Realistic history of Christianity

[Hotpapa666]

I thought it would be interesting to compile some historical facts about Christrianity.

Let's start early:

Here's some info about the church's activity in the middle ages:

http://www.borndigital.com/tinq.htm

A brief overview...

[KinjaKahn]

I thought it would be interesting to compile some historical facts about Christrianity.

Let's start early:

Here's some info about the church's activity in the middle ages:

http://www.borndigital.com/tinq.htm

A brief overview...

ROFL... I am convinced now. :D

[Hotpapa666]

ROFL... I am convinced now. :D


I'll post something every day or so, given 2000 years of attrocities I figure I'll have plenty of amo. :D

[Hotpapa666]

Here's a Wiki on the Catholic Church Sex Scandel:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases

I know this wiki isn't air-tight, there is probably a little misinformation in it but it is a pretty good overview.

[ryr8828]

Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. (1 John 2:18 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=English&version=NIV&passage=1+John+2:18) NIV) This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. (1 John 4:2-3 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=English&version=NIV&passage=1+John+4:2-3) NIV)





Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist--he denies the Father and the Son. (1 John 2:22 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=English&version=NIV&passage=1+John+2:22) NIV)

Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.(2 John 7 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=English&version=NIV&passage=2+John+7) NIV)

[swordfish]

I think the passage he is looking for is the one that grants immunity for murder. I feel this is the one problem with Christianity. The church will condemn and kill others, which goes against my interpretation of the bible. When you can justify murder in your own mind and in the mind of others I feel that the message of Christianity is lost.

[ryr8828]

Mr. 666,
You can find sins committed by Christians since the beginning of Christianity. Man is not perfect, thus the need for God's forgiveness. Then there are the intentional deceivers

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

and there is you and your ilk:
2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
2 Tim 4:4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

I see nothing in the TOS I wrote denying the antichrist posting privileges, so I suppose you may continue.

[Ed Who?]

Here's one for you, Hotpapa. I pray God opens your eyes.

Matthew 24:4-14 : Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,[a]' and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains.

"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. "

You just need to be careful.

[KinjaKahn]

Hotpapa... when the Christian death toll surpasses the 100,000,000 killed by your left wing commie atheist partners in crime Lenin/Trotsky/Stalin and the 30,000,000 million by your Chinese atheist comrades....


Let me know.

[Jiddy78]

Lotta antichrists out there:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Divine_Comedy

The last two circles of Hell punish sins that involve conscious fraud or treachery.


* Eighth Circle. The fraudulent—those guilty of deliberate, knowing evil—are located in a circle named Malebolge ("Evil Pockets"), divided into ten bolgie, or ditches of stone, with bridges spanning the ditches:
o Bolgia 1: Panderers and seducers walk in separate lines in opposite directions, whipped by demons. In the group of panderers the poets notice Venedico Caccianemico, and in the group of seducers Virgil points out Jason.(Canto XVIII)
o Bolgia 2: Flatterers are steeped in human excrement. (Canto XVIII)
o Bolgia 3: Those who committed simony are placed head-first in holes in the rock, with flames burning on the soles of their feet. One of them, Pope Nicholas III, denounces as simonists two of his successors, Pope Boniface VIII and Pope Clement V. (Canto XIX)
o Bolgia 4: Sorcerers and false prophets have their heads twisted around on their bodies backward, so they can only see what is behind them and not into the future.(Canto XX)
o Bolgia 5: Corrupt politicians (barrators) are immersed in a lake of boiling pitch, guarded by devils, the Malebranche ("Evil Claws"). Their leader, Malacoda ("Evil Tail"), assigns a troop to escort Virgil and Dante to the next bridge. The troop hook and torment Ciampolo, who identifies some Italian grafters and then tricks the Malebranche in order to escape back into the pitch. (Cantos XXI through XXIII)
o Bolgia 6: The bridge over this bolgia is broken: the poets climb down into it and find the Hypocrites listlessly walking along wearing gold-gilded lead cloaks. Dante speaks with Catalano and Loderingo, members of the Jovial Friars. It is also ironic in this canto that whilst in the company of hypocrites, the poets also discover that the guardians of the fraudulent (the malebranche) are hypocrites themselves, as they find that they have lied to them, giving false directions, when at the same time they are punishing liars for similar sins. (Canto XXIII)
o Bolgia 7: Thieves, guarded by the centaur (as Dante describes him) Cacus, are pursued and bitten by snakes. The snake bites make them undergo various transformations, with some resurrected after being turned to ashes, some mutating into new creatures, and still others exchanging natures with the snakes, becoming snakes themselves that chase the other thieves in turn. (Cantos XXIV and XXV)
o Bolgia 8: Fraudulent advisors are encased in individual flames. Dante includes Ulysses and Diomedes together here for their role in the Trojan War. Ulysses tells the tale of his fatal final voyage, where he left his home and family to sail to the end of the Earth. He equated life as a pursuit of knowledge that humanity can attain through effort, and in his search God sank his ship outside of Mount Purgatory. This symbolizes the inability of the individual to carve out one's own salvation. Instead, one must be totally subservient to the will of God and realize the inability of one to be a God unto oneself. Guido da Montefeltro recounts how his advice to Pope Boniface VIII resulted in his damnation, despite Boniface's promise of absolution. (Cantos XXVI and XXVII)
o Bolgia 9: A sword-wielding demon hacks at the sowers of discord. As they make their rounds the wounds heal, only to have the demon tear apart their bodies again. Muhammad tells Dante to warn the schismatic and heretic Fra Dolcino. (Cantos XXVIII and XXIX)
o Bolgia 10: Groups of various sorts of falsifiers (alchemists, counterfeiters, perjurers, and impersonators) are afflicted with different types of diseases. (Cantos XXIX and XXX)

[IBC]

Rapture!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jiddy78]

All that's left is pnky to bring in his divorce/remarriage/adultery/sin comments and this thread is complete. Well done everybody. Well done.

[IBC]

All that's left is pnky to bring in his divorce/remarriage/adultery/sin comments and this thread is complete. Well done everybody. Well done.

I can't stand the baby Jesus.... or homos..... or baby-killers.... or Bush.... WARMONGERS!!!!!!!!!

['Lifer]

This gets so confusing.

Where's all the Christian love?

[Emmanuel]

This gets so confusing.

Where's all the Christian love?
Here. (http://www.christianbale.net/)

I'll leave the low brow answer to the heathens.

[IBC]

Hotpapa... when the Christian death toll surpasses the 100,000,000 killed by your left wing commie atheist partners in crime Lenin/Trotsky/Stalin and the 30,000,000 million by your Chinese atheist comrades....


Let me know.
Lol

['Lifer]

Here. (http://www.christianbale.net/)

I'll leave the low brow answer to the heathens.

I'm afraid to enter that kingdom.

[Reagan Smash]

Lotta antichrists out there:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Divine_Comedy


I was always impressed Dante had so much time to write that while working at the Quickstop and playing roof hockey.

