Are people inherently good or inherently evil?

[Jiddy78]

Go.

[Vegas]

Evil.

[BoredWithNoSB]

Jiddy:

Bump, set,

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070411/BUSINESS07/70411054

[Jiddy78]

Jiddy:

Bump, set,

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070411/BUSINESS07/70411054


Seriously...I'm numb to them now there's so many similar...They can't make prisons large enough for all of it...So we just live in the cell daily with them.

[Jiddy78]

Evil.

Really? I would've figured you "good"....I used to be "good"....I swear...Not too long ago...Man, what a f*cking u-turn that became.

[Vegas]

Really? I would've figured you "good"....I used to be "good"....I swear...Not too long ago...Man, what a f*cking u-turn that became.

Romans 3:10 As it is written: There is no one righteous, not even one

[MTVike]

Evil.

But for the grace of God?

[Jiddy78]

Romans 3:10 As it is written: There is no one righteous, not even one

Is half righteous too much to ask?

[Vegas]

Is half righteous too much to ask?

I believe so.

[Jiddy78]

I believe so.

Smoke 'em if ya got 'em.

[MTVike]

How 'bout this, Jiddy: Is money the root of all evil? Or is it the want of money?

"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

There may be something to this. Not to hijack this into a religious thread, but anyway...

Some folks at church were talking about a brief mission they did to Peru. These people lived in poverty by our standards, but their basic needs for food and shelter were met.

They were described as uniformly happy and generous with what they had. They all had little to nothing in the way of possessions, so class/property envy didn't exist. Their families were intact. There was little to no crime.

Makes you wonder..

[Jiddy78]

How 'bout this, Jiddy: Is money the root of all evil? Or is it the want of money?

"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

There may be something to this. Not to hijack this into a religious thread, but anyway...

Some folks at church were talking about a brief mission they did to Peru. These people lived in poverty by our standards, but their basic needs for food and shelter were met.

They were described as uniformly happy and generous with what they had. They all had little to nothing in the way of possessions, so class/property envy didn't exist. Their families were intact. There was little to no crime.

Makes you wonder..

You only care if you care.

Case in point (or exhibit A, if you will) is me regarding housing:

A very touchy line is being crossed when you blur the lines between a home and investment IMO....especially after years of pumping up a home as "The American Dream"...People are feeding off this dream...thus they are abusing their brethren. No doubt in my mind.

[pnkpanther]

i think people are inheritantly narcistic

[MTVike]

i think people are inheritantly narcistic

Many are, but it's no way to live. Unless you like to be alone. Most of us grow out of that stage by early childhood, when we realize we have to give and take with the people around us, usually our families.

But think of the Hollywood and sports celebs, richies. Those that have everything they want and really believe they're are something special. As soon as a relationship involves conflict or discord, which they invariably do after the infatuation phase passes, it's all "I'm outa here!"

And the cycle begins again.

[LSU]

I think people are inherently good. Society and environment mucks them up.

[MTVike]

I think people are inherently good. Society and environment mucks them up.

Tabula rosa?

[LSU]

Tabla rosa?



I don't speak french.

[Jiddy78]

i think people are inheritantly narcistic


That was a really bad one...Even by your standards.

[MTVike]

That was a really bad one...Even by your standards.

Thing is, you always know what he means.

[Jiddy78]

Many are, but it's no way to live. Unless you like to be alone. Most of us grow out of that stage by early childhood, when we realize we have to give and take with the people around us, usually our families.

But think of the Hollywood and sports celebs, richies. Those that have everything they want and really believe they're are something special. As soon as a relationship involves conflict or discord, which they invariably do after the infatuation phase passes, it's all "I'm outa here!"

And the cycle begins again.

One could argue that children are more pure and honest in their actions and reactions. "Realization" comes with a price. But which way is...right?

[MTVike]

I don't speak french.

Stick a "u" between the b and l. Help?

[Jiddy78]

Thing is, you always know what he means.

