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Mike
11-23-2008, 11:46 PM
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/postglobal/fareed_zakaria/2008/11/china_can_provide_recession_re.html

China's Lifeline to the U.S.


For weeks the world has eagerly awaited word from the Obama transition team about the people who will head up the next administration -- the new secretaries of state and treasury, the attorney general. But one of the more crucial positions in the Obama administration probably isn't going to be filled for months and is likely to get little attention when it is -- the post of U.S. ambassador to China.

China has become the key to America getting through the worsening economic crisis. The American ambassador in Beijing (okay, this is a metaphor for all those officials who will be managing this relationship) will need to make sure that China sees its interests as aligned with America's. Or else things could get very, very ugly.

Everyone agrees now that Washington needs to spend its way out of this recession, to ensure that it doesn't turn into a depression. Economists on both the left and right agree that a massive fiscal stimulus is needed and that for now, we shouldn't be worrying about deficits. But to run up these deficits -- which could total somewhere between $1 trillion and $1.5 trillion, or between 7 and 11 percent of gross domestic product -- America has to get someone to buy its debt. And the only country with the cash to do so is China.

In September, Beijing became America's largest foreign creditor, surpassing Japan, which no longer buys large amounts of Treasury notes. In fact, though the Treasury Department does not keep records of American bondholders, it is virtually certain that, holding 10 percent of all U.S. public debt, the government of the People's Republic of China has become Washington's largest creditor, foreign or domestic. It is America's banker.

But will the Chinese continue to play this role? They have the means to do so. China's foreign exchange reserves stand at about $2 trillion (compared with America's relatively puny $73 billion). But the Chinese government is worried that its own economy is slowing down sharply, as Americans and Europeans stop buying Chinese exports. It hopes to revive growth in China (to levels around 6 or 7 percent rather than last year's 12 percent) with a massive stimulus program of its own.

The spending initiatives that Beijing announced a few weeks ago would total almost $600 billion (some of which include existing projects), a staggering 15 percent of China's GDP. Given its focus on keeping people employed and minimizing strikes and protests, Beijing will not hesitate to add tens of billions more to that package if need be.

At the same time, Washington desperately needs Beijing to keep buying American bonds, so that the U.S. government can run up a deficit and launch its own fiscal stimulus. In effect, we're asking China to finance simultaneously the two largest fiscal expansions in human history -- theirs and ours. Naturally China's priority is likely to be its own citizens.

"People often say that China and America are equally dependent on each other," says Joseph Stiglitz, winner of the 2001 Nobel Prize in Economics. "But that's no longer true. China has two ways to keep its economy growing. One way is to finance the American consumer. But another way is to finance its own citizens, who are increasingly able to consume in large enough quantities to stimulate economic growth in China. They have options, we don't. There isn't really any other country that could finance the American
deficit."

In his fascinating new book, "The Ascent of Money," Niall Ferguson describes the birth of a new nation after the cold war. He calls it Chimerica -- and it accounts for a tenth of the world's land surface, a quarter of its population and half of global economic growth in the past eight years. "For a time it seemed like a marriage made in heaven," he writes. "The East Chimericans did the saving, the West Chimericans did the spending." The Easterners got growth, the Westerners low inflation and low interest rates.

Like Stiglitz, Ferguson believes that China has options. "They will certainly try to keep American consumption going, but if it becomes clear that it isn't working, they do have a Plan B," he told me last week. Plan B would be to focus on boosting China's own consumption through government spending and easing credit to its people. "The big question today,"

Ferguson said, "is whether Chimerica stays together or comes apart because of this crisis. If it stays together, you can see a path out of the woods. If it splits up, say goodbye to globalization."

In recent years the most important and difficult diplomatic posting has unquestionably been the one to Baghdad. Over the next decade, the toughest and most crucial assignment may well be in Beijing.

There is a consensus forming that Washington needs to spend its way out of this recession, to ensure that it doesn't turn into a depression. Economists of both the left and right agree that a massive fiscal stimulus is needed and that for now, we shouldn't be worrying about deficits. But in order to run up these deficits--which could total somewhere between $1 trillion and $1.5 trillion, or between 7 and 11 percent of GDP--someone has to buy American debt. And the only country that has the cash to do so is China.

In September, Beijing became America's largest foreign creditor, surpassing Japan, which no longer buys large amounts of American Treasury notes. In fact, though the Treasury Department does not keep records of American bondholders, it is virtually certain that, holding 10 percent of all U.S. public debt, the government of the People's Republic of China has become Washington's largest creditor, foreign or domestic. It is America's banker.

But will the Chinese continue to play this role? They certainly have the means to do so. China's foreign-exchange reserves stand at about $2 trillion (compared with America's at a relatively puny $73 billion). But the Chinese government is worried that its own economy is slowing down sharply, as Americans and Europeans stop buying Chinese exports. They hope to revive growth in China (to levels around 6 or 7 percent rather than last year's 12 percent) with a massive stimulus program of their own.

