Romney's plan

[Jiddy78]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/19/us/politics/19romney.html?ex=1358485200&en=6db5dea123f9afdd&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss


I don't like the dramatic cut on corporate taxes. I DO like eliminating income tax on SS tax (Always thought that was bullsh*t out of principle) even though it helps the evil boomer empire. The rest is doable IMO.

I think I'm becoming more geared toward a "You public sector f*cks can make due with what we give ya and like it" attitude.

[LSU]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/19/us/politics/19romney.html?ex=1358485200&en=6db5dea123f9afdd&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss


I don't like the dramatic cut on corporate taxes. I DO like eliminating income tax on SS tax (Always thought that was bullsh*t out of principle) even though it helps the evil boomer empire. The rest is doable IMO.

I think I'm becoming more geared toward a "You public sector f*cks can make due with what we give ya and like it" attitude.


What does he plan on cutting, or is it a spend the same/more with less income?

I don't mind cutting corporate taxes, depending on what's actually being cut, but he better either cut spending or increase taxes elsewhere to make up for them.


edit: of course, this assumes that the increased money for the corporations actually trickles down to the common workers as opposed to just getting spread out among CEOs and stockholders...which I highly doubt would happen.

[LSU]

What's with the cuts geard toward old fogies? They're tighter than a drum. You wanna stimulate the econonomy, give the money to the young generation. I need a playstation 3.

[Jiddy78]

What does he plan on cutting, or is it a spend the same/more with less income?

I don't mind cutting corporate taxes, depending on what's actually being cut, but he better either cut spending or increase taxes elsewhere to make up for them.


edit: of course, this assumes that the increased money for the corporations actually trickles down to the common workers as opposed to just getting spread out among CEOs and stockholders...which I highly doubt would happen.


Trickle down is like socialism in that they both are very irrelevant in real life situations IMO. But that's a theory...Only one has been a proven failure. But with what I see in front of my eyes...The other is not far behind. But...You play the hand yer dealt, right?

[IBC]

Trickle down is like socialism in that they both are very irrelevant in real life situations IMO. But that's a theory...Only one has been a proven failure. But with what I see in front of my eyes...The other is not far behind. But...You play the hand yer dealt, right?

I absolutely believe trickle down is a proven failure.

[LSU]

I absolutely believe trickle down is a proven failure.


Just like socialism (or probably more accurately communism), it's only a failure to the people it doesn't benefit.

[IBC]

Just like socialism (or probably more accurately communism), it's only a failure to the people it doesn't benefit.
Agreed.

[LSU]

Aren't there some countries in Europe that socialist or close to it? I can't think of the country, but I was watching a show one time about whatever country, and they talked about the tax rate, and it was something like 40-50% or something God awful like that. However, the people they talked to had no problem. They realized it was a high rate, but they were happy with all that was available to them through the gov't. Of course, it wasn't a large country (for some reason, I'm thinking it's Switzerland), so maybe the population size makes it work...or maybe it's just on a high right now and a crash is coming soon, or whatever.

And don't get your BVDs in a bunch, I'm not asking this question to give an example as a reason why we should go socialist...that's not the purpose. Just wondering about this relative to Jiddy's post about one system already failed with the other being pretty close in regards to socialism and trickle down.

[IBC]

Aren't there some countries in Europe that socialist or close to it? I can't think of the country, but I was watching a show one time about whatever country, and they talked about the tax rate, and it was something like 40-50% or something God awful like that. However, the people they talked to had no problem. They realized it was a high rate, but they were happy with all that was available to them through the gov't. Of course, it wasn't a large country (for some reason, I'm thinking it's Switzerland), so maybe the population size makes it work...or maybe it's just on a high right now and a crash is coming soon, or whatever.

