsen vs. some looney from Florida burning down your studio?

[Vegas]

Yeah, well what's the cost/benefit of some extra points on the nielsen vs. some looney from Florida burning down your studio?

You are one fun guy. I hope we get to meet in person one of these days.

[pnkpanther]

Minneapolis North (where harolds chicken is jiddy) is taking a beating right now in foreclosures. A lot of shady lending happened in this poor community, the primary demographic of the area is black residents, so media is spinning it as lender's targeting blacks.....

WHen in fact they just targeted poor inner city neighborhood...

[Jiddy78]

Minneapolis North (where harolds chicken is jiddy) is taking a beating right now in foreclosures. A lot of shady lending happened in this poor community, the primary demographic of the area is black residents, so media is spinning it as lender's targeting blacks.....

WHen in fact they just targeted poor inner city neighborhood...

The blacks/hispanics were just the last suckers in....Whitey got his first....

No need to get racial about it...The shysters will con anyone with a pulse and a pen. First ones in on the frontside will be last one's out on the back IMO....

It's even a whole new world in shysterism...New age shysters con their friends and family FIRST....LMAO....Even Al Capone knew that you took care of yours...F*cking criminals don't even have morals these days....

[Jiddy78]

Minneapolis North (where harolds chicken is jiddy) is taking a beating right now in foreclosures. A lot of shady lending happened in this poor community, the primary demographic of the area is black residents, so media is spinning it as lender's targeting blacks.....

WHen in fact they just targeted poor inner city neighborhood...

Have you gone yet?

[pnkpanther]

Have you gone yet?

i keep planning on it, but something always comes up..one of these days

long way to go for take out chicken

[Jiddy78]

i keep planning on it, but something always comes up..one of these days

long way to go for take out chicken

"4 wings mild and hot"


The path to ecstacy.

[BoredWithNoSB]

I am getting pissed about everyone going all victim on this. Nobody knew their payments would increase if they got an ARM? Bullshit. That's why you get an ARM is to keep your payments artificially low for the first few years.

I haven't read an article yet saying "You know what, I was greedy and stupid. Shame on me for not having nay foresight or proper planning."

No, its always the shiester realtor or lender that fooled them into thinking they could have a mansion for only $800/month for life. They didn't know any better. They thought the 30 year conventional loan was overpriced, and an ARM was like a sales price for a loan because they were tricked.

Its times like these that make me want to turn in my compassionate liberal card.

[Jiddy78]

I am getting pissed about everyone going all victim on this. Nobody knew their payments would increase if they got an ARM? Bullshit. That's why you get an ARM is to keep your payments artificially low for the first few years.

I haven't read an article yet saying "You know what, I was greedy and stupid. Shame on me for not having nay foresight or proper planning."

No, its always the shiester realtor or lender that fooled them into thinking they could have a mansion for only $800/month for life. They didn't know any better. They thought the 30 year conventional loan was overpriced, and an ARM was like a sales price for a loan because they were tricked.

Its times like these that make me want to turn in my compassionate liberal card.

I was at this stage not too long ago...Now I sit back and watch...It's actually fun watching the blame game and finger-pointing unfold.....as expected...

[Jiddy78]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=alOjASNOLKcQ&refer=home

`Some Chop'

``At 10 percent, we're building in those markets, as are our competitors,'' Flaherty said. ``That doesn't mean there won't be some chop, but this isn't a risk-free business we're in.''

Taleo Mexican Grill is in the same Michelson Drive retail- and-office park as Maguire's new building, and restaurant owner Villarreal had prepared for the influx of lunchtime customers from the about 600 New Century workers that would have been there. Instead, lunchtime business is down by as many as 60 people a week, he said. New Century used to call with reservations of 10 to 20 people two or three times a week.

Sales at Baguette Time, a sandwich shop across the parking lot from Taleo, are down about 10 percent in the past several weeks, said owner Mo Khataw. The shop used to get walk-in customers from New Century and made $80 to $100 deliveries to the company once or twice a week.

`Small Guy'

``We're a small guy, so even if we lose $100, $200 a day, that's a lot of money,'' Khataw said.

As recently as last year, loan officers were getting annual pay of as much as $200,000, said Charlyn Cooper, a former manager at subprime lender Secured Funding based in nearby Costa Mesa. Now they're being offered low-paying jobs in call centers.

At the California unemployment office in Santa Ana, which also serves Irvine, fliers in a rack by the door read: ``Home Loan Funding in Irvine is now seeking energetic and enthusiastic customer service representatives. While other mortgage companies are downsizing, we are hiring and expanding!!!''

``Twelve dollars an hour is not a living wage for us,'' said Jorge Perez, who manages the office. ``You can't live here and have an apartment. That's not near what you need to be making.''

Home Loan Funding Inc. representatives didn't return telephone calls seeking comment.

Ankur Kumar, 27, worked in Ameriquest's fraud-detection department from mid-2004 until last May when he lost his job as part of the company's layoffs. In his new career as a fitness trainer, he hopes to have an income of $30,000 this year, compared with more than $40,000 when he worked at Ameriquest.

`Something Risky'

Kumar lives in a five-bedroom Irvine house and pays almost $3,000 a month between his interest-only loan payment and taxes. Kumar rents out three of the house's five bedrooms, which pays for about half his monthly housing expenses. The interest rate on Kumar's adjustable-rate mortgage is scheduled to go up in October. He plans to refinance. ``I'll probably have to do something risky, to be honest,'' he said.

[BoredWithNoSB]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070327/us_nm/usa_subprime_states_dc

More states getting into the refinance business. States giving loans at 6.75% too. Damn, if I would have known I could have skated out form under my loan, I would have taken an ARM. Does this mean I can refi my second mortgage that is at 7.5% with the state now?

Stupid, stupid victim mentality. THIS is a waste of my tax dollars (and I don't say that often to social programs).

[Jiddy78]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070327/us_nm/usa_subprime_states_dc

More states getting into the refinance business. States giving loans at 6.75% too. Damn, if I would have known I could have skated out form under my loan, I would have taken an ARM. Does this mean I can refi my second mortgage that is at 7.5% with the state now?

Stupid, stupid victim mentality. THIS is a waste of my tax dollars (and I don't say that often to social programs).

I long for the day when risk returns to the market.

[Vegas]

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyid=2007-03-29T184850Z_01_N28302234_RTRUKOC_0_US-USA-SUBPRIME-FORECLOSURE.xml&src=rss&rpc=22

Mortgage crisis hits million-dollar homes

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Sheriff Leo McGuire presides over foreclosure auctions in Bergen County, New Jersey, where the bidding for a home reached $1.2 million last June -- a record for one of the wealthiest counties in the nation.

Homes sold on the auction block for as much as $852,000 this month -- more than quadruple the median home price in the United States. County officials believe they are close to setting another record soon.

In Troy, Michigan, Dorothy Guzek, a credit counselor since 1988, has also seen the changing face of foreclosure.

[Jiddy78]

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyid=2007-03-29T184850Z_01_N28302234_RTRUKOC_0_US-USA-SUBPRIME-FORECLOSURE.xml&src=rss&rpc=22

Mortgage crisis hits million-dollar homes

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Sheriff Leo McGuire presides over foreclosure auctions in Bergen County, New Jersey, where the bidding for a home reached $1.2 million last June -- a record for one of the wealthiest counties in the nation.

Homes sold on the auction block for as much as $852,000 this month -- more than quadruple the median home price in the United States. County officials believe they are close to setting another record soon.

In Troy, Michigan, Dorothy Guzek, a credit counselor since 1988, has also seen the changing face of foreclosure.

That article notes how subprime is just the tip of the iceberg....How prime will be affected as well...I couldn't agree more...The effects of this will ripple throughout our country....

Of course, there's always that "Yeah, but it won't happen to me" attitude....What is it about us that we always feel exempt??? Psychology is a powerful thing.

[Jiddy78]

This is great:

http://immobilienblasen.blogspot.com/

http://tinyurl.com/pzhk8

http://www.spiegel.de/videoplayer/0,6298,17200,00.html


this is a picture from chongqing/china that shows a man ( a kung fu master according to dpa germany) who refuses to leave his house. 281 other families have taken the compensation offered from the investor / government.

they have already digged a 10 meter hole around his house. the court has ruled that he has to leave the house.

http://bp2.blogger.com/_1V7wnZxPqok/RgtanDlpvEI/AAAAAAAADYY/D1L50EJ_8nU/s400/china+haus.jpg


http://bp1.blogger.com/_1V7wnZxPqok/RgzR5jlpvVI/AAAAAAAADak/PSOGVSU5q_8/s400/china+2.jpg

[Vegas]

New Century goes bankrupt:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20670001&refer=&sid=aA4QFqFMRwZ4

[Jiddy78]

New Century goes bankrupt:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20670001&refer=&sid=aA4QFqFMRwZ4


The bowl is flushing...but plenty of little turdlets are still left floatin' around....

[swordfish]

When I got my mortage 1.5 years ago I was happy with my 6.125% fixed loan. Now that the interest rates have steadily been going up the whole time, im still at 6.125%. I like my mortgage even more now that I did then. Free market is just that. If someone wants to go out and get a balloon mortgage at 4% then wait til it reaches to 8% to bitch then whos fault is it? They laughed at me when I signed on 6.125% and they were at 4, but now who is getting the biggest laugh.

[Jiddy78]

When I got my mortage 1.5 years ago I was happy with my 6.125% fixed loan. Now that the interest rates have steadily been going up the whole time, im still at 6.125%. I like my mortgage even more now that I did then. Free market is just that. If someone wants to go out and get a balloon mortgage at 4% then wait til it reaches to 8% to bitch then whos fault is it? They laughed at me when I signed on 6.125% and they were at 4, but now who is getting the biggest laugh.


5.875 baby. I commend you for being smart and locking in a nice low rate.

[ryr8828]

5.875 baby. I commend you for being smart and locking in a nice low rate.

Are you saying that the mortgage rate is now 5.875,

Fan Jr.?

[Jiddy78]

Are you saying that the mortgage rate is now 5.875,

Fan Jr.?

No no...MY mortgage rate is 5.875.

I love both you and Fan equally...Plenty of Jiddy to go around. Don't be jealous.

[ryr8828]

No no...MY mortgage rate is 5.875.

I love both you and Fan equally...Plenty of Jiddy to go around. Don't be jealous.

You should love me more.

[BoredWithNoSB]

The Jiddy Fund: In my MBA monthly newsletter.

http://knowledge.wpcarey.asu.edu/index.cfm?fa=viewfeature&id=1399

Cover your basis: hedging real estate risk


Since the turn of the millennium, real estate has become one of the fastest growing investment sectors, not just in the United States but globally as well. The gospel of property investing has penetrated every corner of the world from mature economies to developing countries -- a result of the revolution in real estate investment vehicles created over the past two decades to meet investor demand.

That's the good news.

On the downside, the vast amount of capital looking for a home has crushed yields, while in the United States, which continues to be the leader in financial engineering for the real estate industry, the bursting of the residential housing bubble has created a whole new set of problems for owners and lenders. All this turmoil suggests a need for hedging instruments. Unfortunately, this is where U.S. and international real estate markets lag.

As much as we would like to think otherwise, there's considerable risk involved in real estate investing and one of the ways to ameliorate that risk is through hedging practices, say two people who should know, Robert Edelstein, a real estate professor at the Haas School of Business at the University of California, Berkeley, and Anthony Sanders, the Bob Herberger Arizona Heritage Chair in Real Estate and Finance at the W. P. Carey School of Business.

"Hedging is a potential market and we will get there some day," says Edelstein, speaking about the global real estate market. Addressing the problems of the U.S. mortgage industry, Sanders adds, "Adjustable-rate mortgage resets will be over $300 million in 2007. If nothing else, this is an indication of why there is a need for hedges in this market. (On a reset, individual mortgage payments generally increase, which could push subprime borrowers into default.)

Edelstein and Sanders made their comments at an April 5 seminar in Phoenix entitled, "Frontiers in Real Estate: Hedging Your Bets," presented by the Center for Real Estate Theory and Practice at the W. P. Carey School of Business.


Global markets: the shift toward risk

For Edelstein, who takes a global view of the property markets, "real estate is in a comfortable place right now," due to a number of key factors: global growth has meant individual economies such as in the United States are exhibiting strength, stability and resiliency; capital markets favor real estate; except for a few headline-grabbing instances, corporate profits and balance sheets are relatively pristine; and in a low-interest rate, low-return, low-volatility world "relative" return expectations provide support for real estate investment demand.

Estimates for the total value of global real estate go as high as $14 trillion or as low as $6 trillion, with 38 percent of that in North America, 37 percent in Europe; 20 percent Asia; 3 percent Latin America; and 2 percent the Pacific.

The drivers for the internalization and integration of real estate markets include technology, transparency and financial engineering which has created securitized assets and a better real estate investment trust product. In fact, Edelstein considers securitization "an inexorably sea level change," but he likes other developments as well, such as the spread of REIT markets around the world, with particular success in Japan, Korea and Singapore. He thinks the next major step in regard to international property markets will be China attempting to securitize its residential real estate. Says Edelstein, "the biggest single asset class that exists in China is the housing stock."

The trouble with globalization, Edelstein adds, is that it has always been a multi-edge sword. One of the big problems today is that a "capital tsunami" has washed over the worldwide property markets and this wave doesn't intend to recede so quickly. "There's no end to capital flow in sight (at least for the next six months)," Edelstein declares. "There is so much wealth generated globally, the world is yield-starved. That's why people are doing things you would not have expected."

What Edelstein means is that there has been a shift in risk. Back in 2000, real estate investors preferred core, stable or at the most risky, value-added investments. In 2006, there was a shift away from core to more opportunistic and value-added investments -- the riskier plays.

That is one reason why real estate derivative markets -- the lynchpins for hedging -- are almost here, he exclaims. He goes on to list a number of indices either in the development or planning stages by such groups as National Council of Real Estate Investment and Fiduciaries, Standard & Poor's (residential and commercial), and Real Capital Analytics, and for particular markets or sectors such the IPD Index for London, a new hotel index and Hong Kong real estate index.

"Everyone and their grandfather and sister will have an index," laughs Edelstein, "so there will be plenty of opportunities for hedging." On the buy side, the derivatives potential comes from demand by pension funds and other institutional investors, foreign investors, REITs, portfolio investors and even hedge funds. On the sell side, lenders, institutional owners, CDO (collateralized debt obligation) and CMBS (commercial mortgage-backed securities) managers as well as hedge funds, speculators and REITs can derive some benefit from derivatives.

And the reason for all this interest in real estate investment hedging? Answers Edelstein, "there is more risk now than there was five years ago."

Conditions ripe for hedging in U.S.

If there are some clouds on the horizon for international property markets, then the future is already here in the United States. In the spring of 2007 that has meant an over-arching consternation about the residential real estate market and the mortgage financing instruments associated with that market. This turbulence will eventually lead to the creation of a vehicle that could hedge house price risk, says Sanders.

The U.S housing market, Sanders sums up, looks like this: inventories of new homes and time on market for existing homes has increased and this has led to a slowdown in house price appreciation in most markets.

Looking at the data on a national basis, Sanders points out, annual house price growth started a steep slide south around 2005 after about a 13-year run of improving numbers. This is actually a consistent pattern, as sharp rises in U.S. home prices inevitably are followed by downtrends. The only real ugliness in the present downturn, says Sanders, is that for the first time since 1950 home prices actually experienced negative growth.

Don't panic, Sanders exhorts, as home prices have probably hit bottom and should be trending upward again this year. Besides, there are other positive omens in the universe. While it's true there is a residential inventory problem in the United States with more than a six-months supply of new homes on the market, this is actually lower than in the early 1990s when the last real estate bubble burst and much lower than the 1980s during what Sanders called, "the Jimmy Carter\Fed disaster."

Part of the problem, Sanders continues, is that home price appreciation was so great that by 2003 it had outpaced per capita disposable income. Basically, that means housing prices outran income generated by households, so to meet mortgage payments, families have had to cut back elsewhere or lose their homes. When this happens, Sanders adds, it is usually a "signal for housing prices to come down."

Residential markets don't stand alone. The decade-long boom was partially a result of cheap financing, creation of new mortgage products and an outreach to customers who would not normally qualify for housing. While the mortgage industry helped fuel the boom, it is also partially responsible for the bust.

For example, financial engineering resulted in a host of new mortgage types, such as adjustable-rate mortgages with year CMT (Constant Maturity Treasury). If you were unfortunate enough to have that kind of loan, your monthly payment on a $150,000 loan balance will increase 68 percent between 2005 and 2008, says Sanders. For a one-month, option-ARM with negative amortization, the increase will be an unbelievable 165 percent from 2005 to 2009. There's a product called the Smart30 I/O (10-year interest only, 20-year amortization and fixed for 30-years). If you own this type of loan, from 2005 to 2014, expect a 42 percent increase in your mortgage payment. "This should probably be called a Dumb30 I/O," jokes Sanders.

Up until 2007, if a homeowner were asked why he didn't hedge his house price risk, he might have answered, "Why, my house has done nothing but double or triple in price over the last six years. Why on earth would I have wanted to hedge?" Now, Sanders suggests some institutions are coming around to the thought that maybe homeowners should hedge, the biggest reason being that for the majority of U.S. households the home is the single largest asset in the portfolio.

Who else would want to hedge? Financial institutions could benefit because they have billions of dollars in mortgage liabilities on balance sheets. Why not homebuilders? They have clearly bet on the future, acquiring vast tracks of land for eventual development, or have committed in a big way to one region, such as Florida, only to see investments go south.

The way to hedge the risk of house price declines is with Chicago Mercantile Exchange (CME) Housing Futures, which is based on the S&P/Case-Shiller Home Price Indexes. CME Housing Futures and Options would be settled in cash to a weighted composite index of U.S. real estate prices, as well as to specific markets in 10 major U.S. Cities (Boston, Chicago, Denver, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Miami, New York, San Diego, San Francisco and Washington, D.C.). The indexes are based on recorded changes in home values, using a methodology called the repeat sales pricing technique.

"In terms of deliverable contracts, what one can do is actually set up a localized futures market for properties," says Sanders. "This would free up a lot of homebuilders to weather the storm better and make homebuilding markets more efficient."


Bottom Line:

Since the turn of the millennium, real estate has become one of the fastest growing investment sectors, not just in the United States but globally as well.
Considerable risk is involved in real estate investing and one of the ways to ameliorate that risk is through hedging practices.
Real estate derivative markets -- the lynchpins for hedging -- are almost here, with a number of indices either in the development or planning stages.

[Jiddy78]

That's not the Jiddy fund...That's the "Yeah, you're f*cked, but hey, we'll try to snag a few bucks from china and these dopes in 201k's to cut you some slack" fund.