[Hotpapa666]

I'm not going to respond to every post in this thread, mostly because I can't, I'm typing on the other side of the world and I sleep/work while you are awake, also, I don't want this thread to degenerate into a battle of cutesy quips.

First, Kinja points out that atrocities have been commited by athiests, most notably, Hitler and Stalin. That is absolutely true, Athiests have done terrible things. But this raises a few interesting points.

1. Athiesm doesn't, as Christianity does, claim to make people better, more moral people. Athiesm doesn't say anything except that there is no God. Christianity is supposed to lift people up morally, Athiesm makes no such claims. To prevent the arguments from the shadows and the nil I'll also say that Atheism doesn't/hasn't promote immorallity by Christian or any other standard, Morality is a simple part of biology, just as every other social trait is.

2. Hitler and Stalin were atheists, they were not acting with the support of Atheism. The atrocieties that I have listed so far are done at least with tacit consent of the church and at worst perpatrated by the church itself. Remember, the church is supposed to be the organization that improves people morally. There is no such thing as organized Atheism in the same way that there is an Organized Catholic Church, nor will there ever be; people don't get together to celebrate shit that they don't believe in. Atheism isn't about people believing in something...

3. If the best thing that Christianity can say about their role in history is that it hasn't been as bad as Hitler and Stalin COMBINED, well, that ain't saying much. In the case of those two, humanity was bright enough to get rid of the systems that generated them comparatively quickly, Hitler under two decades, hardcore Stalinism, roughly 50 years. Christianity is commiting horrendous acts in the name of God for it's 21st century and people continue to make excuses for it.


To round out my ideas. The posting of scripture has always been a head scratcher for me. Don't get me wrong, I understand the power of poetry, and how easily one can become fired up by well written poetry, it has a mystical quality, it's definitions lie in shadows and require great thought to unravel and even then the words are mysterious. The Bible is really just a collection of poems and stories with meanings more maluable than sheets of lead; people bend the meanings of verses of scripture so much that they can take any meaning at all. Not the kind of book that it is easy to live ones life by; there is just too much left open to interpretation and too many contradictions.

[Ed Who?]

1. Athiesm doesn't, as Christianity does, claim to make people better, more moral people.

Communism claims to eliminate the poor as well.

2. Hitler and Stalin were atheists, they were not acting with the support of Atheism.

All atheists are awesome, except for the ones who commit atrocities, then they are simply madmen acting of their own will.

Let's change a couple of things:

All Christians are awesome, except for the ones who commit atrocities, then they are simply madmen acting of their own will.

Hmm, you would not allow me the luxury of making the second statement, even though that's the exact and proper answer. You just condemned Christians because of a few zealots. But yet you aren't willing to condemn people who despise Christianity because of a few zealots.

3. If the best thing that Christianity can say about their role in history is that it hasn't been as bad as Hitler and Stalin COMBINED, well, that ain't saying much. In the case of those two, humanity was bright enough to get rid of the systems that generated them comparatively quickly, Hitler under two decades, hardcore Stalinism, roughly 50 years. Christianity is commiting horrendous acts in the name of God for it's 21st century and people continue to make excuses for it.

You are so full of shit. Horrendous acts in the name of God? Name one right now. War on Terror? Let me check the evidence. Four airplanes, four buildings (if passenger mutiny hadn't prevailed).

If you want a dose of reality, take a bus over to Mecca. Try to proclaim there's no Allah. See how quickly your head rolls down the dirt path, buddy. You think Christians are intolerant, you haven't seen anything.

Your whole argument against Christianity is that the whole group is a bunch of aggressive zealots who will kill anyone who disagrees. I guess you must be fortunate, because if that were actually true, your head would be rolling right now. But no, we tolerate morons who get amusement from taunting, ridiculing, and pissing on the name of our God. According to your characterization, we probably should be taking bets on whether God will dip you head or feet first into the lake of fire, but no, I pretty much mourn the fact you will not listen. It breaks my heart actually.

[KinjaKahn]

If you want a dose of reality, take a bus over to Mecca. Try to proclaim there's no Allah. See how quickly your head rolls down the dirt path, buddy. You think Christians are intolerant, you haven't seen anything.

Non-Muslims ARE NOT ALLOWED in Mecca.

[Hotpapa666]

I have some time so I'll deal with your points as you made them. Sadly, If I respond to your post the quotes that you link will not show up, so I will deal with them as originally numbered, by me.

1: Communism and atheism are different things. Communism is a political system. Atheism is the evidence based acknowledgement that there is no god.

2. If that is the paradigm that you are willing to deal with than you will have to accept a few corallaries. First, is that Christians and Atheists act alone. Which means that there is nothing that ties the members of either group to the other members of the group. Which, for Christians, means that there is nothing to bind you together, meaning, since the thing that binds all Christians together is god, there is no god.

3. I'm not really sure where to start, so I guess I'll just go and see where it takes me. The fact that the Christian zealots of my home country no longer kill people who disagree with them I should be overjoyed. A brief 75 years ago protestants were hanging black men and black women in the name of god. How is that for a history? What does it say about the history of your church when you look at pictures of your church's members, torches in hand, crosses burning, cheering the death of a man hanged for the crime of being black? That is one reality of Christianity in America. So is mass rape, child molestation...

History has shown in shocking detail how the benevolent link between man and god desolves into hatred, slavery, murder and rape (even in the pages in the Christian Bible) at the first sign of distress.

Wanna know why?


Because the whole story is made up to fit with how people normally, socially react to problems and is set to poetry. Check it out, you can almost dance to it...

[KinjaKahn]

3. If the best thing that Christianity can say about their role in history is that it hasn't been as bad as Hitler and Stalin COMBINED, well, that ain't saying much.

Do you really believe this? Perhaps you could turn your eyes to some of the Good Christianity does for PEOPLE. Upon an honest look, If you still see no benefit in Christianity, then maybe you can come up with a Plan for Government to replace countless... Orphanages, Hospitals, Hospice centers, Schools, Univeristies, Drug rehab centers, Homeless shelters and soup kitchens... Then find some good people to run them, which will be alot tougher.

In the case of those two, humanity was bright enough to get rid of the systems that generated them comparatively quickly, Hitler under two decades, hardcore Stalinism, roughly 50 years. Christianity is commiting horrendous acts in the name of God for it's 21st century and people continue to make excuses for it.
Examples required of those Christians committing these acts in the 21st century in the name of God.

[Ed Who?]

History has shown in shocking detail how the benevolent link between man and god desolves into hatred, slavery, murder and rape (even in the pages in the Christian Bible) at the first sign of distress.

Honestly, I really truly feel sorry for you. I am not sure what Christians (or a Christian in particular) has done to you personally, but I pray that someday the brick wall you've erected around your heart crumbles for reasons unbeknownest to you.