Yep..."I need to get laid"

:p :p :p

Kidding pnkster.

[LSU]

Stick a "u" between the b and l. Help?



How is a Polish translation going to help?

[MTVike]

One could argue that children are more pure and honest in their actions and reactions. "Realization" comes with a price. But which way is...right?

Certainly babies and young children are self-centered. They need to be to insure their needs are met for survival. Once the "realization" occurs that they will be taken care of (security needs) then it's time to take other people into account. With that, moral development (hopefully) begins.

[LSU]

Certainly babies and young children are self-centered. They need to be sure their needs are met for survival. Once the "realization" occurs that they will be taken care of (security needs) then it's time to take other people into account. With that, moral development (hopefully) begins.


What happened before morals? Was there a "before morals"?

[Jiddy78]

Certainly babies and young children are self-centered. They need to be to insure their needs are met for survival. Once the "realization" occurs that they will be taken care of (security needs) then it's time to take other people into account. With that, moral development (hopefully) begins.

Self-centered? Or in the process of becoming self-sufficient? Isn't that how one grows...To "not" require the assistance of others? I figure that is natural...to become "self-sufficient"...not "self-centered"....At least IMO.

[MTVike]

What happened before morals? Was there a "before morals"?

I think empathy and moral development is critical to the social unit and society at large. Isn't it the basis for most law?

I can't answer your question completely. I wasn't there at the dawn of man. I do think Christianity outlines the plan pretty well, though.

[Jiddy78]

I think empathy and moral development is critical to the social unit and society at large. Isn't it the basis for most law?

I can't answer your question completely. I wasn't there at the dawn of man. I do think Christianity outlines the plan pretty well, though.

That's not possible in a society with differing social classes...thus it is not possible period. Sympathy perhaps? Although, one from a lower order might view that as condescending....

Are we to the point of agreement about blood in the streets yet?

[LSU]

I think empathy and moral development is critical to the social unit and society at large. Isn't it the basis for most law?

I can't answer your question completely. I wasn't there at the dawn of man. I do think Christianity outlines the plan pretty well, though.


So, breaking the law is immoral...IF laws are based on morality.


We may be talking on different levels though...you talk society and such and more present situation...I'm going for the species as a whole in the whole of time...back before laws...cave people times...Geico type stuff...those cavemen seem like good guys.

[MTVike]

Self-centered? Or in the process of becoming self-sufficient? Isn't that how one grows...To "not" require the assistance of others? I figure that is natural...to become "self-sufficient"...not "self-centered"....At least IMO.

Self-centered in this case is a completely nonpejorative term. The baby is completely dependent upon the world around it and will scream out whenever one of its basic needs has to be met. Only later do they come to associate the fulfillment of needs with an other, usually the parent. Then comes dependency/love, then around 3-4, sharing, and eventually the ability to take another's point of view.

Self-sufficient is an accountant's term. Happens way down the line.

[MTVike]

That's not possible in a society with differing social classes...thus it is not possible period. Sympathy perhaps? Although, one from a lower order might view that as condescending....

Are we to the point of agreement about blood in the streets yet?

What? Haven't you seen Pretty Woman?

[MTVike]

So, breaking the law is immoral...IF laws are based on morality.


We may be talking on different levels though...you talk society and such and more present situation...I'm going for the species as a whole in the whole of time...back before laws...cave people times...Geico type stuff...those cavemen seem like good guys.

I did the caveman survival aspect too, before I deleted it.

Sociologists would definitely define love/empathy/compassion in adaptive terms.

Seems so damn cold.

They never considered Mother Theresa, Ghandi, or Christ in their analyses, though.

[MTVike]

Are we to the point of agreement about blood in the streets yet?

I live in Montana and I own a gun.

I will outlast you.