[Jiddy78]

because money 30 years from now don't mean shit.

And a 201k does? :p


(Hey, a couple months or so late can be funny.)

[Vegas]

Mortgage giants may help borrowers

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/1310AP_Risky_Mortgages.html?source=mypi

WASHINGTON -- The heads of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac said Tuesday the mortgage finance giants are developing new types of loans to help distressed borrowers with high-risk mortgages keep their homes at a time of rising foreclosures.

A key federal regulator also urged lenders to step in now and extend flexible terms to struggling homeowners.

The moves by the two government-sponsored companies, the biggest buyers and guarantors of home mortgages in the country, came in response to the turmoil in the market for so-called subprime mortgages, higher-priced loans for people with tarnished credit or low incomes who are considered greater risks. In recent weeks, the distress has roiled financial markets and stoked anxiety that it could spill over into the broader economy.

The companies' initiatives were disclosed by their chief executives at a hearing by the House Financial Services Committee.

Sheila Bair, chairman of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., exhorted mortgage lenders to show flexibility toward borrowers to help staunch a flood of defaults among homeowners with subprime loans.

Many of those borrowers "could avoid foreclosure if they were offered (loans) that allow for affordable mortgage payments," Bair testified. "Restructuring their loans into more affordable products, especially 30-year fixed-rate mortgages, would bring them back to good standing, allow them to repair their credit histories and dampen the impact that foreclosures may have on the broader housing market."

Most importantly, Bair added, "people would be able to stay in their homes."

The home-mortgage business has exploded in the last two decades with big Wall Street investment firms buying loans in bulk from banks and other lenders, and bundling them into securities to be sold to investors, spreading the risk. That has complicated the mortgage industry picture and the search for solutions to the immediate crisis.

Amid rising pressure to act, Democrats in power positions in Congress have started drafting legislation to curb abusive mortgage lending practices that especially target minorities and the elderly, putting people into home loans that they cannot afford to repay.

The greater distance now usually separating the home borrower and the ultimate holder of the mortgage, Bair acknowledged, "has complicated the ability of interested parties to apply flexibility and creativity to assist borrowers facing difficulty."

Richard Syron, Freddie Mac's chairman and chief executive, said the company is "working on a major effort to develop more consumer-friendly subprime products that will provide stable financing alternatives going forward," which are expected to be available by midsummer.

He said the new products will include 30-year and possibly 40-year fixed-rate mortgages as well as adjustable-rate mortgages with longer fixed-rate periods.

Fannie Mae, in a new program called "HomeStay," is offering new options so that lenders can help subprime borrowers refinance out of high-interest adjustable-rate mortgages or other difficult loans, said President and CEO Daniel Mudd. He said the company plans to stretch the term on subprime loans to 40 years from the current maximum 30 years - which will reduce monthly payments for borrowers by around 5 percent.

Adjustable-rate mortgages, known as ARMs, are especially prevalent in the subprime market. They are considered higher-risk loans because they typically draw borrowers in with an initial teaser interest rate, which can spike upward after the first two or three years. About 1.8 million ARMs are resetting to higher rates this year and next, making foreclosures sure to continue rising, according to a new report by Congress' Joint Economic Committee. Areas said to be hardest hit by foreclosures include Atlanta, Indianapolis, Denver, Dallas and Detroit.

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were created by Congress to pump money into the home-mortgage market by buying home loans from banks and other lenders and turning them into securities for sale on Wall Street. They have grown dynamically in recent years and now finance or guarantee some $4 trillion of home mortgages, representing about half of the single-family mortgages in the country.

[Jiddy78]

Mortgage giants may help borrowers

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/1310AP_Risky_Mortgages.html?source=mypi

WASHINGTON -- The heads of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac said Tuesday the mortgage finance giants are developing new types of loans to help distressed borrowers with high-risk mortgages keep their homes at a time of rising foreclosures.

A key federal regulator also urged lenders to step in now and extend flexible terms to struggling homeowners.

The moves by the two government-sponsored companies, the biggest buyers and guarantors of home mortgages in the country, came in response to the turmoil in the market for so-called subprime mortgages, higher-priced loans for people with tarnished credit or low incomes who are considered greater risks. In recent weeks, the distress has roiled financial markets and stoked anxiety that it could spill over into the broader economy.

The companies' initiatives were disclosed by their chief executives at a hearing by the House Financial Services Committee.

Sheila Bair, chairman of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., exhorted mortgage lenders to show flexibility toward borrowers to help staunch a flood of defaults among homeowners with subprime loans.

Many of those borrowers "could avoid foreclosure if they were offered (loans) that allow for affordable mortgage payments," Bair testified. "Restructuring their loans into more affordable products, especially 30-year fixed-rate mortgages, would bring them back to good standing, allow them to repair their credit histories and dampen the impact that foreclosures may have on the broader housing market."

Most importantly, Bair added, "people would be able to stay in their homes."

The home-mortgage business has exploded in the last two decades with big Wall Street investment firms buying loans in bulk from banks and other lenders, and bundling them into securities to be sold to investors, spreading the risk. That has complicated the mortgage industry picture and the search for solutions to the immediate crisis.

Amid rising pressure to act, Democrats in power positions in Congress have started drafting legislation to curb abusive mortgage lending practices that especially target minorities and the elderly, putting people into home loans that they cannot afford to repay.

The greater distance now usually separating the home borrower and the ultimate holder of the mortgage, Bair acknowledged, "has complicated the ability of interested parties to apply flexibility and creativity to assist borrowers facing difficulty."

Richard Syron, Freddie Mac's chairman and chief executive, said the company is "working on a major effort to develop more consumer-friendly subprime products that will provide stable financing alternatives going forward," which are expected to be available by midsummer.

He said the new products will include 30-year and possibly 40-year fixed-rate mortgages as well as adjustable-rate mortgages with longer fixed-rate periods.

Fannie Mae, in a new program called "HomeStay," is offering new options so that lenders can help subprime borrowers refinance out of high-interest adjustable-rate mortgages or other difficult loans, said President and CEO Daniel Mudd. He said the company plans to stretch the term on subprime loans to 40 years from the current maximum 30 years - which will reduce monthly payments for borrowers by around 5 percent.

Adjustable-rate mortgages, known as ARMs, are especially prevalent in the subprime market. They are considered higher-risk loans because they typically draw borrowers in with an initial teaser interest rate, which can spike upward after the first two or three years. About 1.8 million ARMs are resetting to higher rates this year and next, making foreclosures sure to continue rising, according to a new report by Congress' Joint Economic Committee. Areas said to be hardest hit by foreclosures include Atlanta, Indianapolis, Denver, Dallas and Detroit.

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were created by Congress to pump money into the home-mortgage market by buying home loans from banks and other lenders and turning them into securities for sale on Wall Street. They have grown dynamically in recent years and now finance or guarantee some $4 trillion of home mortgages, representing about half of the single-family mortgages in the country.



Free market in full reversal for inspiring youth to achieve, advance and succeed...I love it....

Why work hard to succeed? Everything is yours at the end of a ball point pen....and they'll be damned if they are going to take it from you.

Nice.

Carry on internet work people!

[Vegas]

So jiddy, the boss is still into buying high rise condo. A year ago, there were plenty of places selling at $1000 a sq foot. The prices have gone down fairly quickly. There was a place selling at $800 a square foot that look semi-attractive and then the news hit. There was a rather high profile murder happened on the 26th floor. This woman stabbed her husband to death and then ran off to CA.

So the boss got an email over the weekend......prices are down to pre-construction levels. They have one unit with mountain views (as opposed to strip views) at $432 a square foot. I'm starting to think that the prices are getting so low that I can't afford not to buy.

[Jiddy78]

So jiddy, the boss is still into buying high rise condo. A year ago, there were plenty of places selling at $1000 a sq foot. The prices have gone down fairly quickly. There was a place selling at $800 a square foot that look semi-attractive and then the news hit. There was a rather high profile murder happened on the 26th floor. This woman stabbed her husband to death and then ran off to CA.

So the boss got an email over the weekend......prices are down to pre-construction levels. They have one unit with mountain views (as opposed to strip views) at $432 a square foot. I'm starting to think that the prices are getting so low that I can't afford not to buy.

Show me the development...I shall call upon the bubbleonians to aid your cause.




You want a good anecdotal tip? Ask the local escorts how business is. If they're hurting...Maybe buying is in the works.

[Vegas]

Show me the development...I shall call upon the bubbleonians to aid your cause.




You want a good anecdotal tip? Ask the local escorts how business is. If they're hurting...Maybe buying is in the works.

http://www.panoramatowers.com/

[Jiddy78]

http://www.panoramatowers.com/

http://homes.realtor.com/search/searchresults.aspx?zp=89103&typ=2&sid=4c17fb1bee2941da97e298c4c8b57736&pg=8

http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/search/rfs?query=panorama&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max

Plenty to go around...

[Vegas]

http://homes.realtor.com/search/searchresults.aspx?zp=89103&typ=2&sid=4c17fb1bee2941da97e298c4c8b57736&pg=8

http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/search/rfs?query=panorama&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max

Plenty to go around...

I didn't even know Pam Anderson had a condo there. Imagine that.

I think the fact that they don't have tennis courts is a deal breaker.

[Jiddy78]

http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_S_rally20.9e7f42.html

Steve Lanuzo, a 40-year-old medical technician at the Naval hospital at Camp Pendleton, said when money stopped coming from Pacific Wealth in October, he and his wife, a nurse, wiped out their savings in a vain effort to keep up $40,000-a-month payments on their mortgages. He said the eight houses they bought as investments and their family home in Temecula are in foreclosure and they and their four children are waiting to be evicted.

"It is kind of heartbreaking when your children ask 'Where are we going to live?'" he said.

It's kind of heartbreaking when Jiddy asks "Why are you such a f*cking greedy LOSER that f*cks over his own kids in his greed?"

[Jiddy78]

I didn't even know Pam Anderson had a condo there. Imagine that.

I think the fact that they don't have tennis courts is a deal breaker.

You can build your own tennis court for a fraction of the price of one of those segmented pie pieces of sh*tbox.

[Jiddy78]

Glenn Beck (why I put him on I don't know...I gotta stop feeding this guy ratings) just busted out that the fear of nukes would destroy the New York real estate market....Pre-excuses, my friends. Documented thus. When your idiot buddies start using it as a post-excuse, do me a favor and punch yourself in the face if you find yourself believing them.

[Vegas]

You can build your own tennis court for a fraction of the price of one of those segmented pie pieces of sh*tbox.

Where would I put that tennis court?

[Jiddy78]

Where would I put that tennis court?

Where wouldn't you put it should be the real question, my capitalist friend.

[Vegas]

Where wouldn't you put it should be the real question, my capitalist friend.

The whole point of having on-site tennis courts is that they're on-site.

[Jiddy78]

The whole point of having on-site tennis courts is that they're on-site.

Plenty of sites available...for the right price. And I bet I could find some for the price you'd drop on an apartment with a fancy name.

[Vegas]

So there's a great local story today. Binion's casino is being sold. It's a very historic casino, one of the oldest in town, former home of the world series of poker, etc. Anyway, it was sold by Harrah's two years ago for $20 million. At that time, Harrah's kept ownership of the "Horseshoe" name and kept the world series of poker. The WSOP was their sole reason for buying it out of bankruptcy in the first place.

The funny thing is it's being sold today for $32 million. A cool 60% increase in two years. And they lost money during that two years.

[Jiddy78]

So there's a great local story today. Binion's casino is being sold. It's a very historic casino, one of the oldest in town, former home of the world series of poker, etc. Anyway, it was sold by Harrah's two years ago for $20 million. At that time, Harrah's kept ownership of the "Horseshoe" name and kept the world series of poker. The WSOP was their sole reason for buying it out of bankruptcy in the first place.

The funny thing is it's being sold today for $32 million. A cool 60% increase in two years. And they lost money during that two years.


I've got 10 bucks says foreign chump...er...investors. Just like old times....

[Vegas]

I've got 10 bucks says foreign chump...er...investors. Just like old times....

Nope. It's a local corporate group that already owns a neighboring property -- 4 Queens.

[Jiddy78]

Nope. It's a local corporate group that already owns a neighboring property -- 4 Queens.


The insatiable desire for a real estate asspounding astounds me....

[Vegas]

The insatiable desire for a real estate asspounding astounds me....

This isn't nearly so much of a real estate deal. It's more of a business deal. There never seems to be a shortage of people who think they have the magic idea to revive the downtown Las Vegas casinos. There are a bunch of projects and investments going on in the area, but they just don't draw enough people. Most folks want to stay on the strip.

[Jiddy78]

This isn't nearly so much of a real estate deal. It's more of a business deal. There never seems to be a shortage of people who think they have the magic idea to revive the downtown Las Vegas casinos. There are a bunch of projects and investments going on in the area, but they just don't draw enough people. Most folks want to stay on the strip.


I'd still bet on the real estate asspounding being worse....

If Florida legalized gambling, I'd be afraid....Of course, my property value would skyrocket...then plummet...then skyrocket....You know the rest.

[Vegas]

I'd still bet on the real estate asspounding being worse....

If Florida legalized gambling, I'd be afraid....Of course, my property value would skyrocket...then plummet...then skyrocket....You know the rest.

I'm just glad that Las Vegas will always be the Mecca of gambling. No matter how many casinos are built, we still get over a million visitors most weeks. They flock here to pay my income taxes for me. I love it.

[Jiddy78]

I'm just glad that Las Vegas will always be the Mecca of gambling. No matter how many casinos are built, we still get over a million visitors most weeks. They flock here to pay my income taxes for me. I love it.

Vegas would become a ghost town if Florida ran that route...All new development would go down here...Hell, f*cking Trump loves him some Florida buildings WITHOUT the gambling...With?

This place would be littered with hookers and booze...and sin would be on every corner....

You can keep it. I like my sunshine pure and unadulterated, sans a couple million real estate cons...

[Vegas]

The plot thickens on the casino sale. It turns out that it's sitting on leased land. They're paying $32 million for the old needing to be refurbished, money-losing casino sitting on leased land.

[Jiddy78]

The plot thickens on the casino sale. It turns out that it's sitting on leased land. They're paying $32 million for the old needing to be refurbished, money-losing casino sitting on leased land.

Took a walk in the ol' neighborhood....Prices are plummeting, to say the least...It's amazing...I'm easily looking at 15% fallout right now...and I'd venture it ends up somewhere around 25%...give or take...

[Vegas]

County's property tax rolls hit $1-trillion mark

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-trillion10jul10,0,1203851.story?coll=la-home-center

Steady single-family home sales last year amid the Los Angeles area's limited mid-priced housing supply helped push the county's property tax assessment rolls over the $1-trillion mark for the first time, officials said in a report to be released today.

The county's 2006 assessed value grew by 9.3%, or $88 billion, over the previous year, despite widespread anxiety over a real estate slowdown.

The increase — above the county's average annual growth of about 7% in the last three decades — "kind of reinforces that property values in Los Angeles County are really not going down, and are at least stable at this point in time," Assessor Rick Auerbach said.

The bulging county coffers mean more money for city, county and school programs, Auerbach said.

However, a sluggish overall real estate market dampened growth of the county's assessed value, compared with the previous year's increase of 11%, Auerbach said.

"It's the year-to-year [changes] in the long term you always have to keep your eye on," said David E. Janssen, the county's chief executive.

Swelling property tax revenue enables the county to be more competitive in hiring nurses, sheriff's deputies and other hard-to-fill posts, add jail beds and expand anti-gang efforts, Janssen said.

"It does fund modest increases in a number of high-priority areas," he said. He expects the downward trend in property tax assessment growth to continue, projecting a 5% increase next year.

Auerbach noted that, under 1978's Proposition 13, a home in California is reassessed only when purchased by a new owner or new construction on the property takes place. Last year, each property that changed hands in the county led to an average increase of $356,000 in assessed value, more than in 2005.

"The economy is really good in Los Angeles County, especially when you compare it to other parts of California," Auerbach said. "This year we're just not feeling that same slowdown."

However, 2006 information "still reflects the last of the boom in real estate," said Jack Kyser, chief economist for the Los Angeles County Economic Development Corp. "It also reflects a red hot" commercial real estate market, he said, even as home sales have come to a "crashing halt" compared with the boom of several years ago.

The cooling of the housing market at the end of last year will probably mean the 2007 property tax rolls "won't look nearly as robust," Kyser said. He cautioned local governments not to rely too much on property tax revenue to fund public programs as real estate growth slows further.

Kyser expects that the lackluster housing market will persist through the start of 2009.

As usual, the city of Los Angeles — by far the largest in the county — had the fattest tax rolls; Long Beach, Torrance, Santa Clarita and Glendale rounded out the top five. Dramatic development in the high desert led to huge jumps in assessments for Lancaster, Palmdale and Santa Clarita.

The county's assessment rolls include 2.3 million parcels and about 300,000 pieces of business equipment, boats and airplanes. The county receives about a third of property tax revenue, cities get a quarter, school districts take 20%, and community redevelopment areas and special districts combined receive 20%.

In spite of the housing market's downturn, the county's economic future looks promising, Auerbach said. In terms of property tax assessments, he said, "We still believe there will be a substantial increase next year."

[Jiddy78]

County's property tax rolls hit $1-trillion mark

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-trillion10jul10,0,1203851.story?coll=la-home-center

Steady single-family home sales last year amid the Los Angeles area's limited mid-priced housing supply helped push the county's property tax assessment rolls over the $1-trillion mark for the first time, officials said in a report to be released today.

The county's 2006 assessed value grew by 9.3%, or $88 billion, over the previous year, despite widespread anxiety over a real estate slowdown.

The increase — above the county's average annual growth of about 7% in the last three decades — "kind of reinforces that property values in Los Angeles County are really not going down, and are at least stable at this point in time," Assessor Rick Auerbach said.

The bulging county coffers mean more money for city, county and school programs, Auerbach said.

However, a sluggish overall real estate market dampened growth of the county's assessed value, compared with the previous year's increase of 11%, Auerbach said.

"It's the year-to-year [changes] in the long term you always have to keep your eye on," said David E. Janssen, the county's chief executive.

Swelling property tax revenue enables the county to be more competitive in hiring nurses, sheriff's deputies and other hard-to-fill posts, add jail beds and expand anti-gang efforts, Janssen said.

"It does fund modest increases in a number of high-priority areas," he said. He expects the downward trend in property tax assessment growth to continue, projecting a 5% increase next year.

Auerbach noted that, under 1978's Proposition 13, a home in California is reassessed only when purchased by a new owner or new construction on the property takes place. Last year, each property that changed hands in the county led to an average increase of $356,000 in assessed value, more than in 2005.