[Hotpapa666]

Do you really believe this? Perhaps you could turn your eyes to some of the Good Christianity does for PEOPLE. Upon an honest look, If you still see no benefit in Christianity, then maybe you can come up with a Plan for Government to replace countless... Orphanages, Hospitals, Hospice centers, Schools, Univeristies, Drug rehab centers, Homeless shelters and soup kitchens... Then find some good people to run them, which will be alot tougher. .

I have never in my life said that Christianity has never done anything good for people. I will say that Christianity has never done anything for humanity that humanity could not have done for itself. For example, charity is not a christian invention. I live in a country that is Shinto/Buddist/atheist in beliefs and all of the same charities are provided for, Orphanages, Selters (I volunteer at one) schools, Unis, there aren't really drugs in Japan so no rahab, etc.. People here donate their time out of a sense of purpose, a sense of keeping the social order intact. No Christian god or sense of redmption needed.


Examples required of those Christians committing these acts in the 21st century in the name of God.

I don't have any particulars on Christians raping children in this century so I guess they are off the hook for the past years. But, the church has been actively covering it up...

[Hotpapa666]

Honestly, I really truly feel sorry for you. I am not sure what Christians (or a Christian in particular) has done to you personally, but I pray that someday the brick wall you've erected around your heart crumbles for reasons unbeknownest to you.


I'm not sure why you feel sorry for me. I live a beautiful life, in a beautiful country, I have a beautiful life and I enjoy the freedom to do whatever I want. I haven't erected a brick wall against anything but, let's make a deal, instead of praying for me, I propose a deal:

Let's work together to make the world a better place. I'll match you hour for hour in community service. We'll start another to catalog the things that we as able bodied citizens should be doing anyway, regardless of faith. We'll figure out how to keep each other honest later.

Deal?

[KinjaKahn]

1: Communism and atheism are different things. Communism is a political system. Atheism is the evidence based acknowledgement that there is no god.
Comical. Atheists cannot exist without God. Who would atheists not believe in to rebel against? Let me guess... ummmm Loch Ness Monster, unicorns, and Bigfoot?

3. I'm not really sure where to start, so I guess I'll just go and see where it takes me. The fact that the Christian zealots of my home country no longer kill people who disagree with them I should be overjoyed. A brief 75 years ago protestants were hanging black men and black women in the name of god. How is that for a history? What does it say about the history of your church when you look at pictures of your church's members, torches in hand, crosses burning, cheering the death of a man hanged for the crime of being black? That is one reality of Christianity in America. So is mass rape, child molestation...

History has shown in shocking detail how the benevolent link between man and god desolves into hatred, slavery, murder and rape (even in the pages in the Christian Bible) at the first sign of distress.

Prior to religion there was no morality to stop molestation, mass rape, and murder. Without religion I doubt man would have ever grown out of nomadic tribes.

[KinjaKahn]

I have never in my life said that Christianity has never done anything good for people. I will say that Christianity has never done anything for humanity that humanity could not have done for itself. For example, charity is not a christian invention. I live in a country that is Shinto/Buddist/atheist in beliefs and all of the same charities are provided for, Orphanages, Selters (I volunteer at one) schools, Unis, there aren't really drugs in Japan so no rahab, etc.. People here donate their time out of a sense of purpose, a sense of keeping the social order intact. No Christian god or sense of redmption needed.
Francis Xavier, a Jesuit missionary, went to Kagoshime in August 1549. The Jesuit missionary work was concentrated on Kyushu (the southernmost island of Japan) and by 1579 six regional military lords were converted to Christianity. There were about 100,000 Christians, but the efforts of the Jesuits were initially not taken seriously by the military leaders, Oda Nobunagaa and Toyotomi Hideyoshi. As the Christian influence began to spread in Kyushu, Hideyoshi attempted to put a stop to it by having 26 Christians crucified at Nagasaki in 1597. In 1600, Tokugasa Ieyasu became the de facto ruler of Japan and allowed the missionaries to remain, but 14 years later the government forbade Christianity and forced the missionaries out of the country. At this point in time, there were about 300,000 Japanese Christians and many of them renounced Christianity as a result of persecution. In addition, it is estimated that about 3,000 Christians were executed. In spite of the persecution, many Christians remained strong in their beliefs and worshipped in private.

Perhaps a more accurate look at Japan is required?




I don't have any particulars on Christians raping children in this century so I guess they are off the hook for the past years. But, the church has been actively covering it up...
So why Lie about it. Did you think nobody would notice?

[Hotpapa666]

Francis Xavier, a Jesuit missionary, went to Kagoshime in August 1549. The Jesuit missionary work was concentrated on Kyushu (the southernmost island of Japan) and by 1579 six regional military lords were converted to Christianity. There were about 100,000 Christians, but the efforts of the Jesuits were initially not taken seriously by the military leaders, Oda Nobunagaa and Toyotomi Hideyoshi. As the Christian influence began to spread in Kyushu, Hideyoshi attempted to put a stop to it by having 26 Christians crucified at Nagasaki in 1597. In 1600, Tokugasa Ieyasu became the de facto ruler of Japan and allowed the missionaries to remain, but 14 years later the government forbade Christianity and forced the missionaries out of the country. At this point in time, there were about 300,000 Japanese Christians and many of them renounced Christianity as a result of persecution. In addition, it is estimated that about 3,000 Christians were executed. In spite of the persecution, many Christians remained strong in their beliefs and worshipped in private.

Perhaps a more accurate look at Japan is required?





So why Lie about it. Did you think nobody would notice?


Care to give a source?

And, what did I lie about? You certainly aren't talking about the decades of boy raping that were pushed under the rug by your church are you? Hey, about the Bishop that was promoted to Cardinal during the mess? Wasn't he Bishop in one of the major boy raping diocese? Oh yeah, good things, very good things...

[Ed Who?]

Let's work together to make the world a better place. I'll match you hour for hour in community service. We'll start another to catalog the things that we as able bodied citizens should be doing anyway, regardless of faith. We'll figure out how to keep each other honest later.


I'll estimate 4 hours of service per week for me currently, and that isn't even counting my preparation time etc.

[KinjaKahn]

Care to give a source?Tell me i'm lying and prove me wrong.

And, what did I lie about?
Christianity is commiting horrendous acts in the name of God for it's 21st century and people continue to make excuses for it.


You certainly aren't talking about the decades of boy raping that were pushed under the rug by your church are you? Hey, about the Bishop that was promoted to Cardinal during the mess? Wasn't he Bishop in one of the major boy raping diocese? Oh yeah, good things, very good things...
How much Teacher molestation has been covered up? do you really think this is just a new phenomena? Molesters seek access to children. I don't have a defense for faggot priest pedophile fiends. Rest ASSURED, the Church is not promoting the molestation of children nor has it ever. The issues with any coverup is purely something that would have to have come from personal relationships between bishops and priests.

[IBC]

Tell me i'm lying and prove me wrong.






How much Teacher molestation has been covered up? do you really think this is just a new phenomena? Molesters seek access to children. I don't have a defense for faggot priest pedophile fiends. Rest ASSURED, the Church is not promoting the molestation of children nor has it ever. The issues with any coverup is purely something that would have to have come from personal relationships between bishops and priests.
Ahhh, "faggot priest pedophile fiends."

