Gun debate

[LSU]

Just cruised over to scientific american and they have a blog debate going on over whether or not more lax or more strict gun laws would have prevented the VT massacre...

the title "Do Firearms Kill More People (in the home) Than They Save (in public places)?"

http://blog.sciam.com/index.php?title=do_firearms_kill_more_people_in_th e_home&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

[pnkpanther]

VA is known to have lax gun laws..people from NY often drive down there to get there guns.

I dont blame the guns

and vegas and i could go abck and forth posting studies.

[Vegas]

VA is known to have lax gun laws..people from NY often drive down there to get there guns.

I dont blame the guns

and vegas and i could go abck and forth posting studies.

So pnk, do you think stricter gun laws would have prevented the VT shooter from getting a gun?

[shmuck]

I think you need stricter gun laws. It might not have prevented the VT shooting, but it would prevent more deaths overall.

I figure it doesn't take much for someone to get pissed off, go buy a gun, then go kill someone these days.

[Vegas]

I think you need stricter gun laws. It might not have prevented the VT shooting, but it would prevent more deaths overall.

I figure it doesn't take much for someone to get pissed off, go buy a gun, then go kill someone these days.

What do you mean by stricter gun laws?

I ask because people who say that generally don't know what gun laws already exist.

[shmuck]

What do you mean by stricter gun laws?

I ask because people who say that generally don't know what gun laws already exist.

I can't say because I don't know. I have no idea how they would do it to make stricter gun laws, but it should be harder for people to buy a gun. That's what I'm trying to say.

[pnkpanther]

So pnk, do you think stricter gun laws would have prevented the VT shooter from getting a gun?

nope.

when did i say that? i just said VA is known for lax gun laws, which they are. And many palces there have been busted for selling guns illegally.

[pnkpanther]

in virginia you need two forms of ID and they run a quick check, you can get your gun in very short time frame

[pnkpanther]

i've added a new idea to my gun control

you need a license to drive, you should need to get gun safety training and certified before owning a hand gun.

[shmuck]

in virginia you need two forms of ID and they run a quick check, you can get your gun in very short time frame


See I just don't think that's enough. I mean hell, I could get a gun from there in under an hour. Like I said, I don't know how they'd do it, but they need stricter rules regarding selling guns.

Another thing, has the NRA showed up in Virginia yet? I remember they showed up in Columbine right after that happened.

[shmuck]

i've added a new idea to my gun control

you need a license to drive, you should need to get gun safety training and certified before owning a hand gun.

That's a great idea. You are always going to have illegal guns and people selling them out of a car trunk, but that would be a lot harder to get I would assume.

[pnkpanther]

Vegas-do you think our law officials are lying when they say they succesfully used gun permits to track terrorist? that they now can no longer due thanks to John Ashcroft

[pnkpanther]

See I just don't think that's enough. I mean hell, I could get a gun from there in under an hour. Like I said, I don't know how they'd do it, but they need stricter rules regarding selling guns.

Another thing, has the NRA showed up in Virginia yet? I remember they showed up in Columbine right after that happened.

being a canadian you'd need

ID card and a document with a matching address (checkbook, utility bill) and a third form of photo ID

[Reagan Smash]

One thing I believe. You shouldn't be able to order guns online.

[BoredWithNoSB]

One thing I believe. You shouldn't be able to order guns online.

or get them from a drive-thru establishment.

[Vegas]

Vegas-do you think our law officials are lying when they say they succesfully used gun permits to track terrorist? that they now can no longer due thanks to John Ashcroft

I do not believe that. Criminals don't buy guns through legal means the vast majority of the time.

[Vegas]

One thing I believe. You shouldn't be able to order guns online.

Buying guns through mail order has been illegal since the gun control act of 1968.

[Vegas]

nope.

when did i say that? i just said VA is known for lax gun laws, which they are. And many palces there have been busted for selling guns illegally.

I didn't mean to imply that you did say that. It was a question.

[IBC]

I do not believe that. Criminals don't buy guns through legal means the vast majority of the time.

He did. Over the internet too.

[pnkpanther]

I do not believe that. Criminals don't buy guns through legal means the vast majority of the time.

link?

[pnkpanther]

i believe the guns used in columbine were purchased legally as well

hell, there have been arms dealers that have openly admitted they used to be able to buy guns here legally and export them.

[pnkpanther]

I do not believe that. Criminals don't buy guns through legal means the vast majority of the time.

damn i cant edit my original reply

i'd like a link showing that, otherwise i jsut dont buy it

and 2, so you think the FBI is lying when they said they succesfully tracked terrorist using gun permit applications?