"The economy is really good in Los Angeles County, especially when you compare it to other parts of California," Auerbach said. "This year we're just not feeling that same slowdown."

However, 2006 information "still reflects the last of the boom in real estate," said Jack Kyser, chief economist for the Los Angeles County Economic Development Corp. "It also reflects a red hot" commercial real estate market, he said, even as home sales have come to a "crashing halt" compared with the boom of several years ago.

The cooling of the housing market at the end of last year will probably mean the 2007 property tax rolls "won't look nearly as robust," Kyser said. He cautioned local governments not to rely too much on property tax revenue to fund public programs as real estate growth slows further.

Kyser expects that the lackluster housing market will persist through the start of 2009.

As usual, the city of Los Angeles — by far the largest in the county — had the fattest tax rolls; Long Beach, Torrance, Santa Clarita and Glendale rounded out the top five. Dramatic development in the high desert led to huge jumps in assessments for Lancaster, Palmdale and Santa Clarita.

The county's assessment rolls include 2.3 million parcels and about 300,000 pieces of business equipment, boats and airplanes. The county receives about a third of property tax revenue, cities get a quarter, school districts take 20%, and community redevelopment areas and special districts combined receive 20%.

In spite of the housing market's downturn, the county's economic future looks promising, Auerbach said. In terms of property tax assessments, he said, "We still believe there will be a substantial increase next year."

Public sector whores will not be denied their cut.

[Vegas]

Miami Condo Glut Pushes Florida's Economy to Brink of Recession

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20670001&refer=&sid=a4qa.rYTWyYA

In the middle of the biggest glut of condominiums in more than 30 years, Miami developers keep on building.

The oversupply will force prices down as much as 30 percent, the worst decline since the 1970s, and help push Florida's economy into recession as early as October, said Mark Zandi, chief economist at West Chester, Pennsylvania-based Moody's Economy.com, who owns a home in Vero Beach, Florida.

``Florida is the epicenter for all the problems that exist in the housing industry,'' said Lewis Goodkin, president of Goodkin Consulting Corp. and a property adviser in Miami for the past 30 years, who also foresees a recession. ``The problems we have now are unprecedented and a lot of people will get burnt.''

Thirty-seven new high-rise condos and 20,000 new units are being built in Miami's 1,040-acre downtown, where sales fell almost 50 percent in May, according to the Florida Association of Realtors. The new units will join the 22,924 existing condos in Miami-Dade County that were for sale in April, according to Jack McCabe, chief executive officer of McCabe Research & Consulting LLC in Deerfield Beach, Florida. That's the most unsold units since McCabe began tracking sales in 2002.

``Have you been to Miami lately?'' Florida Governor Charlie Crist said at a homebuilders' conference last week in Orlando. ``It's like we have a new state bird: the building crane.''

Construction Jobs

While the housing industry is responsible for 10.6 percent of the nation's jobs, in Florida it accounts for 20 percent, Zandi said. Florida construction jobs fell 2.9 percent in May to 626,200 from the peak in June 2006, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

The national housing industry's weakness prompted Federal Reserve policy makers this week to cut their forecasts for U.S. economic growth for the next two years.

The economy will grow by 2.25 percent to 2.5 percent in the fourth quarter of 2007 from a year before, compared with a range of 2.5 percent to 3 percent the Fed predicted in February, the board said in a report to Congress.

Florida's robust economy of 2001 to 2005 was driven by the thousands of well-paying jobs related to the real estate market and homeowners who used home-equity loans to pay for items such as boats and big-screen TVs, McCabe said.

``All those jobs are going away now, and we're seeing the trickle-down effect in declining sales in big-box retailers and home-furnishing manufacturers,'' McCabe said. ``Florida is headed to a recession.''

Influx of Retirees

A Florida recession could be averted and the state housing industry's ``serious problems'' solved by an influx of American retirees and foreign buyers, said David Denslow, a University of Florida economist in Gainesville.

``The wave of baby boomer retirees is gathering momentum, and the weaker dollar makes Florida seem like a bargain to Europeans,'' Denslow said. ``With any luck at all that will sustain us.''

Downtown Miami developers already are offering incentives for brokers who connect them to buyers. John Rosser, president of the Key Biscayne, Florida-based John Paul Rosser & Associates Inc. estate brokerage, said he is usually paid a commission of as much as 5 percent when a sale is completed. For the Capital at Brickell, a block off Miami's Brickell Avenue, he was offered what he called ``an unheard of'' deal to steer buyers to one of the 832 units proposed. A salesman said Rosser would be paid 5 percent -- payable when buyers put down a deposit. The project has just broken ground and won't open until 2011.

Puig Bankruptcy

Puig Development Group, a closely held company that converted rental apartments to condos, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection on May 29. The Hialeah, Florida-based Puig and its subsidiaries controlled 2,900 units in Florida, including 980 condos, worth about $210 million, said Ronald Glass of Atlanta-based GlassRatner Advisory & Capital Group LLC, chief restructuring officer for the Puig properties.

``Puig got a little overzealous and a little overly optimistic, and was caught when the market slowed,'' Glass said.

Florida banks have already quit making loans to Miami condo developers, said Kenneth H. Thomas, a Miami bank consultant and a lecturer at the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia.

``South Florida lenders were the first to put money into the condo market, they were the first to see the oversupply and they were the first to get out,'' Thomas said.

Because of the lag time between making construction loans and closing sales on completed condos, loan problems showed up for Florida lenders in first-quarter bank statistics from the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. in Washington, Thomas said.

Overdue Bills

Florida banks posted a 43 percent jump in the first quarter in loans no longer paying interest compared with the last three months of 2006, while the number for banks nationwide rose 13 percent, according to the FDIC.

Loan payments that were one to three months overdue to Florida banks increased 30 percent in the first three months of 2007 from the fourth quarter of last year. The same number for banks nationwide fell 1.8 percent, the FDIC said.

Angel Medina Jr., who runs the Southeast Florida operations of Regions Bank, a division of Birmingham, Alabama-based Regions Financial Corp., said Regions has financed projects by two of Miami's biggest condo developers: Related Group of Florida, headed by billionaire Jorge Perez, and Ugo Colombo's CMC Group.

The bank hasn't financed any Miami condos in the past 18 months because development is ``too aggressive,'' Medina said.

Chicago Lender

That leaves the business to lenders such as Corus Bank, a division of Chicago-based Corus Bankshares Inc. Corus has lent a total of $1.07 billion to eight condo developments in downtown Miami, according to the company's Web site.

Corus's net income in the first three months of 2007 was $26.4 million, a 39 percent drop from a year earlier, according to a company regulatory filing.

``It would not surprise us to see an even greater impact on earnings over the next several quarters, or even years, depending on when'' the national housing market improves, Chief Executive Officer Robert Glickman said in a statement.

Miami condo sales fell to 599 in May, a drop of 46 percent from a year earlier, according to the state realtors association. Condo sales in Orlando, home of Walt Disney World, have plummeted 80 percent, said Zandi of Moody's Economy.com.

``The statistics are scary,'' said Michael Wohl, a partner in the Pinnacle Housing Group, a Miami developer that has stayed out of the condo market. ``There's going to be a lot of blood in the water in the next 18 months.''

Hedge Funds

With prices falling, international investors, hedge funds, private equity firms and Wall Street banks are beginning to shop for deals, said Peter Zalewski of Condo Vultures Realty LLC, a consulting firm in Bal Harbour, Florida. Miami lags only New York in the number of foreign visitors to U.S. cities, attracting 5.3 million in 2006 from Europe, Canada and Latin America, according to the Greater Miami Convention & Visitors Bureau.

``Bigger and bigger funds are coming to me wanting to buy,'' Zalewski said. ``Prices have yet to hit bottom because the bulk of Miami properties won't come on the market for another six months.''

Cement dust swirls at 10 high-rise condo construction sites on Biscayne Boulevard, with its prime locations overlooking the waterfront; at six sites on Brickell Avenue, home to the glass and steel offices of Banco De La Nacion Argentina, Banco Industrial De Venezuela and Banco Santander Brazil International; and at eight locations on the Miami River, which splits the city into north and south. That's according to data collected by the Miami Downtown Development Authority.

Covering Costs

Since it can take up to four years for a condo project to travel from conception to completion, many of the towers rising from the coral rock of Miami were planned and financed during the Florida housing boom, which lasted from 2001 to 2005.

Lenders typically require enough advance sales to cover the cost of a construction loan. Customers' deposits, however, don't always mean the sales will close, said Ian Bruce Eichner, a developer whose latest Miami Beach condo tower is scheduled to open in November.

``The market is as close to a depression as Miami has seen in 30 years,'' Eichner said. ``There's a gargantuan supply of homes and the overwhelming preponderance were built for speculators, not for people who are living there.''

As much as half of those putting down deposits for Miami condos are speculators looking to flip units, or sell them quickly for a profit without living in them, said McCabe of McCabe Research.

Buyers Walking Away

With sale prices falling, McCabe said he expects up to 50 percent of them to walk away from their deposits in the next 18 months rather than complete the sales.

``What's going to happen to all those units?'' Eichner asked. ``God only knows. You couldn't give me a piece of property in Miami for nothing. I like sleeping at night.''

Condo developers encouraged short-term investors, whose deposits helped them secure funding, Goodkin said.

``The developers didn't get to start building until they had a certain number of contracts signed, so anyone putting down money was good for them,'' Goodkin said.

Many ``flippers'' closed on their units and now can't sell them, said Michael Cannon of Integra Realty Resources-Miami Inc., leaving completed condo towers with floors of dark windows and empty balconies.

The Jade Residences at Brickell is an example, Cannon said. The 338-unit, 48-story waterfront tower, a block from the Brickell Avenue financial district, opened in August 2004 with buyers willing to pay as much as $5 million snapping up all the units. Now, the new owners have listed 112 condos for sale and 17 units totaling $15 million are in foreclosure.

Trade Center

Jade Residences developer Edgardo Defortuna, president of Fortune International Realty, didn't return calls seeking comment.

The desire to strengthen Miami's position as a center of international trade is spurring the growth, said Dana Nottingham, executive director of the Miami Downtown Development Authority.

``We want to be a premiere urban center, not just nationally but globally, and downtown residential development is part of the formula for a great city,'' Nottingham said.

Mayor Manny Diaz said he's happy about what he calls ``the unprecedented flurry'' of residential development because it reduces sprawl and brings more people and money into Miami.

``We will continue to build because I see more and more interest from foreign investors coming into Miami,'' Diaz said in an interview. ``I don't think we're done.''

Island Skyscrapers

For Rosser, a former Air Force and airline pilot who's been working in the South Florida real estate industry for 19 years, a puzzling transformation is taking place on Brickell Key, a 44- acre island made of dredged bay sand connected to the rest of Miami by a 1,000-foot four-lane bridge.

On Brickell Key, 10 high-rises loom over the island's two tree-lined streets. The development is the product of a ``building frenzy,'' Rosser said.

The island's master builder is Swire Properties Inc., a Hong Kong-based developer that's a subsidiary of Swire Pacific Ltd. Swire is building a $140 million tower on Brickell Key called Asia, which is slated to open in December, according to Stephen Owens, president of Swire Properties Inc.

``Anyone who says they're not concerned about the oversupply of condos is practicing the ostrich theory,'' said Owens, who lives and works on Brickell Key.

All of Asia's 123 units are sold, with the average size of the units, 2,800 square feet, and the top sale price of $6 million discouraging speculators, Owens said.

Prices Fell

In the 1970s, when condos were a new product, Florida developers built 500,000 units and prices fell 50 percent, said Brad Hunter of MetroStudy, a research firm in West Palm Beach.

``The difference is, back then they were two-story condo buildings that had $50,000 units,'' Hunter said. ``Nowadays they are $700,000 units in 20-story buildings. Instead of building too much stuff that people could afford like we did then, this time we built too much stuff that people can't afford.''

A lot of the inventory 30 years ago was sold off and converted to rental apartments, Goodkin said. That solution won't work now because prices have soared and properties coming on the market will compete with existing condos whose prices have plummeted, he said.

Goodkin said opportunistic investors will buy construction loans from banks at a discount of 30 percent or more.

``The vultures are in the trees,'' Goodkin said. ``Reality has become the new pessimism.''

Holocaust Survivor

Developer Tibor Hollo, for one, isn't worried about Miami's condo glut. Hollo, 80, was born in Hungary and spent his teenage years in two World War II-era Nazi extermination camps, Auschwitz and Matthausen.

Hollo started building in Miami in 1956 and now his Florida East Coast Realty Inc. has two high-rises under construction, the $603 million, 787-unit Villa Magna, and the $120 million, 635-unit Opera Tower.

``Residential buildings, if they are well-located and top of the line, they will sell,'' Hollo said in an interview in his Biscayne Boulevard office, where the east-facing windows offer a vista of about a dozen new condo constructions.

Well-to-do Central and South Americans like Miami because of its Hispanic culture, while the dollar's weakness against the euro has made Miami attractive to Europeans who seek second homes in the Florida sunshine, Hollo said.

``We sold 38 units of the Opera Tower's 635 units to Russians,'' Hollo said, his eyes widening. ``I would never have dreamed it. I would understand 38 Venezuelans, not 38 Russians.''

The skyline of Miami is visible from Key Biscayne, the barrier island where John Rosser lives. Some nights the real estate broker scans the new buildings and sees more dark windows than lighted.

``This is dumbfounding to me,'' Rosser said. ``It's a building boom in the middle of a housing bust.''

[Jiddy78]

The time to buy is not yet....But I'll tell you when if you want to know Vegas...I'll see it in the HUDs. I always do.

[Vegas]

So my wife just forwarded an email to me from the realtor that sells the Panorama Towers units. They have a once-in-a-lifetime buy at $660k. It's been discounted from $799k. With savings like that, I can't afford not to buy.

[Jiddy78]

So my wife just forwarded an email to me from the realtor that sells the Panorama Towers units. They have a once-in-a-lifetime buy at $660k. It's been discounted from $799k. With savings like that, I can't afford not to buy.


Don't buy until you see the whites of their eyes...That price should start with a 4.


I found a fantastic foreclosure mcmansion in my hood today on a bike ride (dancing class got cancelled)...I'm gonna ride by sometime this weekend and take a pic and post it here...Fantabulous...The house looks no more than a year old and has grass up to my hips...

[Vegas]

So the boss talked me into talking with the realtor tonight at Panorama towers. She's adamant that it's "just to take a look" but I suspect she'll be pushing to buy one. It's not going to happen. There's such a glut of high rise condos in town right not that it's ridiculous.

We talked to this realtor a few months ago. She was telling us at that time that there would be a lot of resale units coming on the market as the original investors "made their money" and were ready to flip. It's ironic that they're trying to unload those units now at or below the original offering price. I guess they didn't really make their money.

[Jiddy78]

So the boss talked me into talking with the realtor tonight at Panorama towers. She's adamant that it's "just to take a look" but I suspect she'll be pushing to buy one. It's not going to happen. There's such a glut of high rise condos in town right not that it's ridiculous.

We talked to this realtor a few months ago. She was telling us at that time that there would be a lot of resale units coming on the market as the original investors "made their money" and were ready to flip. It's ironic that they're trying to unload those units now at or below the original offering price. I guess they didn't really make their money.

Oh man...You're screwed. Hey...It's only money. (pats on back)

[Vegas]

Oh man...You're screwed. Hey...It's only money. (pats on back)

The purchase isn't going to happen. I have no doubt she'll be ready to buy. I'm already dug in on a "no" answer to this one. The funny thing is that we were in the parking lot of another condo development a few years ago with the checkbook in hand ready to buy and she backed out. Even at today's prices, that condo is worth 2 1/2 times more than the price at that time.

[Jiddy78]

The purchase isn't going to happen. I have no doubt she'll be ready to buy. I'm already dug in on a "no" answer to this one. The funny thing is that we were in the parking lot of another condo development a few years ago with the checkbook in hand ready to buy and she backed out. Even at today's prices, that condo is worth 2 1/2 times more than the price at that time.

A woman with that kind of financial savvy would bankrupt me...(kidding)

[Vegas]

A woman with that kind of financial savvy would bankrupt me...(kidding)

LOL My wife is extremely smart, but a lot of her compulsive decisions drive me up the wall (usually when she's buying and rarely when she's not buying).

[Vegas]

U.S. MBA's Mortgage Applications Index Rose 8.1%

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=amcA4v4SfFSI&refer=news

Aug. 8 (Bloomberg) -- Mortgage applications in the U.S. rose last week by the most since January, as cheaper borrowing costs encouraged more Americans to seek loans for home purchases and refinancing.

The Mortgage Bankers Association's index of applications to buy a home or refinance a loan jumped 8.1 percent to 656.5 from 607.1 the prior week. A gauge of demand for credit for home purchases rose 7.4 percent, and the average rate on a 30-year fixed mortgage fell for the fourth consecutive week, the group said today.

A resilient labor market and lower home prices may support sales and eventually help reduce the glut of unsold properties, economists said. A report last week showed Americans signed more contracts to buy previously owned homes in June.

``The sharp weakness in home sales and housing starts experienced in 2006 and so far in 2007 should ease,'' said Steven Wood, president of Insight Economics LLC in Danville, California. Still, ``no significant rebound is in sight. Home construction is unlikely to be a positive for economic growth until early next year at the earliest.''

A separate report from the Commerce Department today showed that sales at U.S. wholesalers rose faster than inventories in June, making it likely companies will continue to rebuild stocks. Wholesaler stockpiles increased 0.5 percent, more than anticipated by economists.

Declining Rates

The mortgage rate for 30-year fixed loans fell to the lowest since early June, while rates also dropped for 15-year fixed and one-year adjustable loans.

The mortgage bankers' purchase index rose to 447.4 last week, the first increase in a month, from 416.6 the previous week, today's report showed. The refinancing index increased 9.1 percent to 1881.1 last week, the highest in more than two months, from 1724.1. Both measures were higher than a year earlier.

The share of applications for refinancing rose to 39.9 percent from 39.4 percent the prior week. Adjustable-rate mortgages rose to 22.5 percent of all filings from 22.3 percent.

Purchase applications may be elevated because borrowers who had previously been rejected are reapplying for loans, and some consumers are applying to several lenders in hopes of getting approved by at least one, economists have said.

The average rate on a 30-year fixed mortgage fell to 6.41 percent last week, from 6.50 percent the prior week, the report showed. At last week's rate, monthly borrowing costs for each $100,000 of a loan would have been about $626, or $3 less than a year earlier.

Rising Defaults

Rising defaults by those with poor or limited credit history are throwing more homes back on the market, which means the housing slump will persist into 2008, some economists said.