[KinjaKahn]

Ahhh, "faggot priest pedophile fiends."
Oh I forgot... lets not hurt their feelings. Is "unpopular priest" PC enough for you?

[IBC]

Oh I forgot... lets not hurt their feelings. Is "unpopular priest" PC enough for you?

No, what you said is fucking disgusting. PC? WTF is the matter with you?

[Hotpapa666]

Tell me i'm lying and prove me wrong. .

It is the role of the person who quotes information to varify that information.


How much Teacher molestation has been covered up? do you really think this is just a new phenomena? Molesters seek access to children. I don't have a defense for faggot priest pedophile fiends. Rest ASSURED, the Church is not promoting the molestation of children nor has it ever. The issues with any coverup is purely something that would have to have come from personal relationships between bishops and priests.

The answers to these questions have been well documented. The Catholic Church lost millions of members over the Priest raping scandels, a court case and lotsa dough. If you want to justify Priests raping children because teachers have criminally raped children, well, that's you're own brand of logic. You can justify child rape as long as you want to. I'll go on thinking that it is evil, the Catholic church will go on sweeping it under the rug.

[KinjaKahn]

No, what you said is fucking disgusting. PC? WTF is the matter with you?
Only disgusting to those who are, ignorant, intentionally or not, to what was going on. The VAST majority of pedophile priests were molesting boys. I backed, this assertion of fact, up with proof. Any questions about it? Hit the search button. You like fags, I don't. You want kids brought up to believe it's the equal opposite of heterosexual relations, I don't.

[KinjaKahn]

It is the role of the person who quotes information to varify that information.
Information provided by the Japanese Embassy.




The answers to these questions have been well documented. The Catholic Church lost millions of members over the Priest raping scandels, a court case and lotsa dough. If you want to justify Priests raping children because teachers have criminally raped children, well, that's you're own brand of logic. You can justify child rape as long as you want to. I'll go on thinking that it is evil, the Catholic church will go on sweeping it under the rug.
Child molestation is not part of Christianity. Allow me to make it simpler; the same argument you make about madmen who murdered MILLIONS while subscribing to the tenets atheism.

[IBC]

Only disgusting to those who are, ignorant, intentionally or not, to what was going on. The VAST majority of pedophile priests were molesting boys. I backed, this assertion of fact, up with proof. Any questions about it? Hit the search button. You like fags, I don't. You want kids brought up to believe it's the equal opposite of heterosexual relations, I don't.

This is a disgusting attitude. I am blown away that this level of ignorance exists from people that can spell. Fuckin' disgusting.

[IBC]

Child molestation is not part of Christianity. Allow me to make it simpler; the same argument you make about madmen who murdered MILLIONS while subscribing to the tenets atheism.
But it is apparently part of homosexuality? It is a jaded world you live in.

[IBC]

Only disgusting to those who are, ignorant, intentionally or not, to what was going on. The VAST majority of pedophile priests were molesting boys. I backed, this assertion of fact, up with proof. Any questions about it? Hit the search button. You like fags, I don't. You want kids brought up to believe it's the equal opposite of heterosexual relations, I don't.

Yes, you backed that up? You were blown out of the water by most people in that argument and made yourself look desperate and ignorant.

[Ed Who?]

But it is apparently part of homosexuality? It is a jaded world you live in.

Here is the point. .................................................. ...................... Here is where you are.

Broad swipes are bullshit, and so isn't KK's. BUUUUUUUT, Hotpapa has just smeared the entirety of Christianity because of a few bad apples.

Someone wanted to stir some shit, read the initial post. They're getting it, and I'm sure they will get it one day.

[KinjaKahn]

But it is apparently part of homosexuality? It is a jaded world you live in.
It's also a despicable part of heterosexuality. Rejection of homosexual behavior by the church combined with a policy that doesn't permit priests to marry, creates a hiding place for Catholic deviants, and subsequently fouls the priesthood with homosexuals.

[IBC]

It's also a despicable part of heterosexuality. Rejection of homosexual behavior by the church combined with a policy that doesn't permit priests to marry, creates a hiding place for Catholic deviants, and subsequently fouls the priesthood with homosexuals.

If it is part of heterosexuality and homosexuality it is part of the church too. WTF?

[IBC]

Here is the point. .................................................. ...................... Here is where you are.

Broad swipes are bullshit, and so isn't KK's. BUUUUUUUT, Hotpapa has just smeared the entirety of Christianity because of a few bad apples.

Someone wanted to stir some shit, read the initial post. They're getting it, and I'm sure they will get it one day.

I don't agree with the way HP is going about this.

[KinjaKahn]

If it is part of heterosexuality and homosexuality it is part of the church too. WTF?
You're clueless. Go to Church!

[IBC]

You're clueless. Go to Church!

Oh, because I can't follow your brilliant logic? Give me a break man, here is somebody who was taken to task on their bigoted and ignorant views, so he says "go to church". Nice man.

[KinjaKahn]

Oh, because I can't follow your brilliant logic? Give me a break man, here is somebody who was taken to task on their bigoted and ignorant views, so he says "go to church". Nice man.
I am not the Church thus I instruct you to seek answers there. Taken to task? By someone who's taking the side with the ideals of the wicked to prove that my faith is really the wicked ideal? Am I not to laugh at this?

[IBC]

I am not the Church thus I instruct you to seek answers there. Taken to task? By someone who's taking the side with the ideals of the wicked to prove that my faith is really the wicked ideal? Am I not to laugh at this?

Faith?
You like fags, I don't.
faggot priest pedophile fiends.


LOL!!!!!!!!

[KinjaKahn]

Faith?
Clue: Homosexuality, the acts, are forbidden by valid Christian faiths. Homosexuals need to give up the acts and renounce them, to be accepted.

LOL!!!!!!!!
You're hysteria is amusing.

[Ed Who?]

Clue: Homosexuality, the acts, are forbidden by valid Christian faiths. Homosexuals need to give up the acts and renounce them, to be accepted.


You're hysteria is amusing.

You're preaching to people who would rather not listen. Truth is constant. Whether one chooses to listen or not, the truth remains.

[IBC]

Clue: Homosexuality, the acts, are forbidden by valid Christian faiths. Homosexuals need to give up the acts and renounce them, to be accepted.


You're hysteria is amusing.

Seriously? Your church encourages you to hate homosexuals? Call them faggots? That is unlike most Christian churches, and against anything Jesus ever said.

[IBC]

You're preaching to people who would rather not listen. Truth is constant. Whether one chooses to listen or not, the truth remains.

Truth, Jesus wants you to call homosexuals faggots?

[KinjaKahn]

Truth, Jesus wants you to call homosexuals faggots?
Would he prefer, pole smoker, deviant freak, or semen burping slimeball? Whatever word you use that they don't like is the essentially the same; offensive.