[Jiddy78]

Self-centered in this case is a completely nonpejorative term. The baby is completely dependent upon the world around it and will scream out whenever one of its basic needs has to be met. Only later do they come to associate the fulfillment of needs with an other, usually the parent. Then comes dependency/love, then around 3-4, sharing, and eventually the ability to take another's point of view.

Self-sufficient is an accountant's term. Happens way down the line.


An accountant would see this as "self-sufficient" in its own happy kind of way.

"Feed me b*tch"

"I said FEED ME before I let this mother f*cker blow"

[LSU]

I did the caveman survival aspect too, before I deleted it.

Sociologists would definitely define love/empathy/compassion in adaptive terms.

Seems so damn cold.

They never considered Mother Theresa, Ghandi, or Christ in their analyses, though.


Instinct...what will it do? Even animals not as "high" as us have a sense of community and working together...taking care of each other...of course, all that can get kicked to the curb if the conditions are right...

[LSU]

I live in Montana and I own a gun.

I will outlast you.



I live in Louisiana and have a pellet gun.

I will...eat a lot of vegetables.

[MTVike]

An accountant would see this as "self-sufficient" in its own happy kind of way.

"Feed me b*tch"

"I said FEED ME before I let this mother f*cker blow"

http://http://www.gamerevolution.com/oldsite/previews/featured/gamecube/legend_of_zelda_twilight/legend_of_zelda_twilight_aud.jpg

"Feed me, Seymour!"

[Jiddy78]

http://http://www.gamerevolution.com/oldsite/previews/featured/gamecube/legend_of_zelda_twilight/legend_of_zelda_twilight_aud.jpg

"Feed me, Seymour!"

Now that I'm older...I need to see that play again so that I truly understand it and can either really like or dislike it properly....Rather than just go see it for the bigass plant.


Of course, regardless, like or dislike, I'll miss the days of just liking it for the bigass plant.

[Jiddy78]

I live in Louisiana and have a pellet gun.

I will...eat a lot of vegetables.

Organic vegetables no doubt.

[MTVike]

Instinct...what will it do? Even animals not as "high" as us have a sense of community and working together...taking care of each other...of course, all that can get kicked to the curb if the conditions are right...

So, how do you feel about your daughter? Do your feelings of love and protectiveness stem strictly from some more baser part of your brain? Just part of a chemical chain transferred through your DNA?

Just programmed in you as part of the species "survival plan"?

I can't get with that.

[LSU]

So, how do you feel about your daughter? Do your feelings of love and protectiveness stem strictly from some more baser part of your brain? Just part of a chemical chain transferred through your DNA?

Just programmed in you as part of the species "survival plan"?

I can't get with that.



I can. I think if knocked in the head hard enough, or a particular part of brain removed, or a particular chemical permanently blocked, most if not all of what I feel is gone.

That's why I'm going protect this massive head of mine the best I can, because I don't want her to go without it.

[Jiddy78]

So, how do you feel about your daughter? Do your feelings of love and protectiveness stem strictly from some more baser part of your brain? Just part of a chemical chain transferred through your DNA?

Just programmed in you as part of the species "survival plan"?

I can't get with that.

Somebody once told me that everything I felt was just a bunch of chemical reactions...I responded "Dude, you don't want to hear the chemicals speak right now."

I call bullsh*t. There's a soul in there somewhere.

If I could only prove it now....Ghosts are my best chance I reckon.

[MTVike]

Now that I'm older...I need to see that play again so that I truly understand it and can either really like or dislike it properly....Rather than just go see it for the bigass plant.


Of course, regardless, like or dislike, I'll miss the days of just liking it for the bigass plant.

Rent the movie. It's funny, plus it boils down some of the things we've been talking about quite nicely.

Love is the answer, baby.

[Jiddy78]

I can. I think if knocked in the head hard enough, or a particular part of brain removed, or a particular chemical permanently blocked, most if not all of what I feel is gone.

That's why I'm going protect this massive head of mine the best I can, because I don't want her to go without it.


Your avatar is telling me that you think with your cock all the time.