The spending initiatives that Beijing announced a few weeks ago would total almost $600 billion (some of which include existing projects), a staggering 15 percent of China's GDP. Given their focus on keeping people employed and minimizing strikes and protests, Beijing will not hesitate to add tens of billions more to that package if need be.
At the same time, Washington desperately needs Beijing to keep buying American bonds, so that the U.S. government can run up a deficit and launch its own fiscal stimulus. In effect, we're asking China to finance simultaneously the two largest fiscal expansions in human history -- theirs and ours. They will probably try to accommodate us, because it's in their interest to jump-start the American economy. But naturally their priority is likely to be their own growth.

"People often say that China and America are equally dependent on each other," says Joseph Stiglitz, winner of the 2001 Nobel Prize in Economics. "But that's no longer true. China has two ways to keep its economy growing. One way is to finance the American consumer. But another way is to finance its own citizens, who are increasingly able to consume in large enough quantities to stimulate economic growth in China. They have options, we don't. There isn't really any other country that could finance the American deficit."

In his fascinating new book, "The Ascent of Money," Niall Ferguson describes the birth of a new nation after the cold war. He calls it Chimerica -- and it accounts for a tenth of the world's land surface, a quarter of its population and half of global economic growth in the past eight years. "For a time it seemed like a marriage made in heaven," he writes. "The East Chimericans did the saving, the West Chimericans did the spending." The Easterners got growth, the Westerners low inflation and low interest rates.

Like Stiglitz, Ferguson believes that China has options. "They will certainly try to keep American consumption going, but if it becomes clear that it isn't working, they do have a plan B," he said to me last week. Plan B would be to focus on boosting China's own consumption through government spending and easing credit to their own people. "The big question today," Ferguson said, "is whether Chimerica stays together or comes apart because of this crisis. If it stays together, you can see a path out of the woods. If it splits up, say goodbye to globalization."

In recent years the most important and difficult ambassadorial posting has unquestionably been the one to Baghdad. Over the next decade, the toughest and most crucial assignment may well be in Beijing.

Posted by Fareed Zakaria on November 23, 2008 6:02 PM

KinjaKahn
11-23-2008, 11:59 PM
Keep buying Chinese garbage... we aren't total slaves yet. Fear not... we can be.. keep buying.

Mike
11-24-2008, 12:02 AM
Keep buying Chinese garbage... we aren't total slaves yet. Fear not... we can be.. keep buying.

I've NEVER bought foreign. And, my freshman daughter advises me every morning which "U.S." supposed manufacturer I should not buy from.

But if you think that is the only answer, or the answer, then I've got a solar panel to sell ...

KinjaKahn
11-24-2008, 12:05 AM
I've NEVER bought foreign.
I have never lied either.

Mike
11-24-2008, 12:08 AM
I have never lied either.

First thing I really respected from you.

But I've never consciously bought foreign. I can't speak for components and shit.

Not a car (except the supra), not a blender.

KinjaKahn
11-24-2008, 12:14 AM
First thing I really respected from you.

But I've never consciously bought foreign. I can't speak for components and shit.

Not a car (except the supra), not a blender.

LOL Why not just be honest? You capitalized the never.. accentuating it as if someone will actually believe it.

Own a VCR, DVR, or DVD player? Where was it made? How about your computer monitor?

Mike
11-24-2008, 12:16 AM
LOL Why not just be honest? You capitalized the never.. accentuating it as if someone will actually believe it.

Own a VCR, DVR, or DVD player? Where was it made? How about your computer monitor?

I know what I know and don't what I don't.

The supra was the only foreign thing I knew I bought and did so purposefully.

Is Apple foreign?

Mike
11-24-2008, 12:17 AM
LOL Why not just be honest? You capitalized the never.. accentuating it as if someone will actually believe it.

Own a VCR, DVR, or DVD player? Where was it made? How about your computer monitor?

And I still don't have DVR. My kids do, however.

Mike
11-24-2008, 12:18 AM
One thing I WON'T do is apologize for my consumerism. Apparently YOU need to?

KinjaKahn
11-24-2008, 12:19 AM
I am not quite sure I gave a fuck about what you have... just where it came form.

Mike
11-24-2008, 12:20 AM
I am not quite sure I gave a fuck about what you have... just where it came form.

List all your things and where they came from.

Mike
11-24-2008, 12:23 AM
List all your things and where they came from.

Oh, and you can list your suck up owners and moderators of this site.

They like to act like they are so tough, but they are (demonstrably) pussys who can't stand any opposition to any views they have. SNUFF OUT is the ryr/vegas mantra. Even though I'd buy them a meal and drinks all night...