[Jiddy78]

Clue: Homosexuality, the acts, are forbidden by valid Christian faiths. Homosexuals need to give up the acts and renounce them, to be accepted.


You're hysteria is amusing.
Acts of greed are forbidden by valid Christian faiths. Greedy f*cks who act upon their greed must give up the acts and renounce them, to be accepted.


Wonderful alliteration. Thank you.

[KinjaKahn]

Acts of greed are forbidden by valid Christian faiths. Greedy f*cks who act upon their greed must give up the acts and renounce them, to be accepted.


Wonderful alliteration. Thank you.
I missed the alliteration... help me.

[IBC]

Would he prefer, pole smoker, deviant freak, or semen burping slimeball? Whatever word you use that they don't like is the essentially the same; offensive.

No, i am quite sure He would prefer none of those. Was Jesus for hatred?

[KinjaKahn]

No, i am quite sure He would prefer none of those. Was Jesus for hatred?

Not sure... but he didn't like those "greedy f*cks" (Thanks Jiddy) called moneychangers in the Temple.

[Ed Who?]

Acts of greed are forbidden by valid Christian faiths. Greedy f*cks who act upon their greed must give up the acts and renounce them, to be accepted.


Leave the baptist "name-it-and-claim-it"'s out of it.

[Reagan Smash]

Acts of greed are forbidden by valid Christian faiths. Greedy f*cks who act upon their greed must give up the acts and renounce them, to be accepted.


Wonderful alliteration. Thank you.


Thank God for Protestant Values

[Jiddy78]

I missed the alliteration... help me.

Upon review...You suck. Ok...I suck...but really, you should suck too. Just because.

Signed,

Messenger Killer

[Hotpapa666]

Child molestation is not part of Christianity. Allow me to make it simpler; the same argument you make about madmen who murdered MILLIONS while subscribing to the tenets atheism.


First, there are no tenets of atheism. It isn't, as many religious leaders claim, an alternative faith to Christianity. It is the absence of faith. You might want to copy this somewhere because I am sure that you try and raise this argument again, it is one of the few arrows in the Christian quiver.

Second, the Catholic Church has long supported the rape of children. Monestaries and Convents throughout the middle ages until very recently were used as free whore houses by members of church (and others), this is very well documented through letters from the time and well ridiculed in such contemporary works as "The Canterbury Tale", "The Decameron", etc.. Remember, in those days, children were brought to the whore house, I mean convent, in their early teens. This was all done with every level of the church knowing about it. Certainly that counts as molestation being part of Christianity. The Catholic Church's support of the sexual abuse of children has continued to modern times. Rather than turn in Priests who serially raped children, they moved them around to protect them and allow them to rape again. This was done with the knowledge of high members of the church. Certainly this quilifies as Christianity supporting the rape of children. Etc.

You don't get to have it both ways. Christianity may have done some decent thing throughout it's history but it's done a hell of a lot of evil shit as well. I would think that an organization that is supposed to represent the word of god on Earth would not commit evil acts, would not be permited by god to commit those acts.

[MTVike]

Second, the Catholic Church has long supported the rape of children. Monestaries and Convents throughout the middle ages until very recently were used as free whore houses by members of church (and others), this is very well documented through letters from the time and well ridiculed in such contemporary works as "The Canterbury Tale", "The Decameron", etc.. Remember, in those days, children were brought to the whore house, I mean convent, in their early teens. This was all done with every level of the church knowing about it. Certainly that counts as molestation being part of Christianity. The Catholic Church's support of the sexual abuse of children has continued to modern times. Rather than turn in Priests who serially raped children, they moved them around to protect them and allow them to rape again. This was done with the knowledge of high members of the church. Certainly this quilifies as Christianity supporting the rape of children. Etc.



You're out of your tree if you think the Catholic church knowingly supported the abuse of children. You must separate the deeds of fallen men from the ideals of Christianity.

There are closeted homosexual priests and even pedophiles that are part of the Catholic church. There are these types in any institution that comes into contact with the public, including schools, hospitals, etc. I'm not aware the numbers of offending clergy in the church are that much higher than those in the general population per capita, but it sure makes for good headlines. The criminals disguised as clergy are a very small majority.

You need to separate the sins of men from the Christianity whose followers endeavor to live life in the way Christ showed us. Do any of us live up to this ideal? No. But his path is without error.

[Hotpapa666]

You're out of your tree if you think the Catholic church knowingly supported the abuse of children. You must separate the deeds of fallen men from the ideals of Christianity.

Except that it is very well documented that the Catholic Church knew of and often supported institutions that abused Children sexually, the cases I mention above are two prominent examples.

[KinjaKahn]

Except that it is very well documented that the Catholic Church knew of and often supported institutions that abused Children sexually, the cases I mention above are two prominent examples.
So how does this reflect negatively on the Amish, Jehovah Witness's, Baptists, etc... ? Is your problem really with the Catholic Church and you just don't know it?

[Ed Who?]

First, there are no tenets of atheism.

Fortunately for you, there really is a God that sorted out all the moral stuff at the beginning. Otherwise, you'd probably have a shiv stuck through your heart because some modern version of a Barbarian would have stabbed you for the fun of it. Seeing that there's really no basis for morality, right?

[Hotpapa666]

So how does this reflect negatively on the Amish, Jehovah Witness's, Baptists, etc... ? Is your problem really with the Catholic Church and you just don't know it?

Christians will, mostly, agree that they share the same god, heaven, hell and basic tenets. There are some ideas that vary but on the big issues listed above they all agree enough that they can be lumped together. And, for the first 3/4 of the history of Christianity in Western Europe (which is where these other religions either grew from, or were an inspiration to their creators) there was only a Catholic Church. So, it's a pretty good time frame to pick apart Christianity; there was only one church in the most successful area of the world, that had to be the right one, right? Well, God didn't run with a very moral horse. Also, if I don't get bored with this, which I will in time, I will probably get to just about any major sect of Christianity. Maybe tonight, if I don't get caught up in the spirit of the weekend, I'll post some evil commited by some Protestants, will that make you feel better?

My problem is with ALL religion, everywhere, Religion tricks people into believing in things aren't real, which in Children is fine, Santa is a wonderful illusion to have as a kid,but for adults, it is posion to the mind.

[Hotpapa666]

Fortunately for you, there really is a God that sorted out all the moral stuff at the beginning. Otherwise, you'd probably have a shiv stuck through your heart because some modern version of a Barbarian would have stabbed you for the fun of it. Seeing that there's really no basis for morality, right?

I have never said that there is no basis for morality, I just don't think that there is a Christian basis for it. I think it grows out of a combination of our biology, social and historical context. The moral question of murder is answered the same way in every culture throughout the world, for a reason, it is deemed wrong for Christians, Shinto, Hindus, tribesmen in Papau/ New Guinea, everywhere. It didn't take Moses carrying down some tablets to teach the Jews that Murder was wrong, they fucking knew that from the beginning, there was nothing profound on those tablets, it's a combination of common sense (biology) and cultural standards.

[Ed Who?]