And don't get your BVDs in a bunch, I'm not asking this question to give an example as a reason why we should go socialist...that's not the purpose. Just wondering about this relative to Jiddy's post about one system already failed with the other being pretty close in regards to socialism and trickle down.
Yes, there are multiple countries in Europe that are like that. Close to socialism, but not quite there. Works well for them. We are too big and too poor to start with at this point. They have great systems of medicine, social services, roads, retirement.... all that good stuff. Their economies aren't shit either. Very good, stable countries. They are definitely mixed though, not pure socialisms.

[IBC]

Economy

Main article: Economy of Norway

Norway possesses the second highest GDP per-capita (after Luxembourg) and third highest GDP (PPP) per-capita in the world, and has maintained first place in the world in the UNDP Human Development Index (HDI) for six consecutive years (2001-2006). However, in 2007 Iceland very narrowly beat Norway as the #1 place to live according to the Human Development Index.

Cost of living is about 30% higher in Norway than in the United States and 25% higher than the United Kingdom.

The Norwegian economy is an example of mixed economy, featuring a combination of free market activity and large government ownership. The government controls key areas, such as the strategic petroleum sector (StatoilHydro), hydroelectric energy production Statkraft), aluminium production (Norsk Hydro), the largest Norwegian bank (DnB NOR) and telecommunication provider (Telenor). The government controls 31.6% of publicly listed companies. When non-listed companies are included the state has even higher share in ownership (mainly from direct oil license ownership).

The control mechanisms over petroleum resources are a combination of state ownership in major operators in the Norwegian fields (StatoilHydro approx. 62% in 2007) and the fully state owned Petoro (market value of about twice Statoil) and SDFI. Finally the government controls licensing of exploration and production of fields.

The country is richly endowed with natural resources including petroleum, hydropower, fish, forests, and minerals. Norway has obtained one of the highest standards of living in the world in part by having a large amount of natural resources compared to the size of population. The income from natural resources include a significant contribution from petroleum production and the substantial and well-managed income related to this sector. Norway also has a very low unemployment rate, currently below 2% (June 2007). The hourly productivity levels, as well as average hourly wages in Norway are among the highest in the world. The egalitarian values of the Norwegian society[citation needed] ensure that the wage difference between the lowest paid worker and the CEO of most companies is much smaller than in comparable western economies.[citation needed]

In 2006, oil and gas accounted for 58% of exports.[citation needed] Only Russia and OPEC member Saudi Arabia export more oil than Norway, which is not an OPEC member. To reduce over-heating from oil-money, the uncertainty from the oil income volatility, and save money for an aging population, the Norwegian state started in 1995 to save petroleum income (taxes, dividends, licensing, sales) in a Sovereign wealth fund ("Government Pension Fund - Global"). This also reduces the boom and bust cycle associated with raw material production and the marginalization of non-oil industry (see also Dutch Disease).

Because of its size the fund is invested in developed financial markets outside Norway. The budgetary rule ("Handlingsregelen") is to spend no more than 4% of the fund each year (assumed to be the normal yield from the fund ). By January 2006, the Fund was at USD 200 billion. During the first half of 2007, the pension fund became the largest fund in Europe, totaling about USD 300 billion, equivalent to over USD 62,000 per capita. This means that the Norwegian state has savings equal to 100% of the Norwegian GDP. Already (April 2007), Norway has the largest capital reserve per capita of any nation. Projections indicate that the Norwegian pension fund is set to become the largest capital fund in the world. Conservative estimates tell that the fund may reach USD 800-900 billion by 2017. Other natural resource-based economies (examples: Russia and Chile) are trying to learn from Norway by establishing similar funds.

The future size of the fund is of course closely linked to the oil price and the developments in international financial markets in which the fund is invested. At an average oil price of USD 100 per barrel, the state budget surplus for 2008 is expected to reach USD 80 billion.