KinjaKahn
11-24-2008, 12:27 AM
One thing I WON'T do is apologize for my consumerism. Apparently YOU need to?

I rarely apologize for anything other than errors. Luckily I don't error much.

Its not about having you feel bad for consuming... its about not having the choice on whether or not buy foreign goods anymore. Our countries wealth is being bled from us.

Mike
11-24-2008, 12:30 AM
I rarely apologize for anything other than errors. Luckily I don't error much.

Its not about having you feel bad for consuming... its about not having the choice on whether or not buy foreign goods anymore. Our countries wealth is being bled from us.

Well then, SEE the middle finger you were trying to send my way.

My daughter educates me every morning about what I should or shouldn't buy based on foreign trade issues and such. She's DEDICATED.

You are apparently just a blowhard. Which, I knew.

KinjaKahn
11-24-2008, 12:34 AM
You are apparently just a blowhard. Which, I knew.
Is this another one of your lies? lol

Mike
11-24-2008, 12:35 AM
Is this another one of your lies? lol

Is this apparently another one of your ... ooooops distraction from reality ..... oooops moments? ///// oooooop ... s .....

KinjaKahn
11-24-2008, 12:53 AM
So wise one... why do I continually bring up buying foreign? Have I ever claimed I never buy foreign? Ever?

It is entirely about not having the choice to keep money in America, and all the negative issues that accompany it. Something an Obaman/democrat/communist/socialist/babyslayer/ACLU-NAMBLA supporter/Anarchist/Marxist cannot comprehend. (I'm pretty sure your covered in there somewhere)

Mike
11-24-2008, 01:01 AM
So wise one... why do I continually bring up buying foreign? Have I ever claimed I never buy foreign? Ever?

It is entirely about not having the choice to keep money in America, and all the negative issues that accompany it. Something an Obaman/democrat/communist/socialist/babyslayer/ACLU-NAMBLA supporter/Anarchist/Marxist cannot comprehend. (I'm pretty sure your covered in there somewhere)


Nope. I agree with you.

But that doesn't mean I'm a TARGET of your kind.


But, I KNOW, from your comments, that you don't give a shit about reality. You give a shit about your pocketbook today. You are good. But you are the WORST of bad. From my amatueristic observations, you are ahead.

KinjaKahn
11-24-2008, 01:05 AM
Nope. I agree with you.

But that doesn't mean I'm a TARGET of your kind.


But, I KNOW, from your comments, that you don't give a shit about reality. You give a shit about your pocketbook today. You are good. But you are the WORST of bad. From my amatueristic observations, you are ahead.
Nonsense. you know nothing concerning me. Absolutely nothing. Reality? Tell me of your Utopian reality.:rolleyes:

Mike
11-24-2008, 01:08 AM
Nonsense. you know nothing concerning me. Absolutely nothing. Reality? Tell me of your Utopian reality.:rolleyes:

You post. You care.

You otherwise blabber.


And, you REALLY blabber.

KinjaKahn
11-24-2008, 01:13 AM
You post. You care.

You otherwise blabber.


And, you REALLY blabber.

Talk about blabber?
You are good. But you are the WORST of bad.
Are these factual or opinion based observations? Reality. :rolleyes:

Mike
11-24-2008, 01:14 AM
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

KinjaKahn
11-24-2008, 01:18 AM
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
See... not knowing the difference between fact and opinion stumps you.:)

Mike
11-24-2008, 01:19 AM
This .. THIS.. is why RYR and VEGAS have NO balls.

I put myself out there... ryr snuggs with goddess and wants to be the "
man"... the MAN ... He's an f'n puffinstuff cupcake.

and Vegas has NO spine ... unless he could actually back up whatever he SAYS ... SAYS >???? back it up ??? or snuggle with RUSH and links to websites that have NO credibility other than his own right wing, love my money, you all suck if you didn't fall into my lucky .. .LUCKY ... situations.... If VEGAS says his situation isn't LUCKY ... then fuck him.... He's forgotten where his LUCK came from ... LUCK .... LUCK ... ... ...


<K

Hello ryr. What message from YOUR ex would you like me to put out there on the internets with vetlivs...

Mike
11-24-2008, 01:20 AM
See... not knowing the difference between fact and opinion stumps you.:)

Yep.]\

My assiness knows where I sleep.

Some, don't seem to have a F'n clue.

KinjaKahn
11-24-2008, 01:22 AM
Hello ryr. What message from YOUR ex would you like me to put out there on the internets with vetlivs...
Is this also an action from ordered from your freshman daughter?

Mike
11-24-2008, 01:24 AM
Is this also an action from ordered from your freshman daughter?

I couldn't publish here her distaste for your bubble economy.

She wants to SCREAM america. And she is.