[Jiddy78]

Rent the movie. It's funny, plus it boils down some of the things we've been talking about quite nicely.

Love is the answer, baby.


Rick Moranis dude...Spare me that chemical reaction.

[LSU]

Your avatar is telling me that you think with your cock all the time.



Yep. Feathered.

[MTVike]

I can. I think if knocked in the head hard enough, or a particular part of brain removed, or a particular chemical permanently blocked, most if not all of what I feel is gone.

That's why I'm going protect this massive head of mine the best I can, because I don't want her to go without it.


Well of course, we're both animal and spiritual...human.

Down Syndrome children, who have limited cerebral cortex next to the rest of us, are some of the most loving and cheerful people you'd ever want to be around.

[LSU]

Somebody once told me that everything I felt was just a bunch of chemical reactions...I responded "Dude, you don't want to hear the chemicals speak right now."

I call bullsh*t. There's a soul in there somewhere.

If I could only prove it now....Ghosts are my best chance I reckon.


I don't disagree with what someone told you. But I don't think that means the feelings aren't real.

there might be a soul in there, there might not.

There's a lot more to the body (the brain in particular) than we know right now...

[LSU]

Well of course, we're both animal and spiritual...human.

Down Syndrome children, who have limited cerebral cortex next to the rest of us, are some of the most loving and cheerful people you'd ever want to be around.



I know.


Are there cases of amnesia where the patient doesn't remember their family? How do they feel about someone they think they've never met?

[MTVike]

Somebody once told me that everything I felt was just a bunch of chemical reactions...I responded "Dude, you don't want to hear the chemicals speak right now."

I call bullsh*t. There's a soul in there somewhere.

If I could only prove it now....Ghosts are my best chance I reckon.

There is no proof.

That's what makes it so challenging.

Have you visited LSU's Scientific Theory thread?

[LSU]

There is no proof.

That's what makes it so challenging.

Have you visited LSU's Scientific Theory thread?



The soul is not touched in that thread, nor did I mean it to be. The whole reason of the "science" thread was to talk about what could and couldn't be construed as science. I think the soul qualifies as "couldn't be".

[Jiddy78]

There is no proof.

That's what makes it so challenging.

Have you visited LSU's Scientific Theory thread?

That thread owns me. I just read.

[MTVike]

I know.


Are there cases of amnesia where the patient doesn't remember their family? How do they feel about someone they think they've never met?

Constantly thinking outside the box, you. Pisses me off.

Consider Alzheimer's disease? The total disintegration of a person's personality.

Wish I had a clue.

[MTVike]

The soul is not touched in that thread, nor did I mean it to be. The whole reason of the "science" thread was to talk about what could and couldn't be construed as science. I think the soul qualifies as "couldn't be".

Oh, I agree. Physical versus metaphysical subjects.

I'm amazed and astonished of your knowledge of biological science and equally impressed with Vegas' abilty to debate with you.

Not that I understand more than 50% of it.

[LSU]

Constantly thinking outside the box, you. Pisses me off.

Consider Alzheimer's disease? The total disintegration of a person's personality.

Wish I had a clue.



There using disease models of some spongiform encephalitises to study Alzheimers...they've had a few seminars here regarding it...there's also some evidence (very little right now) that some of these "prion" diseases might actually be caused by bacteria...

[MTVike]

I don't disagree with what someone told you. But I don't think that means the feelings aren't real.

there might be a soul in there, there might not.

There's a lot more to the body (the brain in particular) than we know right now...

In your spare time, you should read Listening to Prozac, by Peter Kramer.

This bozo thinks drugs developed by pharmacologists, namely Prozac, can make us BETTER than well or even normal.

Talk about your kick-started evolutionary advances.

[LSU]

Oh, I agree. Physical versus metaphysical subjects.

I'm amazed and astonished of your knowledge of biological science and equally impressed with Vegas' abilty to debate with you.