My problem is with ALL religion, everywhere, Religion tricks people into believing in things aren't real, which in Children is fine, Santa is a wonderful illusion to have as a kid,but for adults, it is posion to the mind.

Atheism tricks people into believing that there is no higher power.

[Hotpapa666]

OK, here's an article about the Amish and their taste for incest.

Enjoy: http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/January-February-2005/feature_labi_janfeb05.msp

Such gentle people...

[Reagan Smash]

So because many of these vast religions have people that circumvent the beliefs of the religion, people should instead believe in nothing, because there is nothing to circumvent?

[Jiddy78]

Here's my Catholic history tidbit for the day:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury

St. Thomas Aquinas, the leading theologian of the Catholic Church, argued charging of interest is wrong because it amounts to "double charging", charging for both the thing and the use of the thing. Aquinas said this would be morally wrong in the same way as if one sold a bottle of wine, charged for the bottle of wine, and then charged for the person using the wine to actually drink it. Similarly, one cannot charge for a piece of cake and for the eating of the piece of cake. Yet this, said Aquinas, is what usury does. Money is exchange-medium. It is used up when it is spent. To charge for the money and for its use (by spending) is to charge for the money twice. It is also to sell time since the usurer charges, in effect, for the time that the money is in the hands of the borrower. Time, however, is not a commodity that anyone can sell. (For a detailed discussion of Aquinas and usury, go to Thought of Thomas Aquinas Part I).

This did not, as some think, prevent investment. What it stipulated was that in order for the investor to share in the profit he must share the risk. In short he must be a joint-venturer. Simply to invest the money and expect it to be returned regardless of the success of the venture was to make money simply by having money and not by taking any risk or by doing any work or by any effort or sacrifice at all. This is usury. St Thomas quotes Aristotle as saying that "to live by usury is exceedingly unnatural". Islam likewise condemns usury. Judaism condemns it save when practised against non-Jews. St Thomas allows, however, charges for actual services provided. Thus a banker or credit-lender could charge for such actual work or effort as he did carry out e.g. any fair administrative charges. The Catholic Church, in a decree of the 5th Lateran Council (Session 10, 4 May 1515) expressly allowed such charges in respect of credit-unions run for the benefit of the poor known as "montes pietatis".

In the 13th century Cardinal Hostiensis enumerated thirteen situations in which charging interest was not immoral.[8] The most important of these was lucrum cessans (profits given up) which allowed for the lender to charge interest "to compensate him for profit foregone in investing the money himself." (Rothbard 1995, p. 46) This idea is very similar to Opportunity Cost. Many scholastic thinkers who argued for a ban on interest charges also argued for the legitimacy of lucrum cessans profits (e.g. Pierre Jean Olivi and St. Bernardino of Siena).



And, for those that actually read some of the sh*t I've been typing over the past few years:

In The Divine Comedy Dante places the usurers in the inner ring of the seventh circle of hell, below even suicides. (Showing how cultural attitudes have changed since the 14th century, the usurers' ring was shared only by the blasphemers and sodomites.)


The whole history of usury is fantasizing to me. I think Cardinal Hostiensis f*cked up.

[KinjaKahn]

My problem is with ALL religion, everywhere, Religion tricks people into believing in things aren't real, which in Children is fine, Santa is a wonderful illusion to have as a kid,but for adults, it is posion to the mind.
Do you believe in Love?

[Hotpapa666]

So because many of these vast religions have people that circumvent the beliefs of the religion, people should instead believe in nothing, because there is nothing to circumvent?


That's not really the logic that I would use. For many years religious people have used the arguement that religion makes people better, more moral people. But, it doesn't work that way, there are as many scoundrel Christians, Jews, Shinto, etc.. as their are non-religious people. It's not really an argument FOR atheism as much as it is an argument debunking one of the arguements that religious people use to justify their religion.

Also, I think it is important to look at all of the things done by the religious and religious institutions. It makes me wonder where god is and what he's doing while his supposed representatives are spreading evil around the world.

[Hotpapa666]

Do you believe in Love?

Semetantics about the meaning of "believe" aside, yes, I believe in Love as I believe in all emotions. And, the existence of emotions does nothing to further an argument for a god, emotions are felt by many species, not just those "choosen by god".

[IBC]

Semetantics about the meaning of "believe" aside, yes, I believe in Love as I believe in all emotions. And, the existence of emotions does nothing to further an argument for a god, emotions are felt by many species, not just those "choosen by god".

Dog is love.

[swordfish]

OK to recap.

Calling child molesters homosexuals is bad.
Calling the whole of Christianity evil is good.

Any questions?

[IBC]

OK to recap.

Calling child molesters homosexuals is bad.
Calling the whole of Christianity evil is good.

Any questions?

No, both are bad and inaccurate.

[IBC]

OK to recap.

Calling child molesters homosexuals is bad.
Calling the whole of Christianity evil is good.

Any questions?
Oh, and I think this is a bit mischaracterized of what was said. Filthy fa**ots makes it a bit different for me.

[KinjaKahn]

Oh, and I think this is a bit mischaracterized of what was said. Filthy fa**ots makes it a bit different for me.

No it isn't... you're just too heart broken that I used a word you can't bring yourself to type.

[Hotpapa666]

Here's one that fell on my homepage like a gift from Zeus:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/11/18/church.abuse.alaska.ap/index.html

Another proud day in the Catholic Church.

[Reagan Smash]

Here's one that fell on my homepage like a gift from Zeus:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/11/18/church.abuse.alaska.ap/index.html

Another proud day in the Catholic Church.


Throwing out the baby with the bathwater

[swordfish]

http://httpwwwbabyboomeradvisorclubcom.wordpress.com/2007/09/09/the-atheist-and-the-killer-shark/

There is this atheist swimming in the ocean. All of the sudden he sees this shark in the water, so he starts swimming towards his boat.

As he looks back he sees the shark turn and head towards him. His boat is a ways off and he starts swimming like crazy. He’s scared to death, and as he turns to see the jaws of the great white beast open revealing its teeth in a horrific splendor, the atheist screams, “Oh God! Save me!”

In an instant time is frozen and a bright light shines down from above. The man is motionless in the water when he hears the voice of God say, “You are an atheist. Why do you call upon me when you do not believe in me?”

Aghast with confusion and knowing he can’t lie the man replies, “Well, that’s true I don’t believe in you, but how about the shark? Can you make the shark believe in you?”

The Lord replies, “As you wish,” and the light retracted back into the heavens and the man could feel the water begin to move once again.

As the atheist looks back he can see the jaws of the shark start to close down on him, when all of sudden the shark stops and pulls back.

Shocked, the man looks at the shark as the huge beast closes its eyes and bows its head and says, “Thank you Lord for this food for which I am about to receive…”

[Hotpapa666]

Throwing out the baby with the bathwater

Except that these are grown men. Grown men more interested in the Baby than the bath water it would seem...

[IBC]

No it isn't... you're just too heart broken that I used a word you can't bring yourself to type.