American Home Mortgage Investment Corp. filed for bankruptcy this week, becoming the second-biggest residential lender in the U.S. to close down this year. Melville, New York-based American Home specialized in mortgages for people who fall just short of top credit scores.

Mortgage defaults will rise for at least a year, spreading beyond subprime borrowers to those with better credit, Friedman Billings Ramsey Group Inc., a real estate investment trust, forecast this week. Subprime defaults are already the highest in a decade, the Arlington, Virginia-based company said.

Federal Reserve

Federal Reserve policy makers yesterday held their interest- rate target at 5.25 percent for a ninth time and maintained that inflation is the biggest risk for the economy.

They also acknowledged that persistent declines in housing, stricter lending standards and volatile financial markets have raised concerns about growth ``somewhat,'' according to their statement. Still, they projected the economy would continue to expand.

Today's mortgage bankers' data showed the average rate on a 15-year fixed mortgage decreased to 6.16 percent last week, from 6.20 percent the prior week. The one-year adjustable mortgage rate fell to 5.69 percent from 5.73 percent.

The Mortgage Bankers Association's survey, compiled every week since 1990, covers about half of all U.S. retail residential mortgage originations.

[Jiddy78]

"Mortgage applications is a bullsh*t measure" says I.

[Vegas]

"Mortgage applications is a bullsh*t measure" says I.

Not if you're talking about new applications to purchase. If they're just refinances, that's not a good indicator.

[Jiddy78]

Not if you're talking about new applications to purchase. If they're just refinances, that's not a good indicator.

Not anymore...120% LTV ruined that idea AND they don't tell you the difference in their shill pieces anyway...so the whole talking point is bullsh*t...

[abreu]

What does refinancing do for you? Seems like lots of homeowners around these parts are getting a "re-fi" and I'm just trying to figure out what it is and what it does

[ryr8828]

What does refinancing do for you? Seems like lots of homeowners around these parts are getting a "re-fi" and I'm just trying to figure out what it is and what it does

If the new rate is lower you can essentially put free money in your pocket.

Usually people just borrow against their home and spend the money on other things.

[BoredWithNoSB]

What does refinancing do for you? Seems like lots of homeowners around these parts are getting a "re-fi" and I'm just trying to figure out what it is and what it does

In addition to what Ryr mentioned (which is refered to as getting cash out of your home), if you have a bad loan (one that has interest rates that rise automatically after a few years) a Refinance allows you to get a new loan at a fixed interest rate to pay off your variable rate loan r very high fixed rate loan. Many people had loans at 14% from the 80's. When rates went down in the late 90's they refinanced them to lower rates.

Of course, many people got the variable rate loans because the interest rate was artificially low in the first few years and allowed them to buy more house than they could afford. As the rates go up, they can't afford their home anymore. The Jiddy's of the world predicted correctly that these people want to refinance to a normal fixed rate loan, but have shitty credit and can't afford the normal payments on their home anyway. Also, some people got loans on their house for more than they were worth. Now that they are trying to refinance the bank will only give them money up to the value of their home, which isn't enough to pay off the variable rate loan they got for too much money.

[Vegas]

If the new rate is lower you can essentially put free money in your pocket.

Usually people just borrow against their home and spend the money on other things.

In California, people mostly turn their equity into a BMW.

[Jiddy78]

What does refinancing do for you? Seems like lots of homeowners around these parts are getting a "re-fi" and I'm just trying to figure out what it is and what it does

Re-fi is a fancy word for that means "I want to buy something I can't afford" or "I've bought something I can't afford, please help me." You know how when you look at something and say "Man, it would be nice to have that, but I can't afford it"...I'd say about 20-30% of that cost you're looking at "not affording" is attributable to a bunch of assholes in your position that buy it anyway.

[Vegas]

Economy Under Capital Markets' Sway

http://ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=271544202711297

It's no secret that the housing industry is in a deep downturn. In its heyday, the real estate boom added 30,000 housing-related jobs a month (construction workers, mortgage brokers, real estate agents).

Now the bust is subtracting 15,000 a month, says Moody's Economy.com. In 2005, housing starts reached almost 2.1 million; Economy.com expects starts of 1.4 million this year. By mid-2008, it forecasts that median prices for existing homes will be down almost 9% from their peak.

But the housing bust is really a small part of a larger story. Call it the tyranny of capital markets — global markets for stocks, bonds and other financial instruments. Our economy is increasingly under their sway.

These markets are, of course, huge. At last count, the U.S. stock and bond markets alone were worth about $18 trillion and $24 trillion, respectively.

Consider the impact on the "real" economy of jobs and production:

• In the 1990s, speculation in high-tech stocks and exuberant venture capital funds fueled a market "bubble" and much wasteful business investment. From 1998 to 2000, venture capital investment in startup firms quintupled to $105 billion. Too much money chased too few good ideas. As startups went bankrupt, the stock market lost half its value and the economy went into a recession in early 2001.

• The 1997-98 Asian "financial crisis" began when foreign investors abruptly withdrew funds from Thailand and other "emerging market" countries. Many of them experienced deep recessions. In 1998, Thailand's economy was down 10.5%, South Korea's 6.9% and Indonesia's 13.1%.

• High stock and real estate values have powered Americans' two-decade-long consumption binge. From 1982 to 2005, the personal savings rate dropped from 11% of disposable income to almost zero. People felt freer to spend — or borrow — as their financial and housing wealth rose. The Dow Jones industrial average is now almost 15 times higher than in 1982.

• Global trade imbalances — huge U.S. deficits and other countries' surpluses — stem partly from the ease of cross-border investing. At year-end 2006, foreigners owned $7.3 trillion of U.S. stocks and bonds. If the dollars foreigners earned by exports couldn't be invested, they'd be sold (depressing the dollar's value) or used for imports.

All this revises standard economics. The basic college course I took in the 1960s barely mentioned capital markets. Finance (the borrowing, investing and lending of money) was considered a sideshow. If the economy did well, the stock market rose. If companies needed money to invest — and were good credit risks — they could borrow from banks or sell bonds.

Finance was passive. It paled in importance compared with technology, management or government policy. Based on some recent textbooks I've examined, that presumption still dominates.

Housing is its latest refutation. The boom stemmed partly from new "subprime" mortgages, enabling people with lower incomes or weak credit histories to become homebuyers.

Credit standards were relaxed, down-payment requirements lowered. The packaging of these mortgages into "collateralized debt obligations," or CDOs, also encouraged lending. CDOs resemble bonds, with homeowners' monthly payments funneled to investors. CDOs are complex securities.

Payments are split among investors, with the highest returns going to those accepting most of the default risk. The result: Credit flowed freely because a (relatively) small number of investors assumed big risks.

It was a bad gamble. Many subprime mortgages have gone into default.

CDO investors are suffering losses. The credit cycle has reversed:

Investors have retreated; credit standards have tightened; homebuyers are scarcer; housing prices are dropping; it's harder to borrow against homes; consumer spending is weakening. Whether this will cause a recession is unclear.

But it captures a larger dilemma. Capital markets are not just incidental to economic growth. They're a force for both good and ill. The recent financial innovations have made it easier for countries, companies and individuals to borrow and tap investment capital.

Many types of credit (auto loans, business loans) have been "securitized," unlocking new sources of money. New financial institutions have flourished: "hedge funds," pools of capital provided by pension funds and wealthy investors; "private equity" funds, with money from similar sources.

The peril is that so much has changed so quickly that no one knows how the system operates. It often is roulette.

Monday's defensible investment may become Tuesday's silly speculation. Global markets are interconnected, and financial conditions are tightening. Some hedge funds — including foreign funds — have suffered huge losses on U.S. subprime mortgages.

These could harm banks that lent to hedge funds. Up to a point, losses are inevitable and desirable.

They remind investors of risk. But too many losses — too much fear of the unknown — can trigger a chain reaction of selling and credit contraction. This must worry the Federal Reserve and other government central banks.

[Jiddy78]

Economy Under Capital Markets' Sway

http://ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=271544202711297

It's no secret that the housing industry is in a deep downturn. In its heyday, the real estate boom added 30,000 housing-related jobs a month (construction workers, mortgage brokers, real estate agents).

Now the bust is subtracting 15,000 a month, says Moody's Economy.com. In 2005, housing starts reached almost 2.1 million; Economy.com expects starts of 1.4 million this year. By mid-2008, it forecasts that median prices for existing homes will be down almost 9% from their peak.

But the housing bust is really a small part of a larger story. Call it the tyranny of capital markets — global markets for stocks, bonds and other financial instruments. Our economy is increasingly under their sway.

These markets are, of course, huge. At last count, the U.S. stock and bond markets alone were worth about $18 trillion and $24 trillion, respectively.

Consider the impact on the "real" economy of jobs and production:

• In the 1990s, speculation in high-tech stocks and exuberant venture capital funds fueled a market "bubble" and much wasteful business investment. From 1998 to 2000, venture capital investment in startup firms quintupled to $105 billion. Too much money chased too few good ideas. As startups went bankrupt, the stock market lost half its value and the economy went into a recession in early 2001.

• The 1997-98 Asian "financial crisis" began when foreign investors abruptly withdrew funds from Thailand and other "emerging market" countries. Many of them experienced deep recessions. In 1998, Thailand's economy was down 10.5%, South Korea's 6.9% and Indonesia's 13.1%.

• High stock and real estate values have powered Americans' two-decade-long consumption binge. From 1982 to 2005, the personal savings rate dropped from 11% of disposable income to almost zero. People felt freer to spend — or borrow — as their financial and housing wealth rose. The Dow Jones industrial average is now almost 15 times higher than in 1982.

• Global trade imbalances — huge U.S. deficits and other countries' surpluses — stem partly from the ease of cross-border investing. At year-end 2006, foreigners owned $7.3 trillion of U.S. stocks and bonds. If the dollars foreigners earned by exports couldn't be invested, they'd be sold (depressing the dollar's value) or used for imports.

All this revises standard economics. The basic college course I took in the 1960s barely mentioned capital markets. Finance (the borrowing, investing and lending of money) was considered a sideshow. If the economy did well, the stock market rose. If companies needed money to invest — and were good credit risks — they could borrow from banks or sell bonds.

Finance was passive. It paled in importance compared with technology, management or government policy. Based on some recent textbooks I've examined, that presumption still dominates.

Housing is its latest refutation. The boom stemmed partly from new "subprime" mortgages, enabling people with lower incomes or weak credit histories to become homebuyers.

Credit standards were relaxed, down-payment requirements lowered. The packaging of these mortgages into "collateralized debt obligations," or CDOs, also encouraged lending. CDOs resemble bonds, with homeowners' monthly payments funneled to investors. CDOs are complex securities.

Payments are split among investors, with the highest returns going to those accepting most of the default risk. The result: Credit flowed freely because a (relatively) small number of investors assumed big risks.

It was a bad gamble. Many subprime mortgages have gone into default.

CDO investors are suffering losses. The credit cycle has reversed:

Investors have retreated; credit standards have tightened; homebuyers are scarcer; housing prices are dropping; it's harder to borrow against homes; consumer spending is weakening. Whether this will cause a recession is unclear.

But it captures a larger dilemma. Capital markets are not just incidental to economic growth. They're a force for both good and ill. The recent financial innovations have made it easier for countries, companies and individuals to borrow and tap investment capital.

Many types of credit (auto loans, business loans) have been "securitized," unlocking new sources of money. New financial institutions have flourished: "hedge funds," pools of capital provided by pension funds and wealthy investors; "private equity" funds, with money from similar sources.

The peril is that so much has changed so quickly that no one knows how the system operates. It often is roulette.

Monday's defensible investment may become Tuesday's silly speculation. Global markets are interconnected, and financial conditions are tightening. Some hedge funds — including foreign funds — have suffered huge losses on U.S. subprime mortgages.

These could harm banks that lent to hedge funds. Up to a point, losses are inevitable and desirable.

They remind investors of risk. But too many losses — too much fear of the unknown — can trigger a chain reaction of selling and credit contraction. This must worry the Federal Reserve and other government central banks.

Boo f*cking hoo for them.

[Vegas]

So I was just talking to a friend here at work. He was telling me that his neighbor is in Orlando trying to get rid of his timeshare. The people he's talking to basically told him that he could get rid of it by paying them $20,000. That's right....pay $20k to get rid of it.

[Jiddy78]

So I was just talking to a friend here at work. He was telling me that his neighbor is in Orlando trying to get rid of his timeshare. The people he's talking to basically told him that he could get rid of it by paying them $20,000. That's right....pay $20k to get rid of it.


There's like a hundred timeshare billboards up the turnpike from my house to Orlando...Anyone owning one better not look to move it for many many years...In the meantime, enjoy that payment month after month after month after month after month...

[Vegas]

There's like a hundred timeshare billboards up the turnpike from my house to Orlando...Anyone owning one better not look to move it for many many years...In the meantime, enjoy that payment month after month after month after month after month...

That's not how I got mine. I only buy resales. Timeshares depreciate 30-50% as soon as they're sold. And I wouldn't make payments on a timeshare. Cash & carry is my middle name.

[Jiddy78]

That's not how I got mine. I only buy resales. Timeshares depreciate 30-50% as soon as they're sold. And I wouldn't make payments on a timeshare. Cash & carry is my middle name.

Timeshares can work...but I prefer the freedom of picking where I stay and I like the fun of planning the vacation...Too restrictive.

[Vegas]

Timeshares can work...but I prefer the freedom of picking where I stay and I like the fun of planning the vacation...Too restrictive.

Trade value. I owned at a place in California for several years and only went there once. I exchanged for places in Hawaii (twice), Oregon, Rhode Island, and got an incredible deal on a couple of cruises. Timeshares are fantastic as long as you aren't the sucker that buys the new place.

[Jiddy78]

Trade value. I owned at a place in California for several years and only went there once. I exchanged for places in Hawaii (twice), Oregon, Rhode Island, and got an incredible deal on a couple of cruises. Timeshares are fantastic as long as you aren't the sucker that buys the new place.

Yeah, but you are in a financial position and, probably, a job that you can walk away from for 3 weeks that won't overburden you upon return...Most aren't in that position...Lifestyle matters.

[LSU]

Yeah, but you are in a financial position and, probably, a job that you can walk away from for 3 weeks that won't overburden you upon return...Most aren't in that position...Lifestyle matters.


That should play in the decision of 'to buy or not to buy' then. I know it doesn't in most cases...

And in this case, lifestyle doesn't matter. Creditstyle does.

[Vegas]

Yeah, but you are in a financial position and, probably, a job that you can walk away from for 3 weeks that won't overburden you upon return...Most aren't in that position...Lifestyle matters.

I have to work ridiculous hours for the weeks prior to and after my vacation. I go to Hawaii for 2 weeks every year. There's no way I could get 3 weeks approved. I have enough trouble with getting 2 weeks.

I had lunch with the boss (wife) today. I was telling her about a cruise that I got an email deal for. It's a 32 day cruise from San Diego to Tahiti. It sounded great, but there's no way I could get that kind of time off.

[Vegas]

That should play in the decision of 'to buy or not to buy' then. I know it doesn't in most cases...

And in this case, lifestyle doesn't matter. Creditstyle does.

Exactly. I attend at least one timeshare presentation every year during my vacation. They spend $250 per couple in advertising expense just to get people to listen to their song & dance. I always tell them where I'm staying, that I'm an owner there, and how much I paid for my timeshare. They generally let me go pretty quickly without having to listen to how low the monthly payments are and how I can't afford not to buy the $45,000 investment.

Then I go eat my free dinner and/or the half price activities for the rest of the time I'm there. Only in America.

[Jiddy78]

I have to work ridiculous hours for the weeks prior to and after my vacation. I go to Hawaii for 2 weeks every year. There's no way I could get 3 weeks approved. I have enough trouble with getting 2 weeks.

I had lunch with the boss (wife) today. I was telling her about a cruise that I got an email deal for. It's a 32 day cruise from San Diego to Tahiti. It sounded great, but there's no way I could get that kind of time off.

That's me...I work in such a small office (Two accountants including me) that I can't just up and leave for long extended periods...BUT, on the flipside, my boss pays me on a % of gross basis...so you can do that math. Pisses wifey off, though, liberal-types don't smile upon the work til you drop approach...So there's a balancing effect...Actually, a pretty positive one...I was working way too much before I met her...

[Jiddy78]

That should play in the decision of 'to buy or not to buy' then. I know it doesn't in most cases...

And in this case, lifestyle doesn't matter. Creditstyle does.

I still liken the fact that I can set my own parameters and pick and choose between hotels on vacation...Some places can really dump out over time...and you never know what kind of steal you might find in the free market while you're timeshare-owning friend is locked in.

1100 bucks for 11 nights on the water in kihei, maui with rental convertible.

A hundred a night? At that pace it would take 39 years for a timeshare to match at full price...You can do that math for a reduced second hand price..

[LSU]

I still liken the fact that I can set my own parameters and pick and choose between hotels on vacation...Some places can really dump out over time...and you never know what kind of steal you might find in the free market while you're timeshare-owning friend is locked in.

1100 bucks for 11 nights on the water in kihei, maui with rental convertible.

A hundred a night? At that pace it would take 39 years for a timeshare to match at full price...You can do that math for a reduced second hand price..



Shit, I can stay a week in Maui for airfare only.

[Vegas]

I still liken the fact that I can set my own parameters and pick and choose between hotels on vacation...Some places can really dump out over time...and you never know what kind of steal you might find in the free market while you're timeshare-owning friend is locked in.

1100 bucks for 11 nights on the water in kihei, maui with rental convertible.

A hundred a night? At that pace it would take 39 years for a timeshare to match at full price...You can do that math for a reduced second hand price..

You're not factoring in the annual fees of the timeshare, which means you'd be required to hold for closer to 100 years to break even.

[Jiddy78]

Shit, I can stay a week in Maui for airfare only.

Yeah, but you don't...Dumb dumb. (Yes, you deserve to be called dumb dumb for that...No need to hit the report button)

[Vegas]

Shit, I can stay a week in Maui for airfare only.

I get my airfare free by using up miles.

[ryr8828]

Shit, I can stay a week in Maui for airfare only.

Wow, you and YOM really are tight.

[LSU]

Yeah, but you don't...Dumb dumb. (Yes, you deserve to be called dumb dumb for that...No need to hit the report button)


Well, you don't take into consideration the factor of the dickhead-in-law...becomes a much less desirable visit.

[LSU]

I get my airfare free by using up miles.

Wife has enough miles for a trip. I don't fly enough.

[LSU]

Wow, you and YOM really are tight.



I thought he was on the main island.

[ryr8828]

I thought he was on the main island.

That makes it less funny.

[Jiddy78]

I thought he was on the main island.

I assume you mean "big island" by "main island"...If that is the case, then no, he's on Oahu.

[LSU]

I assume you mean "big island" by "main island"...If that is the case, then no, he's on Oahu.