KinjaKahn
11-24-2008, 01:28 AM
Not my bubble.

Mike
11-24-2008, 01:28 AM
Not my bubble.

Not your anything when you bow out.

KinjaKahn
11-24-2008, 01:30 AM
Not your anything when you bow out.
I didn't bow in.

Mike
11-24-2008, 01:33 AM
I didn't bow in.


No.... Not at all.

You never ever bowed in.

Ever.

LSU chuckles. But not much. Because he pukes like most innocent folk.

KinjaKahn
11-24-2008, 01:35 AM
No.... Not at all.

You never ever bowed in.

Ever.

LSU chuckles. But not much. Because he pukes like most innocent folk. What did I bow into wise one?

Mike
11-24-2008, 01:37 AM
What did I bow into wise one?

You can answer that ... What>?


Or,,, maybe you are into the vapor yourseff ... scooooot !!

KinjaKahn
11-24-2008, 01:43 AM
You can answer that ... What>?


Or,,, maybe you are into the vapor yourseff ... scooooot !!

I guess you're not the wise one, just another assumerconsumer... and a liar.

Mike
11-24-2008, 01:47 AM
I guess you're not the wise one, just another assumerconsumer... and a liar.

Not close.

Put up your 's...... And I'll put up mine.

Mine is a splat non deal ... a moment... a meal.

I give drinks from a bottle, a shelter from a shade.

Mike
11-24-2008, 01:48 AM
I've never lied, unlike you.


I'll hang on to reality, unlike you.

KinjaKahn
11-24-2008, 01:53 AM
Not close.

Put up your 's...... And I'll put up mine.

Mine is a splat non deal ... a moment... a meal.

I give drinks from a bottle, a shelter from a shade.

Who is someone else's bitch.

Lets go with Even Dumber Riddles for $200 Alex...

Mike
11-24-2008, 01:57 AM
Who is someone else's bitch.

Lets go with Even Dumber Riddles for $200 Alex...

Let's go with Obama can't win because Rush says I should play in puddles.com.

KinjaKahn
11-24-2008, 01:59 AM
Let's go with Obama can't win because Rush says I should play in puddles.com.
Clue: Rush is a hypocrite.

Good try... :rolleyes:

Mike
11-24-2008, 02:02 AM
Clue: Rush is a hypocrite.

Good try... :rolleyes:

Rush is the biggest hypocrite in the history of mankind.

You love his bride. Shut up. Really. No. Really.

Mike
11-24-2008, 02:19 AM
http://sports-boards.net/forums/member.php?u=25

Jesse Helms' Ghost
11-24-2008, 02:50 AM
I've NEVER bought foreign. Except for the shirt you wear, the pants you wear, the car you drive, the computer products you're using, the cellphone your thought was manufactured in the US, the monitor you're using to view this post, the keyboard you're clicking on to write your babblings, the.........
And, my freshman daughter advises me every morning which "U.S." supposed manufacturer I should not buy from. No wonder it was so easy for you top vote for Obama.

'Experience' wasn't really a consideration for you.

Mike
11-24-2008, 02:51 AM
Except for the shirt you wear, the pants you wear, the car you drive, the computer products you're using, the cellphone your thought was manufactured in the US, the monitor you're using to view this post, the keyboard you're clicking on to write your babblings, the.........
No wonder it was so easy for you top vote for Obama.

'Experience' wasn't really a consideration for you.



So you acknowledge you are full of shit.

Good to know.

Jesse Helms' Ghost
11-24-2008, 02:54 AM
This .. THIS.. is why RYR and VEGAS have NO balls.

I put myself out there... ryr snuggs with goddess and wants to be the "
man"... the MAN ... He's an f'n puffinstuff cupcake.

and Vegas has NO spine ... unless he could actually back up whatever he SAYS ... SAYS >???? back it up ??? or snuggle with RUSH and links to websites that have NO credibility other than his own right wing, love my money, you all suck if you didn't fall into my lucky .. .LUCKY ... situations.... If VEGAS says his situation isn't LUCKY ... then fuck him.... He's forgotten where his LUCK came from ... LUCK .... LUCK ... ... ... Looks like somebody is a little wacky and is now channeling the 'Conspiracy Theory' thread.

Mike
11-24-2008, 02:57 AM
Looks like somebody is a little wacky and is now channeling the 'Conspiracy Theory' thread.


Check back with how many times your posts have been snuffed out by Vegas and anyone else with a clue.

Vegas and ryr have a clue.

They are just wrong.

You don't have a clue and you are wrong. Sucks to be you.

LSU
11-24-2008, 09:37 AM
http://pbmai.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/fonzie_jumps_the_shark.jpg

hannitykillspuppies
11-24-2008, 12:52 PM
http://sports-boards.net/forums/member.php?u=25

that explains everything.