I was at home and I have to copy and paste "g" because I lost the "g" on my keyboard. Thought that worked as well as anything. By teh way, it doesn't take bravery or courage to type that word.

[Ed Who?]

I was at home and I have to copy and paste "g" because I lost the "g" on my keyboard. Thought that worked as well as anything. By teh way, it doesn't take bravery or courage to type that word.

No, just brains.

[IBC]

No, just brains.

Really smart people say faggot all the time? That is rich.

[IBC]

Harassing people because of what type of life they live is not protected speech. Hate is not a Christian value. Therapy is a good start for those who hate homosexuals so much that they resort to name-calling and ignorance. Unless a homosexual has done you wrong (and it is still idiocy to blame the whole group), think of what is the matter with you people that you believe in attacking a whole group of people for no reason. Stop twisting your religion.

[Ed Who?]

Except that these are grown men. Grown men more interested in the Baby than the bath water it would seem...

Humans cannot be perfect. You can hold clergy to higher standards, but undoubtedly they will fail. Just like leaders of atheism will fail. And unfortunately for them, they are too closedminded to understand that debt has been paid. One's own religion (or lack thereof) doesn't dictate the standard their lives will be held to in the end.

[Ed Who?]

Really smart people say faggot all the time? That is rich.

I thougth you meant "God."

[Ed Who?]

Harassing people because of what type of life they live is not protected speech. Hate is not a Christian value. Therapy is a good start for those who hate homosexuals so much that they resort to name-calling and ignorance. Unless a homosexual has done you wrong (and it is still idiocy to blame the whole group), think of what is the matter with you people that you believe in attacking a whole group of people for no reason. Stop twisting your religion.

Instead, a believer should keep his mouth shut and watch someone engrossed in a sinful life die because they were afraid of offending. To me, that sounds more hateful than to say something, allowing someone to die for the sins they've committed. Because we've all committed them.

[IBC]

Humans cannot be perfect. You can hold clergy to higher standards, but undoubtedly they will fail. Just like leaders of atheism will fail. And unfortunately for them, they are too closedminded to understand that debt has been paid. One's own religion (or lack thereof) doesn't dictate the standard their lives will be held to in the end.

I agree. I am glad you said lack thereof.

[IBC]

I thougth you meant "God."

No, I understand. :D

[IBC]

Instead, a believer should keep his mouth shut and watch someone engrossed in a sinful life die because they were afraid of offending. To me, that sounds more hateful than to say something, allowing someone to die for the sins they've committed. Because we've all committed them.

If you would like to try and "save" homosexuals, that is fine. If it has anything to do with gay-bashing, be it verbal, physical or any other way, than it is stupid. I am not saying you cannot be against homosexuality. I am saying that having hatred for them is ignorant, especially when followed with KK(K)'s spewing of said ignorance.

[ryr8828]

Harassing people because of what type of life they live is not protected speech. Hate is not a Christian value. Therapy is a good start for those who hate homosexuals so much that they resort to name-calling and ignorance. Unless a homosexual has done you wrong (and it is still idiocy to blame the whole group), think of what is the matter with you people that you believe in attacking a whole group of people for no reason. Stop twisting your religion.


Hate is not in the word. The hate is assigned to the word by those who find the word distasteful or not politically correct.

When I call one friend a tight Jew bastard or call another a coonass, there is no hate involved.

[IBC]

HP,
I love ya man, but I think you are lumping in all Christians together. I would say the number of Christians who are bad people is as low if not a bit lower than in society as a whole. More boring? Yes. More evil? No.
Also, go to the Illini Board at SB and take your lumps please. 2 and f'in 10? How about 9 and f'in 3!!!!!!!!!!

[IBC]

Hate is not in the word. The hate is assigned to the word by those who find the word distasteful or not politically correct.

When I call one friend a tight Jew bastard or call another a coonass, there is no hate involved.

No, that is just ignorant. Sorry man, but it is. If you cannot see how that is offensive and hateful there is no reason to talk about it any more. NOW GO WHITEY!

[ryr8828]

No, that is just ignorant. Sorry man, but it is. If you cannot see how that is offensive and hateful there is no reason to talk about it any more. NOW GO WHITEY!

You call it ignorant. The Jew and the Cajun call it friendly banter among men.

[ryr8828]

No, that is just ignorant. Sorry man, but it is. If you cannot see how that is offensive and hateful there is no reason to talk about it any more. NOW GO WHITEY!
I just have to ask this.

IBC, could your ass be any tighter?

Do you wonder around scared to death that you might offend some poor minority? Even when they're your friends?

[IBC]

You call it ignorant. The Jew and the Cajun call it friendly banter among men.

Friendly banter is not what was posted here. Filthy faggots ss not friendly banter, neither is the stuff you have posted in the past about homosexuals.

[IBC]

I just have to ask this.

IBC, could your ass be any tighter?

Do you wonder around scared to death that you might offend some poor minority? Even when they're your friends?

I actually enjoy a good joke, I enjoy most good ones. My idea of one is not filthy faggot or any derivatives of that. I also think tight-fisted jew is in the same boat.

[pnkpanther]

Instead, a believer should keep his mouth shut and watch someone engrossed in a sinful life die because they were afraid of offending. To me, that sounds more hateful than to say something, allowing someone to die for the sins they've committed. Because we've all committed them.

but you're taking it upon yourself to judge others?

[IBC]

but you're taking it upon yourself to judge others?

Yes.

Ed 7:19

And it shall be Ed who holds teh homosexuals to account for their abomination before God and Je-Hee-Sus.

[KinjaKahn]

And it shall be Ed who holds teh homosexuals to account for their abomination before God and Je-Hee-Sus.
Hypocrite.

[IBC]

Hypocrite.

WTF?

[KinjaKahn]

This is a disgusting attitude. I am blown away that this level of ignorance exists from people that can spell. Fuckin' disgusting.

ignorant

Main Entry:
ig·no·rant Listen to the pronunciation of ignorant

Pronunciation:
\ˈig-n(ə-)rənt\
Function:
adjective
Date:
14th century

1 a: destitute of knowledge or education <an ignorant society>; also : lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified <parents ignorant of modern mathematics> b: resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence <ignorant errors>

2: unaware, uninformed

— ig·no·rant·ly adverb
— ig·no·rant·ness noun
synonyms ignorant, illiterate, unlettered, untutored, unlearned mean not having knowledge. ignorant may imply a general condition or it may apply to lack of knowledge or awareness of a particular thing <an ignorant fool> <ignorant of nuclear physics>. illiterate applies to either an absolute or a relative inability to read and write <much of the population is still illiterate>. unlettered implies ignorance of the knowledge gained by reading <an allusion meaningless to the unlettered>. untutored may imply lack of schooling in the arts and ways of civilization <strange monuments built by an untutored people>. unlearned suggests ignorance of advanced subjects <poetry not for academics but for the unlearned masses>.