The one with Honolulu. I thought the big island was pretty unpopulated, relatively speaking.

I really don't know the islands, just know Maui. So, wherever he is, I'm sure it's not Maui.

[Vegas]

The one with Honolulu. I thought the big island was pretty unpopulated, relatively speaking.

I really don't know the islands, just know Maui. So, wherever he is, I'm sure it's not Maui.

Yom is on Oahu. The big island is sparsely populated compared to the other, you are correct about that. Kauai is my favorite, but Maui is a close second.

[Jiddy78]

Dun nun nun nun nun nuuuuuuunnnnnnnnn


FRAUUUUUDDDD!!!


http://stocks.us.reuters.com/stocks/insiderTrading.asp?symbol=CFC&WTmodLOC=L2-LeftNav-20-InsiderTrading

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=CFC&t=3m&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=

[BoredWithNoSB]

Article By Jidddy, FL

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/esubprime;_ylt=Am3W9jYYo7n6klh2825SYhMDW7oF


The problem I have with them saying they need to teach people a lesson is they are also hurting me, who was a relatively rational buyer. I can afford my 30 year fixed, but a long-term price decline will block me from taking opporutnities where I could increase my GPP.

[Jiddy78]

Here's a funny one...Working on a client today that has a rental eating him alive on, of all streets, albatross...

[Vegas]

Here's a funny one...Working on a client today that has a rental eating him alive on, of all streets, albatross...

There's an instant classic.

[Vegas]

Slumping builder slashes home prices

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/base/news-12/1189658360216280.xml&coll=1

Just a few years ago, Hovnanian Enterprises held lotteries to sell new homes because demand for housing was white-picket-fence hot.

Now, with the residential real estate slump deepening by the month, the largest New Jersey-based homebuilder is holding a fire sale at developments across the country. Prices this weekend will be slashed by up to six figures -- $100,000, $149,000, in some cases $240,000.

It's a sign of just how far the housing market has fallen from the boom years -- and just how desperate homebuilders such as Hovnanian are to move inventory.

"Crazy Eddie is back in the real estate business," said Keith Gumbinger, vice president of HSH Associates, a consumer research firm in Pompton Plains. "Folks who are sitting on the fence right now are waiting for a reason to buy."

Other developers have offered rich incentives, from cars to vacations, to entice buyers during the market's downturn. But housing industry experts say the discounts being offered by Hovnanian are unprecedented.

One homebuilder, Lennar, slapped huge discounts on some of its homes late last year, according to Jeffrey Otteau, president of the Otteau Valuation Group, an East Brunswick real-estate consulting firm. "Other than that, I don't remember anything on this scale," he said.

Hovnanian, based in Red Bank, says it expects hundreds of home buyers to crowd its developments this weekend throughout New Jersey. The so-called "Deal of the Century" sale, which covers 19 states, begins at 9 a.m. Friday and ends Sunday at 9 p.m.

"Our competitors have done this only with some degree of consistency," said Michael Skea, vice president of marketing and sales for K. Hovnanian Homes-Northeast in Edison. "The long and short of it is that folks are looking for homes that are right-priced. Some people will perceive this as a fire sale, but we do not."

RED TAG SALE
Hovnanian is holding what amounts to a weekend red tag sale because the real estate market continues to slump in New Jersey and around the nation. New home sales in the Northeast plunged 24 percent in July, according to the Commerce Department. In New Jersey, the inventory of unsold homes in June soared to a record 72,000, compared with just 39,000 during the same period two years ago.

"The outlook for housing remains poor, with ongoing adverse implications for the rest of the economy," said Charles Lieberman, chief investment officer of Advisors Capital Management, a Paramus money manager.
Hovnanian's fortunes reflect that downturn. The company lost more than $80 million in the quarter ending in July, compared with turning a profit a year earlier, and sales tanked by 27 percent. The company's stock has plunged to about $10 a share, down from $60 early last year.

As an example of how tough the market is, Hovnanian is lopping 25 percent off the price of a Hazeltine model at its Four Seasons at South Knolls development in Jackson Township. The single-family home with 1,788 square feet of space, two bedrooms and two baths will be offered this weekend for $300,501, the company said. The original asking price was slightly more than $400,000.

Not every discount will be so generous. "Incentives at each community will vary, and the incentives on certain model types within the same community may also vary depending upon their stage of construction as well as their location within the community," Skea said.

DEPRESSING AN ENTIRE MARKET
The problem with such massive sales promotions is they could depress the value of other homes sold in recent months.

"It certainly doesn't help home values because it drags down comparable sale prices," said Greg McBride, senior financial analyst for Bankrate.com, which tracks the real estate loan market.

Skea, the Hovnanian vice president, said the company recognizes some recent homebuyers might feel uneasy about the sale. However, most of those buyers probably received some type of incentive as well, he said.

"Those who purchased previously already chose the home and location they wanted," he said. "Those may not have been the same if they'd gotten a 'Deal of the Century' home."

The price cuts will be offered at 17 Hovnanian developments in New Jersey. Details are available at the developer's Web site (www.khov.com).

Home prices are expected to rise an average of 0.5 percent this fall and then retreat by that much during the winter before dropping between 2.5 percent and 4.5 percent next year, according to Barclays Capital Research. The declines will be "driven mainly by an excess supply of homes on the market, a reduction in the availability of mortgage credit" and a fall off in home buying by real estate speculators, the research firm said.

Home prices have declined because inventories of existing homes are at their highest levels since 1991, according to Steven Wood, chief economist for Insight Economics. Sales peaked in the summer of 2005.

July was the 12th consecutive month "that median prices have declined on a year-on-year basis, the longest period since data collection began in 1968," Wood said.

[Jiddy78]

"Those who purchased previously already chose the home and location they wanted," he said. "Those may not have been the same if they'd gotten a 'Deal of the Century' home."

"Ummmm...This looks like a crackhouse..."

"You get what you pay for kid."

"But I paid a half million dollars"

"Hello, McFly, that's Starbucks' price target for a cup of coffee in 5 years...Get with the program slappy"

[Vegas]

So my wife went for a walk yesterday and came back with two brochures for houses. One was listed at $10.8 million and the other at $2.4 million. I said I wasn't interested in either.

[Jiddy78]

So my wife went for a walk yesterday and came back with two brochures for houses. One was listed at $10.8 million and the other at $2.4 million. I said I wasn't interested in either.

10.8 million? That's not a house...That's an expletive symbol. Do you at least get a free third world country with the purchase?

[Vegas]

10.8 million? That's not a house...That's an expletive symbol.

3292 square feet, with a 1498 square foot guest house. The biggie is 100 feet of ocean frontage.

If you aren't convinced yet, they are including 4 HD flat panel TVs each with DVR.

[Jiddy78]

3292 square feet, with a 1498 square foot guest house. The biggie is 100 feet of ocean frontage.

If you aren't convinced yet, they are including 4 HD flat panel TVs each with DVR.

Why do I have the feeling half of those tv's are in the bathrooms?

Just say no man. Just say no.

[Vegas]

Why do I have the feeling half of those tv's are in the bathrooms?

Just say no man. Just say no.

I already said no. I suspect is just a ploy to ease me into buying a condo in Las Vegas at a "bargain" price in comparison.

[Jiddy78]

I already said no. I suspect is just a ploy to ease me into buying a condo in Las Vegas at a "bargain" price in comparison.

I am slowly coming to the conclusion that women are the root of every economic evil I b*tch about.

Condos are the worst...WORST investment in this environment...Dues suck you dry...You get slapped with just as much tax as a house and you have a building that only gets older by the minute with no land value under it...

You won't recoup your purchase price for a decade, maybe more, in your area, much less the closing costs, maintenance etc etc...

Of course, rule #1 is if you can do it without financially killing yourself and it makes wifey happy, then protest, if she persists and you enter the "wifey danger zone," b*tch, if she STILL persists...Get the vasoline.

[Vegas]

I am slowly coming to the conclusion that women are the root of every economic evil I b*tch about.

Condos are the worst...WORST investment in this environment...Dues suck you dry...You get slapped with just as much tax as a house and you have a building that only gets older by the minute with no land value under it...

You won't recoup your purchase price for a decade, maybe more, in your area, much less the closing costs, maintenance etc etc...

Of course, rule #1 is if you can do it without financially killing yourself and it makes wifey happy, then protest, if she persists and you enter the "wifey danger zone," b*tch, if she STILL persists...Get the vasoline.

The monthly fees at the place where the boss wants to buy run $1100 a month. Keep in mind that most owners don't live in their condo. It's a secondary home.

I just heard about a new housing project behind our timeshare resort. They are selling lots starting at $1.4 million. They won't even have ocean view.

[Jiddy78]

The monthly fees at the place where the boss wants to buy run $1100 a month. Keep in mind that most owners don't live in their condo. It's a secondary home.

I just heard about a new housing project behind our timeshare resort. They are selling lots starting at $1.4 million. They won't even have ocean view.


That's even more dangerous for your value...Those are the guys that will eat a couple hundred grand and not even blink, and a half mill will be a mosquito bite.

[Vegas]

So, Jiddy we said goodbye to the Dow 13,000 level as you predicted.

[Jiddy78]

So, Jiddy we said goodbye to the Dow 13,000 level as you predicted.

#1 More important than anything in that entire conversation is my getting you to speak in an absolute.

#2 You are in the wrong thread.


But since we're here...I might as well address something negadelphianish:

Population.

Is it me, or does the population boom seem somewhat farcical? I know one....ONE...couple who has more than 2 children. I'd say that a couple having more than 2 children is pretty rare nowadays....Now correct me if I'm wrong, but if you subtract 2 and add 2 or less.........

I guess we could claim the immigrants...I guess. But how many people come here and buy a half million dollar home???

Something is amiss.

[BoredWithNoSB]

#1 More important than anything in that entire conversation is my getting you to speak in an absolute.

#2 You are in the wrong thread.


But since we're here...I might as well address something negadelphianish:

Population.

Is it me, or does the population boom seem somewhat farcical? I know one....ONE...couple who has more than 2 children. I'd say that a couple having more than 2 children is pretty rare nowadays....Now correct me if I'm wrong, but if you subtract 2 and add 2 or less.........

I guess we could claim the immigrants...I guess. But how many people come here and buy a half million dollar home???

Something is amiss.

The whole population decline thing is pretty scary.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/articles/2006/07/16/population_decline/

If you look at this population of pretty much every economically viable country is expected to decline. Russia will have a smaller population than California in the next two decades.

Meanwhile population is rising in Central America, Africa, and everywhere else you think of as poor and non-economically viable. At some point either the rich people need to produce more babies or the poor people need to become rich. Otherwise, I'm confused as to what will happen.

[Jiddy78]

The whole population decline thing is pretty scary.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/articles/2006/07/16/population_decline/

If you look at this population of pretty much every economically viable country is expected to decline. Russia will have a smaller population than California in the next two decades.

Meanwhile population is rising in Central America, Africa, and everywhere else you think of as poor and non-economically viable. At some point either the rich people need to produce more babies or the poor people need to become rich. Otherwise, I'm confused as to what will happen.

Interesting...Is there any info on the US estimated population?

[Vegas]

How to lose your home in a few easy steps

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21082646/

SAN DIEGO - Delia Toothman once pursued the American dream of owning her own home. Now, she is living the American nightmare.

In just three years Toothman, 30, a former Navy officer and bioscience technician in San Diego, went from $18,000 in savings to $16,000 in credit-card debt. She once lived in a home she co-owned; now she lives in her father's garage.

Toothman is just one of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of Americans who find themselves homeless and broke in the aftermath of the housing bust. Hers is a cautionary tale of hard-working and well-intentioned young woman who got swept up in the real estate madness of Southern California, helped along by what she describes as bad advice from industry professionals.

“I feel like my life is ruined,” she said in an interview, wiping away tears. “I only wanted a house. I wanted my own property."
Toothman's story began when she left the Navy in 2004 and returned to San Diego at what turned out to be the peak of the city's real estate boom. By mid-2004 the median price of a home in the metro area had risen to $520,000, up 30 percent from a year earlier. Condo prices also were up 30 percent year-over-year to a median of $368,000.

Fearful of missing out, she and her younger sister decided to buy a home together. “We just wanted to get a piece of land, something we could own, so we weren’t paying rent; we were buying,” said Toothman.

While Toothman was only qualified to buy a $360,000 home, Toothman's agent showed her properties in the $400,000 range. Her mortgage broker urged her to finance 100 percent of the purchase price with interest-only loans that would adjust in two years.

Any talk of a housing bubble was dismissed.

“I got pressure from the real estate agent and officer,” Toothman said. “The loan officer was saying, 'Oh, prices always rise on houses.' ... The thing, is get into the house and I can always refinance you after that into another loan."
“I was like, ‘I don’t know,’ but he kept on saying, ‘If you’re renting, you’re losing this much money, but the way housing prices are going up, it’s really a good investment and you get your money back in taxes,’” recalls Toothman. “I was convinced it was a good thing.”

Toothman was hardly alone.

“It’s the American dream and they got caught up in it,” said Gary Aguilar, a vice president at Springboard Non-profit Consumer Credit Management, an advisory agency based in Riverside, Calif. “Even if it didn’t make sense, a lot of people just passed ‘Go’ and went straight to the dream home.”

Now Springboard and similar agencies are being deluged with phone calls from desperate owners trying to save their homes or stave off bankruptcy.

At Springboard, representatives handled 11,000 phone calls in August, up from about 2,000 a month last year, said Aguilar.

Toothman ended up buying a $415,000 condo in June 2004. The mortgage was entirely under her name, since her sister could not qualify. But the two agreed to split the monthly payments of $2,400.
For a year, Toothman struggled with her half of the payment. Her monthly take-home pay was $2,000. She started eating at her savings to pay the mortgage.

Toothman tried to refinance the loan to lower the monthly payment, but she was unable to qualify.

In late 2005, Toothman decided to sell. But prices were already falling, and by early 2006, the condo was worth less than the outstanding balance of the mortgage, putting her "under water." Toothman’s real estate agent found a buyer who offered $350,000 – $65,000 less than what was owed.
The only way she could sell was if the two lenders agreed to a "short sale" — taking less money than what they were owed. The principal lender, Countrywide, agreed, but Wells Fargo, which held a second loan worth $82,000 rejected the terms because the lender would have gotten only $10,000.

Then the agent found another buyer, who also offered $350,000. This time, Countrywide said yes if Toothman would come up with another $10,000 to pay Wells Fargo more. But Wells Fargo declined the offer.

“They figured I would make more money eventually, and they could take it out of me,” said Toothman, “because if they agreed to a short sale, then they had no (legal) recourse to come after me for the $82,000.”
Executives from Wells Fargo and Countrywide did not return several messages seeking comment.

Toothman’s nightmare got worse. In July 2006, the monthly payment on the two loans jumped nearly 50 percent to $3,600. For two months, Toothman maxed out her credit cards to meet the payments. The sisters planned to keep making the monthly payments until a sale went through.

But after two months, “I couldn’t pay my bills,” said Toothman. “I’m like, ‘Do I stop paying my other loans, my other credit cards, everything else?’ I just started paying my other bills instead of my mortgage, because it was impossible, it was just too much.”

In March of this year, Toothman lost the house in foreclosure, and, like many others, she now is considering bankruptcy.

Pacific Law Center, one of the biggest bankruptcy law firms in San Diego, handled almost 1,000 such cases in the first eight months of the year, up from 626 in all of 2006.
Danielle Donovan, a broker at Clarion Mortgage who has been in the industry for 27 years, said attitudes changed around 2000 when mortgage lenders began offering "subprime" loans to borrowers with less-than-stellar credit as home prices were soaring. “People stopped being interested in buying homes and more in having an investment,” she said.

Now thousands of Americans are facing the same nightmare as Toothman.

“If they don’t have the wherewithal to keep the home, it’s a matter of how are you going to support the family,” said credit counselor Aguilar.

Many are simply choosing to walk out on their mortgages. More people filing bankruptcy these days have perfect credit, zero consumer debt and no missed house payments, said Don Bokovoy, supervising attorney of Pacific Law Center. They are filing bankruptcy because they cannot afford impending higher payments on adjustable mortgages.
For many homeowners, said mortgage broker Donovan, “The question is ‘How far do I wreck myself? Do I make myself penniless and then lose the house? Or do I just walk away now and have something to start over?’”

For Toothman, the nightmare continues. She cannot qualify for a car loan. Her credit card interest rates jumped from 5 percent to 22 percent, due to missed payments while juggling mortgage bills. She wonders who will date a woman with $82,000 in debt.

“I feel burned,” she said. “I’ve always been one who paid the bills on time. I always did things the right way. If they had counseled me (correctly), I could’ve made my payments.”

[Vegas]

Patrick to press mortgage companies

http://www.boston.com/realestate/news/articles/2007/10/15/patrick_to_press_mortgage_companies/

Governor Deval Patrick plans to introduce an ambitious program today to assist Massachusetts communities in preventing foreclosures by pressing lenders to accept losses on their mortgages so that homeowners are able to sell their properties and pay off smaller loan balances.
The initiative would start with a pilot program in cities with the highest incidence of foreclosures, including Lawrence and Springfield, where delinquent borrowers with subprime mortgages are prevalent. Other cities being considered are Boston, Brockton, New Bedford, and Worcester.

"We're identifying where the maximum need is," said an administration official briefed on the plan, who did not want to be identified prior to the governor's official announcement. "We want to stabilize these neighborhoods, and we need the lenders to be part of the solution."

In one key part of the plan, the state would press lenders to agree to a "short sale" with homeowners late on their monthly payments. In a short sale, lenders accept less than the full value of the loan, so that the homeowner can sell the house at today's market price - typically less than he or she paid for it - and use the proceeds to pay off the smaller loan balance. Short sales are a way for borrowers to prevent foreclosure.

Further details of the governor's plan will be released later this week, administration sources said. But Patrick is expected to discuss it at hearings today sponsored by Representative Barney Frank, chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, at Roxbury Community College. The hearings will examine charges of discriminatory lending in the nation's subprime lending industry.
Mayor Thomas M. Menino will testify at the hearing that 75 percent of Boston's foreclosures are in four communities with large minority populations in Dorchester, Roxbury, Mattapan, and Hyde Park, said his spokeswoman, Dorothy Joyce.

The administration is trying to roll out the program as the number of subprime borrowers facing an increase in their monthly payments increases. Subprime mortgages became popular during the housing boom because they offered a below-market interest rate for the first two years of the loan. After that, the rate and the payments increase, often by hundreds of dollars a month.

Between now and the end of 2008, First American LoanPerformance, a California business research firm, estimated that about 35,000 Massachusetts homeowners are bracing for increases in their monthly payments.