[Vegas]

damn i cant edit my original reply

i'd like a link showing that, otherwise i jsut dont buy it



http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm

Offenders

According to the 1997 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those possessing a gun, the source of the gun was from -
o a flea market or gun show for fewer than 2%
o a retail store or pawnshop for about 12%
o family, friends, a street buy, or an illegal source for 80%

[Jiddy78]

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm

Offenders

According to the 1997 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those possessing a gun, the source of the gun was from -
o a flea market or gun show for fewer than 2%
o a retail store or pawnshop for about 12%
o family, friends, a street buy, or an illegal source for 80%

Where did the "family and friends" get it....I swear, anecdotally, that every single handgun shooting has a caption "the gun was REGISTERED TO......."

I'll give it this...Normally, the registrant isn't the shooter...but the fact remains that, from what I SEE, that most of the guns involved in murders are, indeed, registered guns.


Sooooo....For me, it really comes down to if we feel that the law is capable of controlling illegal handguns from getting into the country....Based on the fact that every person in the country thinks cheating taxes is "creating fairness" and "pushing through" their buddies mortgage is "good business"...I'd say I have to side with righties on this issue...The guns would be here...Just like the drugs...Just like the tax cheats...Just like the frauds.....And last, but certainly not least, just like the murderers.

Go ahead and purchase your tool of defense...

[pnkpanther]

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm

Offenders

According to the 1997 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those possessing a gun, the source of the gun was from -
o a flea market or gun show for fewer than 2%
o a retail store or pawnshop for about 12%
o family, friends, a street buy, or an illegal source for 80%

ok, that shows that rate of inmates who own a gun illegally, not people who commit crimes with illegally owned guns.

different thing....

[Vegas]

ok, that shows that rate of inmates who own a gun illegally, not people who commit crimes with illegally owned guns.

different thing....

So do you think that when these types decide to use a gun to commit a crime that they go buy them legally?

[pnkpanther]

So do you think that when these types decide to use a gun to commit a crime that they go buy them legally?

you still need to sort out the stat's, not all crimes with guns are used by career criminal's.

also making guns harder to get legally, makes them harder to get illegally as well

[Vegas]

you still need to sort out the stat's, not all crimes with guns are used by career criminal's.

also making guns harder to get legally, makes them harder to get illegally as well

Making guns harder to get legally makes them more expensive to get illegally, not harder to get illegally.

[pnkpanther]

Making guns harder to get legally makes them more expensive to get illegally, not harder to get illegally.

id say making them more expensive makes em harder to get

simple supply/demand

demand stays same, supply is decreased

[Vegas]

id say making them more expensive makes em harder to get

simple supply/demand

demand stays same, supply is decreased

But the point remains that anyone who really wants one will get one.

[pnkpanther]

But the point remains that anyone who really wants one will get one.

we'll never rid of guns

we wont.

but my point remains, reduce supply, reduce the problem

i'll use your tactic of comparasions, but this one works

Drug companys fought US government on making cold medicine still an OTC drug, but behind the counter and swiping license and limiting boxes. It's been proven in war on drugs, reduce supply, reduce usage.

I dont have article, but meth production is down. everytime we've cut supply of effedrin (spelling) meth usage has decreased, they may find away around it, but eventually we'll get it right.

[Jiddy78]

Making guns harder to get legally makes them more expensive to get illegally, not harder to get illegally.

Everything has its price...Guns...P*ssy...homes...integrity...You name it...I think of it as "opportunistic"...A semi-free market. Thanks for verifying this fact. People get mad at me when I tell them paper money will get you anything, even if the law states otherwise.

[MTVike]

More fun and games.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18270556/?GT1=9246

The fact that people get drunk and drugged up out of their minds is reason enough to control/restrict handguns.

Most of the deaths by handgun involve these elements and/or mental illness.

Shit, watch an episode of Gunsmoke it you need proof. ;) (You know they rate that show "G" on TV Land? WTF?)

[Jiddy78]

More fun and games.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18270556/?GT1=9246

The fact that people get drunk and drugged up out of their minds is reason enough to control/restrict handguns.

Most of the deaths by handgun involve these elements and/or mental illness.

Shit, watch an episode of Gunsmoke it you need proof. ;) (You know they rate that show "G" on TV Land? WTF?)


Police say duo refused to drop gun; bungalow rents for $2,200 a night


F*cking renters will ruin this world.