Referendums in 1972 and 1994 indicated that the Norwegian people wished to remain outside the European Union (EU). However, Norway, together with Iceland and Liechtenstein, participates in the European Union's single market via the European Economic Area (EEA) agreement. The EEA Treaty between the European Union countries and the EFTA countries – transposed into Norwegian law via "EØS-loven"[17] – describes the procedures for implementing European Union rules in Norway and the other EFTA countries. This makes Norway a highly integrated member of most sectors of the EU internal market. However, some sectors, such as agriculture, oil and fish, are not wholly covered by the EEA Treaty. Norway has also acceded to the Schengen Agreement and several other intergovernmental agreements between the EU member states.

In 2000, the government sold one-third of the then 100% state-owned oil company Statoil in an IPO. The next year, the main telecom supplier, Telenor, was listed on Oslo Stock Exchange. The state also owns significant shares of Norway's biggest bank, DnB NOR and the airline SAS. Since 2000, economic growth has been rapid, pushing unemployment down to levels not seen since the early 1980s.

The national currency is the Norwegian kron

[IBC]

Economy

Main article: Economy of Switzerland
See also: List of Swiss companies, Swiss bank, and Merchant Marine of Switzerland

Tourism is important in the Engadin valley above St. Moritz
Tourism is important in the Engadin valley above St. Moritz
Cheese making and dairying is an important Swiss industry
Cheese making and dairying is an important Swiss industry

Switzerland has a stable modern mixed market economy, with a nominal per capita GDP that is higher than those of the larger western European economies, the United States, and Japan ranking 6th behind Luxembourg, Norway, Qatar, Iceland and Ireland. If adjusted for purchasing power parity it ranks 13th. The World Economic Forum's Global Competitiveness Report currently ranks Switzerland's economy as the most competitive in the world.[18] For much of the 20th century, Switzerland was the wealthiest country in Europe by a considerable margin.[19] Its median household income in 2003 was an estimated 96,000 CHF, the equaivalent of roughly $54,000 USD in pucharsing power parity, considerably higher than in other post-industrial-countries, such as the U.S., Canada or UK.[20]

Switzerland is home to several large multinational corporations. Notable among these are Nestle, UBS AG, Zurich Financial Services, Credit Suisse, Novartis, Roche, ABB, Swiss Re, and The Swatch Group. Switzerland is ranked as one of the most powerful economies in the world.[19]

Banking, tourism, pharmaceuticals, and chemicals are important industries in Switzerland. The manufacture of precision instruments for engineering is important, as is watch-making, and the biological sciences industries as well enjoy a high place in the Swiss economy. The many international organizations in Switzerland contribute to the Swiss economy and labor market.

Switzerland's unemployment rate has increased since the beginning of the 21st century, where it stood at a low 1.8% in 2001. The unemployment rate doubled due to problematic low economic growth to 3.9% in 2006 and decreased again to 3.3% in 2007. [21]

[Jiddy78]

I absolutely believe trickle down is a proven failure.

Where? (If it is one of the two prior long posts, I apologize. I haven't read them yet.)

[IBC]

Where? (If it is one of the two prior long posts, I apologize. I haven't read them yet.)

No, those were just some summaries of countries that have mixed economies in Europe. I think it has been a failure here. It did not take people out of poverty, it did little to help the overall well-being in our country, and was essentially a hand-out to the rich.

[ryr8828]

I'm leaning towards Romney since my guy gave up.

My son keeps telling me to show some balls and vote for Ron Paul.

[LSU]

I'm leaning towards Romney since my guy gave up.

My son keeps telling me to show some balls and vote for Ron Paul.


That would be quite a turnaround for you re: Iraq.

Romney is the Republicans equivalent to Kerry.

[IBC]

I'm leaning towards Romney since my guy gave up.

My son keeps telling me to show some balls and vote for Ron Paul.

Romney is damn handsome.

[LSU]

Romney is damn handsome.


Must mean he's gay.

[ryr8828]

That would be quite a turnaround for you re: Iraq.

Romney is the Republicans equivalent to Kerry.

Educate me.

[ryr8828]

Must mean he's gay.

How could a guy with 12 wives be gay?

[LSU]

Educate me.