"We want to very quickly get in front of those," another administration official said.

But Thomas Callahan, executive director of the Massachusetts Association for Affordable Housing, which provides mortgages to homebuyers with modest incomes, said the administration does not have leverage, legally, to force lenders to cooperate. He said most subprime lenders are out-of-state companies that are not regulated by the state. While Callahan supports the plan, it "is getting very limited cooperation from the lenders," he said.

Administration officials said that some lenders are participating. The program caps more than two months of talks between the state Department of Housing and Economic Development and some of the nation's largest lenders, including Wells Fargo amp; Co., Countrywide Financial Corp., Citi, J.P. Morgan Chase, and HSBC, the officials said. Charles Nilsen, a board member for the Massachusetts Mortgage Bankers Association, said lenders are wary of the administration's program. They already have a financial incentive to resolve problem loans, he said, because they do not want to bear the steep expense of a foreclosure. "We're fearful in industry if the government gets a little too heavy-handed," Nilsen said. Under the plan, lenders would have to respond quickly to borrowers who contact them because they cannot pay their mortgage. If a lender is unwilling or unable to reduce a customer's payments to make a loan affordable, it would immediately refer the borrower to housing counselors or to state lending programs, the officials said. In July, for example, the Massachusetts Housing Finance Agency said it would provide $250 million to refinance borrowers up to 60 days late on their mortgage payments who have credit scores of 560 or higher. But often subprime borrowers don't qualify, because their credit scores plunge as they fall behind on their payments. The administration said lenders should refer borrowers to MassHousing before that happens. The Department of Housing also would link delinquent borrowers with prospective buyers interested in a short sale. They could do so through local housing groups that provide mortgage assistance to homebuyers with modest incomes, of the officials said. Juan Ortega, a real estate agent in Lawrence, said he arranged some short sales in his city, including one house that sold for $100,000 less than its value at the market peak. "There are plenty of buyers who want to buy those properties," he said.

[Jiddy78]

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071016/paulson_housing.html

Awwww...Poor babies....

[Vegas]

Mortgage company workers charged in scam

http://www.newsday.com/business/ny-nyhome165414426oct16,0,4475856.story?coll=ny_home_ rail_headlines

Two mortgage company employees were arrested yesterday for their role in a multimillion-dollar mortgage and identity theft scam in Queens and Long Island, police sources said.

Arrests, the sources said, are likely to continue, with police and prosecutors expected to allege that hundreds of homes were purchased under false pretenses, with many victims facing potential financial ruin because their personal information had been stolen and used to buy several homes.

One victim, a $30,000-a-year waiter, was stunned to find out he owned three homes and owed $1.3 million in mortgages for which he never applied, sources said.
Police know of two dozen victims so far, but the sources said more are likely to come forward.

"What we have right now is just the tip of the iceberg," said Herd Waichman, whose Great Neck firm, Parker, Waichman, Alonso LLP., has interviewed a number of people who claim to have been ripped off. "It's not a pretty picture."

Most of the known victims are from Jackson Heights. One is from the Bronx, and Nassau and Suffolk residents were also victimized. The FBI is also investigating, the sources said.

At the center of the probe is Griffin Mortgage Co., with offices in Jackson Heights, Jamaica and Garden City. Officials with the company could not be reached.

Griffin director and business manager, Jacob Milton, 41, is a Bangladeshi immigrant who has a cable talk show. On the wall of the Jackson Heights office are several pictures of him with Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton and President Bill Clinton.

Milton was arrested yesterday at the Queens courthouse, where he had appeared in a pending case, separate from the current investigation, in which he is accused of threatening a client who had filed a lawsuit against him.

Milton, of Port Washington, said nothing to police, according to Lt. Richard Rudolph of the 115th Precinct detective squad. His sister, Nira Niru, who is 38 and lives with him, was also arrested. She works as a secretary at Griffin Mortgage.

Both face charges of grand larceny, identity theft and scheme to defraud.

According to Rudolph, the case dates to July, when six people showed up at the precinct station house to complain that someone had opened up a Home Depot account in their name.

The subsequent investigation uncovered a common thread - all six victims had applied for mortgages at Griffin, Rudolph said.

By early last night, Rudolph said, three police vans had been filled with documents and about 10 computers that were seized from Griffin's Jackson Heights office, plus residences that Milton owns on Denman Street in Elmhurst and on Fifth Street in Deer Park.

One victim, Mohammed Golam, 42, of Cypress Hills, said he "trusted Milton like a brother," but that Milton scammed him, first by getting him a mortgage nearly $100,000 more than he was supposed to buy the house for, then by arranging for a refinancing in which Milton kept $40,000 of the money.

"I have a house, but I have trouble," said Golam. "I pay my mortgage, then I buy food. But I have no money for anything else. Sometimes I don't even have money for food."

Meanwhile Suffolk police arrested Noor Mohammed, 44, who lives at the 8 North 5th St., Deer Park, charging him with second-degree grand larceny.

Det. Sgt. Stephen Jensen, commanding officer of the Suffolk identity theft unit, said Mohammed was involved in an Internet fraudulent stock scheme aimed at netting about $100,000. Jensen said the Suffolk investigation is ongoing.

[Jiddy78]

The ratio of bad to good housing news is sitting approximately at 150,000 to 1.


STILL not time to buy in my area IMO....More downward damage looming.


That says a lot, to me at least.

[Vegas]

Countrywide to Refinance Up to $16 Billion of Loans

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=agNUe.4oR6mc&refer=worldwide

Oct. 23 (Bloomberg) -- Countrywide Financial Corp., the biggest U.S. mortgage lender, will make it easier for customers to keep their homes by changing the terms on $16 billion of adjustable-rate mortgages.

About 52,000 customers with subprime loans can refinance into prime or government-backed mortgages through next year, the Calabasas, California-based company said today in a statement. Such loans usually have lower rates. Another 30,000 who may miss payments, or are already late, will get more affordable terms.

Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson last week called the housing slump ``the most significant current risk to our economy'' and urged lenders to modify more loans. Countrywide, which funded more than 1.8 million mortgages this year, has been criticized by housing advocates who say the company has done little to stem record U.S. foreclosures.

``Lending has never been an altruistic business, but having lots of failed transactions on your books is never good,'' said Keith Gumbinger, vice president at HSH Associates, a mortgage research firm in Pompton Plains, New Jersey. While Countrywide will make less money, the modified mortgages are less likely to fail entirely, he said.

Countrywide fell 65 cents, or 4.2 percent, to $15.03 in 3:41 p.m. New York Stock Exchange composite trading. The stock has declined 65 percent this year.

``None of our subprime borrowers that have demonstrated the ability to make payments should lose their home to foreclosure solely as a result of a rate reset,'' David Sambol, the company's president and chief operating officer, said in the statement.

Setting Standards

The program may cloud earnings comparisons, said a note by analyst Stuart Plesser at Standard & Poor's, who rates the shares ''hold.'' Charge-offs and late loans will probably fall below expected levels in early periods and rise later if borrowers still can't keep up with the new terms, he said.

Overdue loans, measured as a percentage of unpaid principal, increased to 5.85 percent in September from 4.04 percent a year earlier, the company said Oct. 11. Foreclosures climbed to 1.27 percent from 0.51 percent. The data cover Countrywide's servicing business, which does billing and collections.

``This is a big step,'' said Bruce Marks, chief executive officer of Neighborhood Assistance Corporation of America, after the company's plan was announced. ``Countrywide sets the standard for servicing and how lending gets done.'' The Boston-based advocacy group has demanded Countrywide make loan modifications easier. Marks praised the company's willingness to cut interest rates without charging a penalty fee.

A call to Countrywide's media relations office wasn't immediately returned.

Refinancing Plans

The lender's plan, which includes creating a special unit to contact borrowers, lags behind Washington Mutual Inc., the biggest U.S. savings and loan. Seattle-based WaMu promised $2 billion in April to refinance subprime loans at discounted rates, and offered a traditional 30-year fixed-rate loan. The same month, New York-based Bear Stearns Cos. set up a loan modification team at its EMC Mortgage lending unit dubbed the ``Mod Squad'' to help borrowers avoid foreclosure.

``Countrywide's announcement to modify some loans is a welcome, if late, decision,'' Senate Banking Committee Chairman Chris Dodd said in a statement. ``However, this problem reaches far beyond the 82,000 borrowers they have agreed to assist.''

About 100,000 U.S. subprime mortgages per month will reset to higher rates for the first time during the next two years, according to analysts at UBS AG.

Loans Modified

One percent of U.S. subprime mortgages with interest rates that began to adjust in January, April and July were modified to help homeowners avoid default, according to a study released last month by Moody's Investors Service. The amount isn't enough to make a meaningful cut in impending losses, Moody's said.

Subprime mortgages go to borrowers with weak or incomplete credit histories. They made up about 20 percent of home loans issued last year and about 11 percent in the first half of this year, according to Inside Mortgage Finance, an industry newsletter.

Overdue payments on subprime mortgages rose to the highest level in five years in the second quarter, according to the Mortgage Bankers Association. Subprime borrowers have a higher risk of default because some adjustable subprime loans offered below-market ``teaser'' rates in the early years. Payments can double or triple after the teaser rate expires.

Fewer Lenders

While borrowers in 2005 and 2006 counted on refinancing before the teaser rate expired, home prices have fallen the most in 16 years during the current housing slump. That has pushed the value of some homes below the amount of the mortgage, making them ineligible to refinance, and some of the nation's biggest subprime home lenders including New Century Financial Corp. have gone bankrupt or left the business.

Countrywide's program shifts shaky loans to the public sector by transferring mortgages to government-backed lenders such as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, said Janet Tavakoli, president of Tavakoli Structured Finance Inc., a Chicago consulting firm.

``I don't see why Fannie and Freddie are bailing out Countrywide, which needs to own up to the magnitude of the problem,'' Tavakoli said. ``None of us wants to see disaster in the housing market, but these losses should be pushed back to investors and those who are holding the mortgages.''

The Securities and Exchange Commission has opened an informal inquiry into stock sales by Countrywide Chief Executive Officer Angelo Mozilo as the price was sliding, a person familiar with the matter told Bloomberg News Oct. 17.

Regulators should have pushed for his ouster, Tavakoli said.

``I am astonished that Mozilo is still in the CEO's chair,'' she said.

[BoredWithNoSB]

Ouch

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Banking/HomebuyingGuide/HousingHorrorCouldHangAroundForYears.aspx

Talks about how the market in Texas took 14 years to go from peak to trough back up to the original peak. Give examples in LA & Boston of over 10 years too.

So, peak was my clsoing date in October of 2005. 14 years from now means we still have 12 years of this crap left tioll I can sell my place for what I bought it for. Not going to be staying that long.

[Jiddy78]

Ouch

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Banking/HomebuyingGuide/HousingHorrorCouldHangAroundForYears.aspx

Talks about how the market in Texas took 14 years to go from peak to trough back up to the original peak. Give examples in LA & Boston of over 10 years too.

So, peak was my clsoing date in October of 2005. 14 years from now means we still have 12 years of this crap left tioll I can sell my place for what I bought it for. Not going to be staying that long.

I'm not moving for many, many, MANY years....I can tell you this.

[Vegas]

New Home Sales Rebound in September

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071025/economy.html?.v=15

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Sales of new homes posted an unexpected gain in September although the improvement came after sales had fallen to the slowest pace in more than a decade.

The Commerce Department reported Thursday that sales of new homes rose by 4.8 percent last month to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 770,000 units. That level of activity was still 23.3 percent below a year ago, indicating that housing remains in a steep downturn.
Analysts had been expecting sales would fall by 2.5 percent last month from an August sales pace that had originally been reported as 795,000 homes. However, that figure was revised sharply lower in the new report to show a sales rate of just 735,000 in August, the slowest sales pace in 11 years.

Meanwhile, orders for big-ticket manufactured goods dropped an unexpected 1.7 percent last month following an even bigger 5.3 percent plunge in August. The first back-to-back declines in factory orders in more than a year raised new worries about how much harm would be inflicted on the economy from a severe housing slump and credit crunch.

In a third report, the Labor Department said that the number of newly laid off workers filing claims for unemployment benefits fell by 8,000 last week to 331,000.

The report on home sales showed that the median new home price in September -- the point where half the homes sold for more and half for less -- rose to $238,000, up 2.5 percent from August, which had seen prices fall to the lowest level in nearly a year.

The rebound in home sales was led by a 37.7 percent surge in the West. Sales were also up 0.5 percent in the South. But sales of new homes fell by 19.5 percent in the Midwest and 6.6 percent in the Northeast.

The September drop in orders for durable goods reflected weakness in such areas as autos, fabricated metals, computers and electronics products, and electrical appliances.

That decline followed several other reports showing economic weakness, including continued steep slides in sales of existing homes and reports from banks and investment houses that they were having to take big write-offs due to losses in such areas as mortgage-backed securities.

Losses that began in investments on subprime mortgages, where deliquency rates are soaring, had caused a severe credit crunch in August as the market for many kinds of investments nearly dried up.

The concern is that if the economic disruptions become serious enough, they could drag down overall economic growth, which has already slowed under the impact of the steep downturn in housing.

Many analysts, however, believe the economy will still be able to avoid an outright recession because the Federal Reserve, which cut a key interest rate for the first time in four years, will keep cutting rates to stimulate economic growth. The Fed meets again next week.

In a new report released Thursday, the congressional Joint Economic Committee estimated that 2 million subprime mortgages could go into foreclosure over the next 18 months as initially low introductory rates reset at much higher levels. The JEC report said that states will lose $917 million in property tax revenue as housing values are depressed by the wave of foreclosures.

"State by state, the economic costs from the subprime debacle are shockingly high," Sen. Charles Schumer, chairman of the JEC said in a statement. "From New York to California, we are headed for billions in lost wealth, property values and tax revenues."

Schumer called on the Bush administration to more more aggressively to help families find ways to avoid going into default on their home loans.

The report on durable goods showed that orders for transportation equipment fell by 6.3 percent last month after an even bigger 12.3 percent fall in August.

Demand for commercial aircraft did rebound, rising by 18.2 percent in September after a 40.2 percent plunge in August as demand picked up at aircraft-maker Boeing Co.

But orders for autos fell by 2.9 percent after an even bigger 8.2 percent drop in August, reflecting the continuing troubles for domestic automakers struggling with foreign competition and consumers' shift away from gas-guzzling vehicles.

Orders for military aircraft were also down a sharp 37.3 percent in September after having surged in August.

Excluding transportation, orders for durable goods would have risen by 0.3 percent following a 1.8 percent drop in orders outside of transportation in August.

[Vegas]

This is to be avoided in your golden years:

http://www.wallacesgardencenter.com/images/departments/dav-dogfood1.jpg

[Jiddy78]

This is to be avoided in your golden years:

http://www.wallacesgardencenter.com/images/departments/dav-dogfood1.jpg


If you are a guy that ever has stated "Nobody every pays off their mortgage"...then you might want to just apply at pet supermarket now for the discounts...

[Vegas]

If you are a guy that ever has stated "Nobody every pays off their mortgage"...then you might want to just apply at pet supermarket now for the discounts...

I don't believe in not paying off the mortgage.

[Jiddy78]

I don't believe in not paying off the mortgage.

This isn't "Where's Vegas"...This is "Negadelphian." I'm speaking in general.

[Vegas]

This isn't "Where's Vegas"...This is "Negadelphian." I'm speaking in general.

OK.

[Jiddy78]

OK.

Is that one of those obnoxious ok's...Like Ooooookay...Or is that just a chill ok...Like "ok man...cool" ?

I'm starting my *looks for ryr* Xmas list.

[Vegas]

Is that one of those obnoxious ok's...Like Ooooookay...Or is that just a chill ok...Like "ok man...cool" ?

I'm starting my *looks for ryr* Xmas list.

It's more of the "ok man...cool" variety.

[Jiddy78]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/11/business/11angelo.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin

At a conference sponsored by the Milken Institute about two weeks ago, for example, he explained that borrowers forced lenders like Countrywide to lower their mortgage standards.


“No one, including Mr. Mozilo, could have foreseen the unprecedented combination of events that led to the problems borrowers, lenders and investors face with many of these loans today,” said Rick Simon, a Countrywide spokesman.

Dance Babylonian, Dance.

[Vegas]

http://www.reuters.com/article/inDepthNews/idUSN1246626320071113?feedType=RSS&feedName=inDepthNews&rpc=22&sp=true

At first glance, the 43-story building in Miami's international banking district seems little different from other high-rise condominiums overlooking the turquoise waters of Biscayne Bay.

But the 643-unit condo known as the Club at Brickell is a leader in mortgage foreclosures and it appears also to stand at ground zero in a blizzard of fraud that may lie behind many of the failed loans threatening to bury the U.S. property market.

[Vegas]

Is this the reason why Florida property values are dropping??

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071127/us_nm/usa_bombs_dc

[BoredWithNoSB]

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/071130/usa_subprime_treasury.html?.v=2

I just threw up a little after reading this. Personal responsibility is a thing of the past.

[BoredWithNoSB]

I feel I was tricked in to my 30 year fixed by a shady lender. Can I go back retroactively and change it to a 3 year ARM and then get this bailout plan?

[Jiddy78]

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/071130/usa_subprime_treasury.html?.v=2

I just threw up a little after reading this. Personal responsibility is a thing of the past.

I would love to ask for a refund on the difference of interest between my fixed rate and a subprime rate and see what my bank says...since they want to set precedents...Possibly litigation for unfair business practices? Somehow I don't think the Babylonian judge would rule in my favor....Caveat emptor extends beyond just the walls and paint...........unless you buy a mansion with nothing down and have no intent to pay if back, of course.

[BoredWithNoSB]

I would love to ask for a refund on the difference of interest between my fixed rate and a subprime rate and see what my bank says...since they want to set precedents...Possibly litigation for unfair business practices? Somehow I don't think the Babylonian judge would rule in my favor....Caveat emptor extends beyond just the walls and paint...........unless you buy a mansion with nothing down and have no intent to pay if back, of course.

OK, see if you can sell Kobe on starting up the class action papers.

[Vegas]

Record home foreclosures cause snow removal problems

http://kstp.com/article/stories/S274209.shtml?cat=89

The snow brings a new problem with the high number of foreclosures in the Twin Cities. All those empty homes mean no one is around to clear the sidewalks.

Kathy Nitschke shovels out her own property, but sees that no one is looking after the vacant home in her Minneapolis neighborhood.

"A lot of traffic through here, so it's unfortunate when they don't clean things up," said Nitschke.

In Minneapolis, there are 50 percent more homes in foreclosures this year than last. In St. Paul, there are four times more vacant homes than in 2006.