[Vegas]

we'll never rid of guns

we wont.

but my point remains, reduce supply, reduce the problem

i'll use your tactic of comparasions, but this one works

Drug companys fought US government on making cold medicine still an OTC drug, but behind the counter and swiping license and limiting boxes. It's been proven in war on drugs, reduce supply, reduce usage.

I dont have article, but meth production is down. everytime we've cut supply of effedrin (spelling) meth usage has decreased, they may find away around it, but eventually we'll get it right.

I don't dispute that reducing the availability of pseudoephedrine has made meth harder to make and has made it somewhat less available. They still sell it in unlimited amounts in Mexico, though.

Guns are a different matter. They aren't consumed at the same rate as pseudoephedrine. They can be re-used and re-sold and they exist in great numbers.

[MTVike]

I don't dispute that reducing the availability of pseudoephedrine has made meth harder to make and has made it somewhat less available. They still sell it in unlimited amounts in Mexico, though.

Guns are a different matter. They aren't consumed at the same rate as pseudoephedrine. They can be re-used and re-sold and they exist in great numbers.

Let's go door-to-door, ask for them back and then melt them down like they did with disco music in the 80's.

Is it possible to restrict the sale of ammo and materials to reload cartridges for these weapons somehow? Phase out the ammo unless you can show you have a legitimate purpose for firing one?

Not gonna change things by tomorrow, no matter what is done, unfortunately.

[pnkpanther]

i believe mexico imports 3 times amount they need of psuedoephedrin to handle their cold medicine needs


But Frontline did a very good piece on Meth usage...painted drug companies to be evil (which they are)

[Jiddy78]

i believe mexico imports 3 times amount they need of psuedoephedrin to handle their cold medicine needs


But Frontline did a very good piece on Meth usage...painted drug companies to be evil (which they are)

Drug companies create jobs...thus they are good. Anything that creates jobs is good.

Casinos? Good.

Brothels? Good.

Gun shops? Good.

Abortion clinics? Good.

Gay bars? Good.

Condom companies? Good.

Crackhouses? Good.


...All good...So long as they pay their taxes...If they don't? Bribe somebody...If not either? F*cking destroy them...Fox News on line 2 baby.

[Vegas]

i believe mexico imports 3 times amount they need of psuedoephedrin to handle their cold medicine needs


But Frontline did a very good piece on Meth usage...painted drug companies to be evil (which they are)

Why are drug companies evil? They provide valuable products that save and better lives.

[pnkpanther]

Why are drug companies evil? They provide valuable products that save and better lives.

i kid a bit and am serious a bit too

they're political influence to be able to continually control prices above supply and demand is insane.

i think it's a sham that they stick it to those and need, and there reasons for preventing imported drugs is crock

and they're refusal to accept simple move of their product behind the counter, acting like they were concerned for the customers privacy, they were worried abotu profit loss

[IBC]

i kid a bit and am serious a bit too

they're political influence to be able to continually control prices above supply and demand is insane.

i think it's a sham that they stick it to those and need, and there reasons for preventing imported drugs is crock

and they're refusal to accept simple move of their product behind the counter, acting like they were concerned for the customers privacy, they were worried abotu profit loss

But they need money for research!

[pnkpanther]

But they need money for research!

even after their high R and D expenditures and massive political contributions their profit margin is far higher then that of most fortune 500 companies.

Goverment let them right the new medicaid bill which basically says Government cant negotiate a price for the drugs, which is odd, cause every other government funded health care they pay less then billed (and the difference is shifted to private insurance)

[IBC]

even after their high R and D expenditures and massive political contributions their profit margin is far higher then that of most fortune 500 companies.

Goverment let them right the new medicaid bill which basically says Government cant negotiate a price for the drugs, which is odd, cause every other government funded health care they pay less then billed (and the difference is shifted to private insurance)

Forgot this:)

Most everything they put out these days has a drug on the market that does the same thing. Most copycat drugs are no better than what we already have.

[Jiddy78]

Why are drug companies evil? They provide valuable products that save and better lives.


130 grand to put pills in a bottle? I think they're great...if you're in the industry.

Pushin' pills is the new computer programming. Crappyass 2 year worthless degrees in pharmacy demand should be huge as the word spreads...Mmmmm...I can see the wonderfully delicious late night commercials now.

[pnkpanther]

130 grand to put pills in a bottle? I think they're great...if you're in the industry.

Pushin' pills is the new computer programming. Crappyass 2 year worthless degrees in pharmacy demand should be huge as the word spreads...Mmmmm...I can see the wonderfully delicious late night commercials now.

my friends borther is a phramacist, major dough

they're actually a shortage of them