RE: Iraq, you support the move up and down, Paul wants to wash his hands of the whole thing as well as a lot of other foreign presence

RE: Kerry, rich guy that can't make up his mind on an issue and looks like a complete stiff.

[LSU]

How could a guy with 12 wives be gay?

Overcompensation.

[IBC]

Must mean he's gay.

Yep. Wonder how much that haircut cost?

Speaking of... anyone see Ann Coulters ridiculous claim about the Confederate Flag? She just flat out lied man. Hilarious.

[Vegas]

Who pays corporate income taxes? The company or its customers?

[ryr8828]

RE: Iraq, you support the move up and down, Paul wants to wash his hands of the whole thing as well as a lot of other foreign presence

RE: Kerry, rich guy that can't make up his mind on an issue and looks like a complete stiff.

Ok, I thought your post was one sentence and it confused me, as in all about Romney.

[LSU]

Ok, I thought your post was one sentence and it confused me, as in all about Romney.


I will also say it's no different that if I ended up voting for McCain, though...his thoughts on the war are much different than mine.

[ryr8828]

I will also say it's no different that if I ended up voting for McCain, though...his thoughts on the war are much different than mine.

Thompson was the only person I agreed with.

Now I have to make a choice and balance the flaws.

[LSU]

Thompson was the only person I agreed with.

Now I have to make a choice and balance the flaws.


There are a few flaws I can't bet past for a few candidates

Hillary - America was not meant to be a dynasty (Bush/Clinton in office since 1980)
Romney - ingenuine (however, Kerry was much of the same, but he had the advantage of not being named Bush...his only advantage, but a strong one)
Giuliani - the onion had a great article of Rudy running for president of 9/11...he's got zilch going for him


I think that's it as far as those that I cannot fathom any way I'd vote for them.

I don't think Paul stands a chance to make it all the way. My nightmare matchup would be Hillary v Romney. If that were the case, either I don't vote, or I hope for a Bloomberg candidacy.

[ryr8828]

There are a few flaws I can't bet past for a few candidates

Hillary - America was not meant to be a dynasty (Bush/Clinton in office since 1980)
Romney - ingenuine (however, Kerry was much of the same, but he had the advantage of not being named Bush...his only advantage, but a strong one)
Giuliani - the onion had a great article of Rudy running for president of 9/11...he's got zilch going for him


I think that's it as far as those that I cannot fathom any way I'd vote for them.

I don't think Paul stands a chance to make it all the way. My nightmare matchup would be Hillary v Romney. If that were the case, either I don't vote, or I hope for a Bloomberg candidacy.

But

Romney's a real nice guy.

[Jiddy78]

No, those were just some summaries of countries that have mixed economies in Europe. I think it has been a failure here. It did not take people out of poverty, it did little to help the overall well-being in our country, and was essentially a hand-out to the rich.

I think we agree on the outcome of it...but I still think it is in doubt...I see a whole sh*t ton of people living large that even make an effort...be that to work hard or cheat the government...Pick your poison.

[BoredWithNoSB]

Bah, just do some reading on Bain Capital. Biggest scam ever. Read about what they're doign to companies like Domino's and BK (buying them, having them borrow large sums of cash, pay that and all existing cash reserves of the company out in one-time dividend, then sell them before they collapse.) They do all of this without paying income taxes. They get the DRD on the dividend distribution, and then get to claim a capital loss when they sell the company.

Bain Capital is the devil.

Romney was part of this evil.

[Jiddy78]

Bah, just do some reading on Bain Capital. Biggest scam ever. Read about what they're doign to companies like Domino's and BK (buying them, having them borrow large sums of cash, pay that and all existing cash reserves of the company out in one-time dividend, then sell them before they collapse.) They do all of this without paying income taxes. They get the DRD on the dividend distribution, and then get to claim a capital loss when they sell the company.

Bain Capital is the devil.

Romney was part of this evil.

There's a story like this for all the candidates somewhere...Fraud, hookers and booze. It isn't really that hard to figure out. I'm sure the Hamptons are rockin' 365 days out of the year...