It means more work for the city--both Minneapolis and St. Paul have a rule, stating snow must be cleared within 24 hours.

If a sidewalk stays covered in snow for more than a day, a letter is mailed to the address. If nothing happens, city crews come and do the work. The city of St. Paul charges $160 an hour, while Minneapolis charges $300 an hour—plus a $103 citation.

"We only have limited resources to do the work," said Minneapolis city spokesman Mike Kennedy.

If there are no homeowners to pay the snow removal costs, it will be forwarded to the bank that owns the foreclosed home.

The city of Minneapolis told 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS it answered more than 100 calls reporting snow-covered sidewalks on Monday alone.

[swordfish]

OMG snow on the sidewalk!!!!!
Better call in the national guard.

[Jiddy78]

OMG snow on the sidewalk!!!!!
Better call in the national guard.

With the public sector, we'll probably chop a year off their retirement accrual necessary for those individuals who choose to shovel snow. I mean, they had to shovel snow! :eek: :rolleyes:

[Vegas]

Americans criticize subprime plan from all sides

http://today.reuters.com/news/articleinvesting.aspx?type=bondsNews&storyID=2007-12-06T231210Z_01_N06254761_RTRIDST_0_USA-SUBPRIME-HOMEOWNERS-UPDATE-1.XML

Americans criticized a White House plan to help troubled homeowners as both too little and too much on Thursday, split over whether borrowers and lenders should be rescued in a bid to avert a U.S. recession.

"It's not the government's problem. People got into this with the help of the banks and they overbought, most likely, and now we're seeing the bailout," said Gene Kaberline, 57, a Republican who has just moved to Iowa from California.

But Democrat Sue Repplinger, 66, who worked years ago in the real estate industry but is now retired, said the plan unveiled by President George W. Bush came too late for many borrowers whose homes have already been foreclosed.

"Those who played by the rules who have already lost their homes, what about them?" asked Repplinger. "We need a broader package than this. This is affecting the entire economy."

The government's plan, worked out with private lenders, would allow some borrowers with interest rates that are slated to rise sharply in the coming months to either refinance the loan or have their current rate frozen for five years.

But because the program is designed to help only those whose mortgage rates are set to adjust after Jan. 1 -- and will not be available to those who have already fallen behind on their payments -- some homeowners will be left out.
"I was expecting a broader outreach. Why can't the plan extend out to people like me?" asked Maryanne Hernandez, who bought her home in southern California in 2003 with an adjustable rate, sub-prime mortgage.

Hernandez and her husband, who have two children, were left scrambling when their adjustable rate began rising in 2006, They are now four months behind in payments and their neighborhood is full of foreclosed homes.

"A lot of people will benefit from the plan but it won't help everybody that needs help. It won't help me," she said.

FEELING MISLED

California single mother Maricela Vargas, 41, also won't qualify. She is one of many borrowers who feel they were misled by lenders into signing unfair loans.

"There are a lot of women like me who trusted people to do this paperwork, people that seemed to be honest. They charged more than they should. It's my fault, but it's not all my fault," said Vargas, who is $9,000 behind in payments.

"I've been making calls for months, I called here, I called there. No one knows how to help."

The timing of Bush's announcement, which comes less than a month before the midwestern state of Iowa kicks off voting for the November 2008 presidential election, was also criticized.
University of Maryland School of Business analyst Peter Morici said the aid program only delays inevitable pain.

"Freezing adjustable mortgages at teaser rates will only push the problem to the next president," Morici said.

Supporters of the plan say that without help for troubled homeowners there will be a knock-on effect hitting every part of the economy, from consumer spending to job losses.

But others said the program goes too far, rewarding irresponsible borrowers and lenders who got greedy during the five-year housing boom that ended in 2005.

Phoenix dentist Lawrence Freedman, 45, had a mixed view of the package, which he said would only "support a system that clearly wasn't working."

"It will probably ease the carnage, but was it a smart move? Absolutely not. I think the chips should have been left to fall where they may."

Kansas mother of three Becca Dopheide, was also skeptical, saying some borrowers deserved the help but others did not.

"People go into loans with variable interest rates and balloons and all that stuff ... but they don't worry about it because they just want what they want," said Dopheide, 39.

"That bothers me that they're getting a bailout. It isn't going to help enough people and isn't going to help the right people." (Additional reporting by Dana Ford in Los Angeles, Carey Gillam in Kansas City, Tim Gaynor in Phoenix and Adriana Garcia and Jeremy Pelofsky in Washington, editing by Chris Wilson)

[Vegas]

Trade group lifts outlook for 2008 home sales, insists US housing market is stabilizing

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071210/housing_forecast_realtors.html

Bucking conventional wisdom, a trade group for real-estate agents on Monday said the battered housing market is on the verge of stabilizing and inched-up its outlook for 2007 and 2008 home sales.
The revised monthly forecast from the National Association of Realtors, which followed nine straight months of downward revisions, calls for U.S. existing home sales to fall 12.5 percent this year to 5.67 million -- the lowest level since 2002. Last month, the association predicted 5.66 million existing homes would be sold this year, down from 6.48 million last year.

The Realtors' group also forecast sales will rise slightly in 2008 to 5.7 million, up from last month's prediction of 5.69 million.

Numerous other economists, however, are far less optimistic than the trade group. They predict weak sales and falling prices through next year and beyond and emphasize that those problems could worsen if the economy sinks into a recession.

Patrick Newport, an economist at Global Insight, forecasts that home sales will drop from 5.66 million this year to 4.7 million in 2008 -- 1 million fewer home sales than the real estate group's forecast.

"With the economy and job growth slowing...it is hard to believe that we have hit bottom," Newport said in a note to clients Monday. "Our view is that prices need to drop further, and that housing activity will hit bottom about the middle of 2008."

Joel Naroff, chief economist for Commerce Bank, said the U.S. is 12 to 18 months away from a "normal housing market" in which sales are growing and prices are rising or stable. Furthermore, he said the trade group's 0.2 percent revision to its sales forecast should be taken with a grain of salt, given the difficulty of projecting with any certainty.

Nevertheless, the Realtors group's chief economist, Lawrence Yun, gave a positive outlook for job growth and the replacement of subprime lenders to borrowers with weak credit with government-backed loans as reasons for the improved outlook.

"Despite over-exaggerated negative coverage on the housing conditions, many local markets are actually seeing price increases," Yun said at a press briefing. "Mortgage availability is improving."

While Yun acknowledged that housing prices soared relative to buyers' availability to afford homes in places like Miami and San Diego, he said housing "remains affordable in vast parts of the country" -- particularly in the Midwest.

The trade group also said its index that forecasts near-term home sales inched upward in October. The trade group's seasonally adjusted index of pending sales for existing homes rose 0.6 percent to 87.2 from an upwardly revised September index of 86.7, but was down 18.4 percent from a year ago -- the third-largest year-over year decline on record.

The Realtors group also forecast the median price for U.S. existing homes -- the point at which half sold for more and half for less -- will sink by 1.9 percent to $217,600 this year and rise 0.3 percent next year to $218,300.

If median prices fall this year, it will be the first price decline in the nearly 40 years that the trade group has tracked that data.

Other ways to measure national housing prices, such as the S&P/Case-Shiller index, have already shown price declines.

In addition, a government index of national home prices marked a quarterly decline for the first time in 13 years in the third quarter.

Home prices dipped 0.4 percent nationwide in the July-September period, compared with the previous quarter, the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight said last month, citing weakening prices in much of the country.

Compared with the third quarter of 2006, U.S home prices posted an increase of 1.8 percent, but it was the smallest year-over-year increase since 1995, according to the agency, which oversees the big mortgage-finance companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

[Vegas]

Unhappy home buyer, feeling misled on price, sues agent

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/348265_realestate22.html?source=rss

CARLSBAD, Calif. -- Marty Ummel believes she paid too much for her house. So do millions of other people who bought at the peak of the housing boom.

What makes Ummel different is that she is suing her agent, saying it was all his fault.

Ummel claims that the agent hid the information that similar homes in the neighborhood were selling for less because he feared she would back out and he would lose his $30,000 commission.

Real estate lawyers and brokers say the case, which goes to trial in North County Superior Court on Monday, is likely to be the first of many in which regretful or resentful buyers seek redress from the agents who found them a home and arranged its purchase.

"When your house appreciates $100,000 in the first six months, you're not quite as concerned that maybe the valuation was $25,000 or $50,000 off," said Clifford Horner of the law firm Horner & Singer. "But when your house goes down, you ask: 'Who might have led me astray here?' "

Agents representing buyers rarely had the opportunity to make mistakes during the last real estate boom, in the late 1980s, because the job hardly existed then. For decades, residential transactions almost always involved brokers who, whatever assistance they gave the buyer, legally represented only the seller. The long boom that began in the late 1990s put an end to that one-sided world. As prices spiked, buyer's agents and brokers became popular as sounding boards, advisers and negotiators. The National Association of Realtors estimates they are now involved in two-thirds of all residential purchases.

That makes this the first housing collapse in which large numbers of buyers had a real estate professional explicitly looking after their interests. The Ummel case poses the question: In a relationship built on trust, where promises are rarely written down and where -- as in this case -- there is no signed contract, what are the exact obligations of these representatives in guiding their clients through a sizzling market?

"Agents have a lot of fiduciary duties, but they don't make money unless they close the sale," said Joel Ruben, a real estate lawyer in Manhattan Beach, Calif. "In an inflated market, there are built-in temptations to cut corners."

The defendant in the Ummel case is Mike Little, a veteran agent with ReMax Associates. He will argue that Marty Ummel, who brought the case with her husband, Vernon, is trying to shift the blame for the couple's own failures of research and due diligence.

"They simply didn't do what is expected of a knowledgeable, sophisticated buyer, and are now looking for someone other than themselves to take responsibility," Roger Holtsclaw, an agent who was hired by Little as an expert witness, said in a court deposition.

Horner, the lawyer, said valuation is a tricky area for brokers.

"Brokers aren't appraisers," said Horner, one of the writers of a guide to suing brokers. "They have no obligation to opine about value. But once they do, it becomes a gray area whether it's puffery or a misstatement of a known fact."

Most people who made a bad real estate deal might wince and move on, but people who know Marty Ummel describe her as unusually determined. She spent a year picketing ReMax offices on weekends.

Vernon Ummel, an administrator at Dominican University, gave her his permission to pursue the case, on one condition: "Don't tell me how much the legal fees are." So far, the bills come to $75,000, more than Marty Ummel's annual salary as a fundraiser at California State University-San Marcos.

"I do not think I'm obsessive-compulsive, but I am 114 pounds of absolute perseverance," Marty Ummel said.

[Jiddy78]

Unhappy home buyer, feeling misled on price, sues agent

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/348265_realestate22.html?source=rss

CARLSBAD, Calif. -- Marty Ummel believes she paid too much for her house. So do millions of other people who bought at the peak of the housing boom.

What makes Ummel different is that she is suing her agent, saying it was all his fault.

Ummel claims that the agent hid the information that similar homes in the neighborhood were selling for less because he feared she would back out and he would lose his $30,000 commission.

Real estate lawyers and brokers say the case, which goes to trial in North County Superior Court on Monday, is likely to be the first of many in which regretful or resentful buyers seek redress from the agents who found them a home and arranged its purchase.

"When your house appreciates $100,000 in the first six months, you're not quite as concerned that maybe the valuation was $25,000 or $50,000 off," said Clifford Horner of the law firm Horner & Singer. "But when your house goes down, you ask: 'Who might have led me astray here?' "

Agents representing buyers rarely had the opportunity to make mistakes during the last real estate boom, in the late 1980s, because the job hardly existed then. For decades, residential transactions almost always involved brokers who, whatever assistance they gave the buyer, legally represented only the seller. The long boom that began in the late 1990s put an end to that one-sided world. As prices spiked, buyer's agents and brokers became popular as sounding boards, advisers and negotiators. The National Association of Realtors estimates they are now involved in two-thirds of all residential purchases.

That makes this the first housing collapse in which large numbers of buyers had a real estate professional explicitly looking after their interests. The Ummel case poses the question: In a relationship built on trust, where promises are rarely written down and where -- as in this case -- there is no signed contract, what are the exact obligations of these representatives in guiding their clients through a sizzling market?

"Agents have a lot of fiduciary duties, but they don't make money unless they close the sale," said Joel Ruben, a real estate lawyer in Manhattan Beach, Calif. "In an inflated market, there are built-in temptations to cut corners."

The defendant in the Ummel case is Mike Little, a veteran agent with ReMax Associates. He will argue that Marty Ummel, who brought the case with her husband, Vernon, is trying to shift the blame for the couple's own failures of research and due diligence.

"They simply didn't do what is expected of a knowledgeable, sophisticated buyer, and are now looking for someone other than themselves to take responsibility," Roger Holtsclaw, an agent who was hired by Little as an expert witness, said in a court deposition.

Horner, the lawyer, said valuation is a tricky area for brokers.

"Brokers aren't appraisers," said Horner, one of the writers of a guide to suing brokers. "They have no obligation to opine about value. But once they do, it becomes a gray area whether it's puffery or a misstatement of a known fact."

Most people who made a bad real estate deal might wince and move on, but people who know Marty Ummel describe her as unusually determined. She spent a year picketing ReMax offices on weekends.

Vernon Ummel, an administrator at Dominican University, gave her his permission to pursue the case, on one condition: "Don't tell me how much the legal fees are." So far, the bills come to $75,000, more than Marty Ummel's annual salary as a fundraiser at California State University-San Marcos.

"I do not think I'm obsessive-compulsive, but I am 114 pounds of absolute perseverance," Marty Ummel said.

Ummel is a jackass.

[MTVike]

Ummel is a jackass.

$30,000 in commission? WTF? Who pays that when it's loaned money?

Aren't real estate agents paid with real cash at the time of the transaction...like a down payment? And what percentage is typical?

And if the house is/was worth a million bucks, how did someone making less than 75 K a year afford it?

[BoredWithNoSB]

$30,000 in commission? WTF? Who pays that when it's loaned money?

Aren't real estate agents paid with real cash at the time of the transaction...like a down payment? And what percentage is typical?

And if the house is/was worth a million bucks, how did someone making less than 75 K a year afford it?

Actually, if the realtor served both sides of the transaction they could have gotten 6%, which would have put them on the $500,000 home range.

Also, those 40 year things are big in CA. So, Marty may 'only' be paying about $2700/month, even less if she manager to geta 40 year IO.

[Jiddy78]

$30,000 in commission? WTF? Who pays that when it's loaned money?

Aren't real estate agents paid with real cash at the time of the transaction...like a down payment? And what percentage is typical?

And if the house is/was worth a million bucks, how did someone making less than 75 K a year afford it?

Oh if you could only see what I see on a daily basis on 1098 forms...

[Vegas]

House for Sale: Non-Earthlings Welcome

http://www.examiner.com/a-1278131~UFO_home_for_sale.html?LFS=y

A mountainside house being auctioned in Tennessee is perfect for anyone tolerant of gawkers and fascinated with outer space: It's built like a flying saucer.

The home "landed" on a twisting road leading to Chattanooga's Signal Mountain in 1970 - just after television executives grounded the run of the original "Star Trek" series. It will be sold to the highest bidder Saturday.

The circular house - ultramodern when it was built - is ringed with small square windows and directional lights and perched on six "landing gear" legs. It has multiple levels, three bedrooms, two baths and an entrance staircase that retracts with the push of a button.

Terry Posey, an agent with Crye-Leike Auctions of Cleveland, Tenn., said the current owner has had the property only four months and didn't want to comment. Posey posted an e-Bay ad and said he already has a $100,000 bid.
John Kleeman of Litchfield, Conn., an attorney and space culture enthusiast, said he knows of variations of the flying saucer design in Florida, Connecticut and California.

The flying saucer designs popped up about the time of the moon landings. "That's when all the excitement was," Kleeman said.

The Chattanooga home's unusual shape - sort of like two white Frisbees pasted together - poses some interior decorating challenges. The curve of the exterior creates a sloping ceiling and short side walls, but there's also a striking curved bar and a custom bathtub.

The house is larger than the prefabricated and movable UFO-shaped structures, known as Futuro houses, designed by Finnish architect Matti Suuronen in 1968.

"It really looked like a spaceship ready to take off," said realtor Lois Killebrew, who handled an open house at the first sale of the Chattanooga home decades ago.

The late Curtis W. King and his family built the unusual home because "they liked to do unusual things," Killebrew said.

http://www.examiner.com/images/ap/small/small_b5d694d4-3e30-4b6e-8080-aeb1993382d6.jpg

[Vegas]

CHATTANOOGA, Tenn. (AP) - The sale price for a Chattanooga, Tenn., house shaped like a flying saucer is nothing to phone home about.

The Space House sold at auction Saturday for a down-to-earth bid of $135,000. Auctioneer Terry Posey says he's surprised bidding didn't go higher. The sale of the 38-year-old, three-bedroom structure perched on six "landing gear" legs attracted worldwide attention.

Posey says Pearl Johnson of Cincinnati bought the mountainside house but didn't want to discuss the transaction.

The house has a retractable staircase that lowers to the ground. A neighbor says that feature came in handy for one former owner who was having an argument with her husband. She pulled up the stairway, drove her husband's truck underneath it so he couldn't get the stairs down and left him stuck inside.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080317/D8VFEC1O0.html

[Jiddy78]

Negadelphian isn't necessary anymore. The truth is all around us.

[ryr8828]

No one informed me of that auction, I'd have been on it like white on rice.

[Jiddy78]

Hot damn....My place is off 37%....That's 45% off peak. On the plus side, my property taxes are estimated to be 1/2 what they were last year...and they are limited to 3% value increases each year due to homesteading....which is estimated to save me 64 grand over the next 30 years.

You've got to win a little
Lose a little
And sometimes have the bluuueeees a little
That's the story of
That's the glory of
Babylonia!

[Jiddy78]

http://io9.com/assets/resources/2008/03/80324151.jpg


Here's a view Vegas will have for the next decade or so. ;)

[Vegas]

http://io9.com/assets/resources/2008/03/80324151.jpg


Here's a view Vegas will have for the next decade or so. ;)

I drive by that every day.

[Jiddy78]

I drive by that every day.

It will be a haven for bums. Fat chance it gets built out.

[Vegas]

It will be a haven for bums. Fat chance it gets built out.

It will get built out. The money is pouring in from Dubai.

[Vegas]

It will get built out. The money is pouring in from Dubai.

And I forgot to mention that they're selling the condos there starting at $1000 per square foot.

[Jiddy78]

It will get built out. The money is pouring in from Dubai.

Very doubtful...Why do you think Bear Stearns failed? The money stopped pouring in.

[Jiddy78]

And I forgot to mention that they're selling the condos there starting at $1000 per square foot.