Not that I understand more than 50% of it.



Half the stuff I just made up to see if anyone did fact checking.

[LSU]

In your spare time, you should read Listening to Prozac, by Peter Kramer.

This bozo thinks drugs developed by pharmacologists, namely Prozac, can make us BETTER than well or even normal.

Talk about your kick-started evolutionary advances.



Sounds like an underdeveloped cerebral cortex right there.


and you should know...I have no spare time anymore.


Don't tell Jiddy.

[LSU]

Constantly thinking outside the box, you. Pisses me off.




Maybe I'm actually the one inside the box and everyone else is bouncing off the outside.

[LSU]

Oh, and don't get too excited about what I "know" regarding biology. It's my job...nothing special. Spend a dozen years studying something...some of it will stick. I'm certain I've forgotten more than I know...just like anybody else.

[MTVike]

There using disease models of some spongiform encephalitises to study Alzheimers...they've had a few seminars here regarding it...there's also some evidence (very little right now) that some of these "prion" diseases might actually be caused by bacteria...


I had read that is was some type of "plaque" that interfered with neuron function. Kinda like your teeth and dental disease.

Also that protective factors included exercise, good diet, continual learning, strong relatioinships, and religious/spiritual outlets.

So we can fight this disease with lifestyle habits and even beliefs/emotional health.

[LSU]

I had read that is was some type of "plaque" that interfered with neuron function. Kinda like your teeth and dental disease.

Also that protective factors included exercise, good diet, continual learning, strong relatioinships, and religious/spiritual outlets.

So we can fight this disease with lifestyle habits and even beliefs/emotional health.



yeah, I can't think of the chemical that builds up...I always forget it...just got it. Amyloid.


I think a good state of mind helps defend against most diseases...for reasons other than yourself, though...probably.

[MTVike]

Oh, and don't get too excited about what I "know" regarding biology. It's my job...nothing special. Spend a dozen years studying something...some of it will stick. I'm certain I've forgotten more than I know...just like anybody else.


BS. You're too modest. You are obviously well-read on a number of subjects and extremely bright.

And I can say that here because no one else will read it.

[LSU]

BS. You're too modest. You are obviously well-read on a number of subjects and extremely bright.

And I can say that here because no one else will read it.


I know a few things about a few things.

Facts are blah and can be looked up. I'm good with google when I need to be.

[MTVike]

I think a good state of mind helps defend against most diseases...for reasons other than yourself, though...probably.

That's the new frontier. We know exercise can improve cardiovascular health and overall adjustment. The chemicals flow and the muscles are conditioned.

But more subtle things such as religious belief and optimism? How do those factor affect us on a biological level and why?

[LSU]

That's the new frontier. We know exercise can improve cardiovascular health and overall adjustment. The chemicals flow and the muscles are conditioned.

But more subtle things such as religious belief and optimism? How do those factor affect us on a biological level and why?



Religion makes you feel better. The sense that something bigger than yourself is watching out for you and taking care of you. And if not taking care of you, taking care of your family.

That sense of well-being can certainly affect emotional status, especially in terms of stress. We both know how stress can take its toll on the body...it suppresses immune function through the body's release of corticosteroids...stress has its roots of evil in heart disease as well, and probably many more things.

So, by keeping yourself in a "right" state of mind, you don't put undo pressure on your body, and your body can function to fix itself.

[MTVike]

I know a few things about a few things.

Facts are blah and can be looked up. I'm good with google when I need to be.

Plagarizer.

http://sports-boards.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1672667&postcount=35

And with that, I look forward to exchanging with you another day.

[LSU]

Plagarizer.

http://sports-boards.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1672667&postcount=35

And with that, I look forward to exchanging with you another day.


Case closed.

[LSU]

Plagarizer.

http://sports-boards.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1672667&postcount=35

And with that, I look forward to exchanging with you another day.


actually, after reading the thread, that's paraphrasing, not plagiarizing.