No...They're posting wishing prices and hoping they can snooker some deposits.

Really they had it right the first time around with the S&L crises...You don't BUILD THE THING...Just clear some land, throw a hot broad behind the desk, collect the money and run.

Idiots.

[Roy Munson]

http://io9.com/assets/resources/2008/03/80324151.jpg


Here's a view Vegas will have for the next decade or so. ;)
That city center place is going to be fucking huge. And more than half of it will be owned by overseas investors because the dollar is so fucking cheap.

[Jiddy78]

That city center place is going to be fucking huge. And more than half of it will be owned by overseas investors because the dollar is so fucking cheap.

I'll bet you dinner that it doesn't get built out before 2012 if at all.

[Vegas]

I'll bet you dinner that it doesn't get built out before 2012 if at all.

I'll take that bet. But that wouldn't be fair. I know things about that project that you don't.

[Jiddy78]

I'll take that bet. But that wouldn't be fair. I know things about that project that you don't.

We'll see.

[Vegas]

We'll see.

So you're withdrawing the bet offer?

[Jiddy78]

So you're withdrawing the bet offer?

No.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120554452781938671.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120675186936073477.html?mod=sphere_ts&mod=sphere_wd

[Vegas]

No.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120554452781938671.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120675186936073477.html?mod=sphere_ts&mod=sphere_wd

The Cosmopolitan project is next to City Center and is a separate project. One of the real big problems they had was competing with a bigger property only a stone's throw away. City Center is going to happen.

[Jiddy78]

The Cosmopolitan project is next to City Center and is a separate project. One of the real big problems they had was competing with a bigger property only a stone's throw away. City Center is going to happen.

Oh...So the "great" project will be next to a bum's paradise...

[Vegas]

Oh...So the "great" project will be next to a bum's paradise...

The bum's paradise is a few blocks from downtown. They do a pretty good job of keeping the bums away from the strip.

[Jiddy78]

The bum's paradise is a few blocks from downtown. They do a pretty good job of keeping the bums away from the strip.

Hmph...Things must have changed since I went in 2004 then...I remember sex fliers all over the street ON the strop and bums all along my walk from the hotel to in and out burger...Granted...That walk was just off the strip...but not by much. And how could we forget the strip mall "escort" parlors with broads hanging out all by the front door...My kind of town.

[Vegas]

Hmph...Things must have changed since I went in 2004 then...I remember sex fliers all over the street ON the strop and bums all along my walk from the hotel to in and out burger...Granted...That walk was just off the strip...but not by much. And how could we forget the strip mall "escort" parlors with broads hanging out all by the front door...My kind of town.

The sex fliers are still a problem. Most people don't realize that the strip is not part of the city of Las Vegas. It's a county island. If it were in the city limits, that problem would have been cleaned up already.

[MTVike]

The sex fliers are still a problem. Most people don't realize that the strip is not part of the city of Las Vegas. It's a county island. If it were in the city limits, that problem would have been cleaned up already.

I'm one of the "most" people.

A "county island"? Prostitution isn't allowed there, but advertising for it is?

[Jiddy78]

http://www.frontlinethoughts.com/pdf/mwo032808.pdf

[Jiddy78]

The sex fliers are still a problem. Most people don't realize that the strip is not part of the city of Las Vegas. It's a county island. If it were in the city limits, that problem would have been cleaned up already.

Honestly, piddly crap like "Well this side of the street is county and this side is city" doesn't matter much to me when hookers, gambling, booze, porn and just general sin and debauchery is everywhere the eye wishes to see....I couldn't live in Vegas...It would be the death of me.

[Vegas]

I'm one of the "most" people.

A "county island"? Prostitution isn't allowed there, but advertising for it is?

The rules on advertising prostitution are kind of strange. The legal brothels are not allowed to advertise outside of the counties where they reside. The sex fliers that are handed out on the strip are for escort services and nude clubs. As I understand some of the escort services are ripoffs and some are illegal prostitution services.

[Jiddy78]

The rules on advertising prostitution are kind of strange. The legal brothels are not allowed to advertise outside of the counties where they reside. The sex fliers that are handed out on the strip are for escort services and nude clubs. As I understand some of the escort services are ripoffs and some are illegal prostitution services.

How many hookers get their freak on in hotels? Your city cops look the other way I have no doubt...I saw some of them broads goin' up elevators in casinos....They weren't going to play parcheesi...That's for sure.

[Vegas]

Honestly, piddly crap like "Well this side of the street is county and this side is city" doesn't matter much to me when hookers, gambling, booze, porn and just general sin and debauchery is everywhere the eye wishes to see....I couldn't live in Vegas...It would be the death of me.

People that live here very rarely go to the strip unless they work at a strip casino. The last time I went to the strip was last August when I had family visiting. I very rarely see hookers. I saw more hookers in California than I see here.

[Vegas]

How many hookers get their freak on in hotels? Your city cops look the other way I have no doubt...I saw some of them broads goin' up elevators in casinos....They weren't going to play parcheesi...That's for sure.

I don't know the numbers but can tell you that it's nothing like the old days. That's what the old timers tell me.

The city away from the strip is much like anyplace else, except it's probably cleaner than most places. There are nice parks all over town.

[Jiddy78]

I swear they make these articles with intention of harming me.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/03/31/news/economy/copes/index.htm?postversion=2008033105

The two didn't say exactly how much money they made at their last jobs but Kent admitted they each had six-figure incomes.

Today, they're trying to get by on his unemployment benefits of about $450 a week, which covers only about an eighth of the basic payments they owe every month.

Despite their financial problems, the Copes have worked hard to protect their credit rating, staying current on bills. And they've made cutbacks: trading in Kent's Corvette for a Suburban and getting rid of the gardener, for example. But the couple also has learned that it didn't need everything it used to spend money on.

[Roy Munson]

I'll bet you dinner that it doesn't get built out before 2012 if at all.
When I win you have to come to Raleigh and buy me dinner.

[Roy Munson]

The bum's paradise is a few blocks from downtown. They do a pretty good job of keeping the bums away from the strip.
Well... atleast south of the Wynn. I remember walking past some pretty shady characters from there up towards the stratosphere. Pretty much everything north of the Wynn needs to be torn down if its not already.

[Jiddy78]

When I win you have to come to Raleigh and buy me dinner.

If you don't mind wifey and baby tagging along, I might roll through your town one day...We road trip up to Virginia...and to avoid airlines we've been discussing taking detours and mini-weekends on the way to see grandma/grandpa...It looks like we'll be stopping at Hilton Head this summer...Anything good to see/do in Raleigh? Or just a bunch of country-club lovin' young yuppies in utopian crapbox communities?

[Roy Munson]

If you don't mind wifey and baby tagging along, I might roll through your town one day...We road trip up to Virginia...and to avoid airlines we've been discussing taking detours and mini-weekends on the way to see grandma/grandpa...It looks like we'll be stopping at Hilton Head this summer...Anything good to see/do in Raleigh? Or just a bunch of country-club lovin' young yuppies in utopian crapbox communities?
Unless you like ACC basketball or Durham Bulls baseball, then its the latter...

Bring your bikes along, we'll go on a ride. It'll be a change from anything you ride since there are actually hills.

[domenick2x]

Unless you like ACC basketball or Durham Bulls baseball, then its the latter...

Bring your bikes along, we'll go on a ride. It'll be a change from anything you ride since there are actually hills.
Jiddy IS a poor-man's Lance Armstrong....

[pnkpanther]

there was no printable view for this article

http://finance.yahoo.com/taxes/article/104716/10-Reasons-Your-Taxes-Are-Going-Up


but many of these points are ones little old me made long ago about Bush's spending/tax policies. I didnt make them as effectively, but points none the less. Of course when I made these points, Vegas would post articles of tax revenues going up and how in fact, the economy was actually doing really well, it was just perceived as bad by the "liberal" media.

[Vegas]

Trump snares $100 million contract on oceanfront estate

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/business/content/business/epaper/2008/05/14/m1a_trump_0515.html

An oceanfront Palm Beach mansion Donald Trump owns is under contract for sale to an unnamed foreign buyer for $100 million - the property's official asking price - according to sources close to the billionaire real estate mogul.

The 80,000-square-foot property at 515 N. County Road sits on 6 acres and has 475 feet of unobstructed oceanfront, making the price per linear foot $210,526.

http://img.coxnewsweb.com/C/00/39/60/image_7060390.jpg

[Jiddy78]

Looks like proof that wealth is being redistributed upward more than any kind of sign that the bubble is finished bursting...

[Jiddy78]

What a f*cking coincidence this is...Just got a call...The client got his bank to writedown his mortgage six figures to avoid short sale....I'm f*cking disgusted on the inside right now.

[Vegas]

What a f*cking coincidence this is...Just got a call...The client got his bank to writedown his mortgage six figures to avoid short sale....I'm f*cking disgusted on the inside right now.

That would make me sick, too. Actually it does make me sick, but I'm over here.

[Jiddy78]

That would make me sick, too. Actually it does make me sick, but I'm over here.

To make matters worse...The call was one of those "I know I haven't called you back or paid you for last year's stuff...but I really need this year's to (insert writedown with bank here)....

His home puts mine to shame.

I hate my life.

Seriously.

Where's MT? I want to put him down upon this revelation.

[Vegas]

The most expensive house in the world

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/money/article1198072.ece

A MANSION in London is set to sell for £117million – making it the world’s costliest home.

The palatial residence, on a street dubbed Billionaires’ Row, is believed to have been bought by Britain’s richest man, steel tycoon Lakshmi Mittal.
He is believed to be close to exchanging contracts with owner Noam Gottesman, 47, a US-born financier.

The home in Kensington Palace Gardens, West London, Princess Diana’s former street, is being sold furnished and with an art collection. It works out at an astonishing £8,000 per square foot.

Mr Mittal, 57, who denies being the buyer, has been looking to splurge some of his £27.7billion fortune on a home for son Aditya, 32.

Mr Mittal moved into the half-mile, tree-lined private avenue four years ago after paying £67million for a 12-bedroom home.
His new pad pips the £115million previous record – paid in March for a flat being built in nearby St James’s Square.

[ryr8828]

The most expensive house in the world

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/money/article1198072.ece

A MANSION in London is set to sell for £117million – making it the world’s costliest home.

The palatial residence, on a street dubbed Billionaires’ Row, is believed to have been bought by Britain’s richest man, steel tycoon Lakshmi Mittal.
He is believed to be close to exchanging contracts with owner Noam Gottesman, 47, a US-born financier.

The home in Kensington Palace Gardens, West London, Princess Diana’s former street, is being sold furnished and with an art collection. It works out at an astonishing £8,000 per square foot.

Mr Mittal, 57, who denies being the buyer, has been looking to splurge some of his £27.7billion fortune on a home for son Aditya, 32.

Mr Mittal moved into the half-mile, tree-lined private avenue four years ago after paying £67million for a 12-bedroom home.
His new pad pips the £115million previous record – paid in March for a flat being built in nearby St James’s Square.
For that money I'd buy an island and live the the pro shop of the new golf course I had built on it.

[Jiddy78]

The most expensive house in the world

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/money/article1198072.ece

A MANSION in London is set to sell for £117million – making it the world’s costliest home.

The palatial residence, on a street dubbed Billionaires’ Row, is believed to have been bought by Britain’s richest man, steel tycoon Lakshmi Mittal.
He is believed to be close to exchanging contracts with owner Noam Gottesman, 47, a US-born financier.

The home in Kensington Palace Gardens, West London, Princess Diana’s former street, is being sold furnished and with an art collection. It works out at an astonishing £8,000 per square foot.

Mr Mittal, 57, who denies being the buyer, has been looking to splurge some of his £27.7billion fortune on a home for son Aditya, 32.

Mr Mittal moved into the half-mile, tree-lined private avenue four years ago after paying £67million for a 12-bedroom home.
His new pad pips the £115million previous record – paid in March for a flat being built in nearby St James’s Square.

I thought there was an obnoxious thing not too long ago that looked like a highrise about to fall over that took this distinction...

[Vegas]

US new home sales rose unexpectedly in April

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080527160651.9tkjwy2s&show_article=1

Sales of new homes across the United States rose an unexpected 3.3 percent in April from the prior month, to a seasonally adjusted annual pace of 526,000 homes, a government report showed Tuesday.

The spike in sales confounded most economists forecasts of a sales decline last month.

New home sales in March, however, were revised lower to 509,000 properties compared with an initial tally of 526,000, according to the Commerce Department survey.

Although activity rose over the month, sales of new homes in the 12 months to April have dived a hefty 42 percent in the midst of a persistent housing market slump.

Turnover of new homes has fallen steadily in the past two years, excepting some month-on-month gains, amid one of the worst US housing market downturns in decades.

The housing meltdown has been exacerbated in the past nine months by a broad credit crunch which has swept through the banking sector, making it harder for Americans to obtain mortgages and credit.

A report on Friday showed that sales of existing homes, which represent a much larger wedge of the overall housing market than newly built properties, fell one percent during April from March to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 4.89 million properties.

"New home sales are still at a very weak level, but better-than-feared news has provided a bullish catalyst for a (stock) market coming off a bad week last week," analysts at Briefing.com said.

The median sales price of new houses sold in April rose 9.1 percent compared with March to 246,100 dollars, marking the highest median price level since November of last year.

The improvement in overall new home sales marked the highest level of sales since February, but sales have tumbled sharply from the market's red-hot days in late 2005 and early 2006 when over one million new homes on a seasonally adjusted basis were being bought each month.

The ongoing housing slump started in the first half of 2006 and has been buffeting the world's largest economy despite aggressive interest rate cuts by the Federal Reserve.

A growing deluge of home foreclosures also is weighing down the market as some homeowners have failed to keep up with their mortgage repayments amid the slowing economy.

Some home builders have responded to the slump by slashing prices on new homes. Others have sought to entice potential buyers with competitive financing assistance, or by offering upgraded kitchens, flat-screen televisions and other marketing goodies.

The Commerce Department report also showed that the average sales price of a new home in April was 321,000 dollars, marking a 10 percent gain from a month earlier.

New home sales increased in most regions of the country last month.

Sales of new homes rose in the Northeast, Midwest and West of the country, but fell in the South which includes the state of Florida where property sales have fallen especially hard, partly in the wake of a construction frenzy.

Real estate agents say home sales traditionally improve during the spring and summer compared with winter months when bad weather can deter people from shopping for a new home.

Builders trimmed 1.5 percent off the glut of unsold homes to 454,000 properties, leaving them with an 10.6-month supply and not far short of March's revised 11.1 month overhang.

[Smoke681]

Rut roh....


http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/05/28/renters.booted/index.html


LAGUNA HILLS, California (CNN) -- Charles Nelson has paid about $30,000 in rent since moving into a spacious four-bedroom home in August. He was stunned when a real estate agent knocked on his door recently and said the home was in foreclosure.


Charles Nelson paid $30,000 in rent, yet he faces eviction because his landlord is getting foreclosed upon.

1 of 3 His landlord had not paid the mortgage since he moved in and the bank is now demanding the house back. Nelson will also lose his $7,700 security deposit.

When he confronted the landlord, he says, he was given a terse response: "That's none of your business."

"I said, 'I beg your pardon. It is my business. I mean, is somebody going to knock at the door and throw me out -- throw my family out, or what?' " he said. Watch renters lose out big time in foreclosure »

Nelson, the owner of PCH Auto Sales, lives in the upper-middle class enclave of Laguna Hills, south of Los Angeles, with his girlfriend and two sons from previous marriages.

More than 100 miles away in the working-class city of Palmdale, Fai Nomaaea -- a 35-year-old mother of eight -- can relate. The single mom was cleaning the yard when a man handed her a notice of foreclosure. Like Nelson, she had been paying her rent on time every month.

She now lives in fear every day.

"I don't know what's going to happen the next day," she said. "I don't know if they're going to come to the door and tell us that we have to move, and I don't have anywhere to go."

For Nomaaea, getting booted from the home presents another hardship: She lives on a fixed income and can afford about $1,200 a month in rent. It also means finding a new school for her children.

Her 10-year-old daughter, Jeaah, said she prays to God every night. "I ask Him, I hope I get new friends and they like me and stuff, and that I like them back," the girl said.

Stories like these are becoming more common, with renters becoming victims of the nation's mortgage meltdown through no fault of their own, experts say. iReport: Tell us how the economy is treating you

"We know it's a growing problem," said Rick Sharga, vice president of marketing for RealtyTrac, a company that tracks foreclosures across the country.

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"It really is a frightening issue for tenants that have no way of knowing until almost the last minute that a landlord is defaulting on a property."

The number of households to receive foreclosure notices for the first quarter of 2008 was up 112 percent from the same time last year, according to RealtyTrac. See skyrocketing foreclosure filings »

Sharga said that more than 38 percent of properties in foreclosure through the end of April were classified as "not-owner occupied," meaning they were second homes, investment homes or rental property. That's roughly 280,000 of the nation's 720,000 foreclosed properties.

The hardest-hit areas are California, Arizona, Nevada and Florida.

"What you had was dramatically overheated markets where people overextended themselves to buy overvalued properties and they used risky loans to get those properties," Sharga said.

Foreclosure laws are governed state by state, and there is not much renters can do when their landlords get foreclosed on. There is no guarantee of being allowed to stay in the homes or ways to get their security deposits back.

"There is very little in the way of protections for tenants," said Nadine Cohen, an attorney for Greater Boston Legal Services, which represents low-income people in Boston. "Many times, the tenants don't even know their buildings are being foreclosed."

Cohen said some states in the Northeast have begun introducing legislation to protect renters from being evicted. A U.S. congressional bill that would have addressed the issue has been held up in conference committee.

"People who are continuing to pay their rent are really victims of this mortgage foreclosure crisis and need to be protected. They haven't done anything wrong. They've lived up to the tenets of their lease; they paid their rent," said John Taylor, president CEO of National Community Reinvestment Coalition, which works to promote access to basic banking services.

"It simply smacks against all that is fair in our democratic society for people who have no control over bad decisions of other people, but ... they're impacted by this."

Sharga said that in many cases, renters want to buy the properties being foreclosed, but the banks force them out anyway.

"It boggles the mind. ... We're dealing with laws and regulations that really weren't made with this kind of situation in mind," he said.

Nelson knows all about that. He called the bank to offer to buy the home he's renting but was told that he has to move out first and then make a bid. Now, he lives day-to-day, not knowing when he'll have to leave.

"There could be a knock on the door, saying we have 10 days, two weeks. I don't know."

[Jiddy78]

Feast thy eyes on a real life Babylonian whore:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25416138/?GT1=43001

[ryr8828]

Feast thy eyes on a real life Babylonian whore:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25416138/?GT1=43001
She must have a huge ass.