Under synonyms I couldn't find disrespectful. Perhaps you should watch a little less of the whining flamers on TV who are ignorant to the existance of a dictionary; too much TV has left you sounding like a parrot. I am not ignorant to the plight of the queer. I am in fact intentionally disrespectful to them, and among these sexual deviants, I don't discriminate between male and female, they are equally repulsive.

[IBC]

Under synonyms I couldn't find disrespectful. Perhaps you should watch a little less of the whining flamers on TV who are ignorant to the existance of a dictionary; too much TV has left you sounding like a parrot. I am not ignorant to the plight of the queer. I am in fact intentionally disrespectful to them, and among these sexual deviants, I don't discriminate between male and female, they are equally repulsive.

And you are a sad excuse for a human.

[IBC]

Under synonyms I couldn't find disrespectful. Perhaps you should watch a little less of the whining flamers on TV who are ignorant to the existance of a dictionary; too much TV has left you sounding like a parrot. I am not ignorant to the plight of the queer. I am in fact intentionally disrespectful to them, and among these sexual deviants, I don't discriminate between male and female, they are equally repulsive.

Seek therapy. Get help. Do something. What that is called is a personality disorder. That is a professional opinion.

[KinjaKahn]

Seek therapy. Get help. Do something. What that is called is a personality disorder. That is a professional opinion.
ROFL. Professional what?

[IBC]

ROFL. Professional what?

Opinion of someone that goes out of his way to disrespect others. That is really sick man.

[IBC]

I am not joking bro, get it together. That is anti-social behavior. Maybe it is all the gangsta rap you listen to. You are not Eminem.

[Vegas]

I am not joking bro, get it together. That is anti-social behavior. Maybe it is all the gangsta rap you listen to. You are not Eminem.

So if one is repulsed by heterosexuals who cheat on their spouse, is that anti-social behavior?

[KinjaKahn]

Opinion of someone that goes out of his way to disrespect others. That is really sick man.
ROFL... I am not going out of my way... This thread is not about queers. I said something that stuck you like a knife and I have been needled by you since. I didn't start a thread about the nefarious deeds homosexuality or the acceptance of, and despicable affect it has had in and on society.

[KinjaKahn]

So if one is repulsed by heterosexuals who cheat on their spouse, is that anti-social behavior?
One subscribing to progressive nature psychology could argue that it is a hindrance to the current social climate.

[KinjaKahn]

I am not joking bro, get it together. That is anti-social behavior. Maybe it is all the gangsta rap you listen to. You are not Eminem.
Stick to comic books.

[IBC]

So if one is repulsed by heterosexuals who cheat on their spouse, is that anti-social behavior?

No, repulsion is not antisocial. Going out of your way to be disrespectful to people when they have done nothing to you is. Also, apples and oranges my friend.

[IBC]

ROFL... I am not going out of my way... This thread is not about queers. I said something that stuck you like a knife and I have been needled by you since. I didn't start a thread about the nefarious deeds homosexuality or the acceptance of, and despicable affect it has had in and on society.

You said you were intentionally disrespectful to homosexuals. That is not normal behavior man.

[KinjaKahn]

You said you were intentionally disrespectful to homosexuals. That is not normal behavior man.
ROFL. Homosexualiy is not NORMAL.

[IBC]

ROFL. Homosexualiy is not NORMAL.

Then judge them Kinja, judge them. Treat them like subhumans. I will tell you though, it is far from normal to behave like this. I am really not joking with you. That behavior is really out there man.

[KinjaKahn]

Then judge them Kinja, judge them. Treat them like subhumans. I will tell you though, it is far from normal to behave like this. I am really not joking with you. That behavior is really out there man.
Homosexuals judges themselves to be homosexual. I dont treat anybody like a subhuman. It used to be normal to lock homosexuals up in Jail. So your whining about what's "normal" is totally stupid. Normal changes with the wind.

[ryr8828]

Seek therapy. Get help. Do something. What that is called is a personality disorder. That is a professional opinion.

I sometimes think the same thing when you go on a rant unrelated to the point at hand. Actually I think it when I read 90% of your posts.
I'm talking about kidding a jew and a cajun who are friends of mine, you go off on a rant about calling queers queers.

My point still stands about people assigning hate speech because of political correctness. Your only answer to that was that I'm ignorant.

Homosexual, queer, faggot, I think they all mean the same thing. Now they prefer to be called gay, thus completely queering the meaning of that word. When did deviants get to take control of the English language?

When I was a kid black people were called negroes. I get a spell check error on both negros and negroes so I guess this word has been drummed out of existence. Then apparently the most vocal of the black leaders decided they should be called black people. Maybe after that it went to african american or visa versa. I can't keep up with it. Naturally then and now, nigger was a slur, but only a slur if used by anyone besides a black. More than once I've had a black man proclaim to me about another black man "that nigger" ain't no good, or "that nigger" this or that.

Then we now have the illegal immigration problem. Mostly from Mexico. Illegal immigrant, illegal alien, those terms are already offending people. Tough shit. Wetback, referring to people who swam across the
Rio Grande is now a big time slur on par with the n word. Wetback. You swam across a river to get into this country illegally. When you sat foot on US soil, your back was wet. Wet Back.

Everybody's always offended. You know what offends me? The constant changing of the English language for political agenda purposes or because someone got their little feelings hurt.


I'll be honest, I'm tired of liberals tying up minorities in order to further their agenda while they edge this country towards socialism. They jump on every refugee boat to try and get more voters on their side in order to promote their agenda. They crucify Trent Lott and glorify Robert Byrd. When I look at, talk to, or converse with a liberal on a message board I always see one thing. Total hypocrisy.

[IBC]

Homosexuals judges themselves to be homosexual. I dont treat anybody like a subhuman. It used to be normal to lock homosexuals up in Jail. So your whining about what's "normal" is totally stupid. Normal changes with the wind.

I think you are intelligent enough to know how I am using the word.

[ryr8828]

Then judge them Kinja, judge them. Treat them like subhumans. I will tell you though, it is far from normal to behave like this. I am really not joking with you. That behavior is really out there man.

I don't know where it's normal or regular for one man to put his penis in another man's ass either.

Since we're talking about someone being far from normal.

Analyze that.

[IBC]

I sometimes think the same thing when you go on a rant unrelated to the point at hand. Actually I think it when I read 90% of your posts.
I'm talking about kidding a jew and a cajun who are friends of mine, you go off on a rant about calling queers queers.

My point still stands about people assigning hate speech because of political correctness. Your only answer to that was that I'm ignorant.

Homosexual, queer, faggot, I think they all mean the same thing. Now they prefer to be called gay, thus completely queering the meaning of that word. When did deviants get to take control of the English language?

When I was a kid black people were called negroes. I get a spell check error on both negros and negroes so I guess this word has been drummed out of existence. Then apparently the most vocal of the black leaders decided they should be called black people. Maybe after that it went to african american or visa versa. I can't keep up with it. Naturally then and now, nigger was a slur, but only a slur if used by anyone besides a black. More than once I've had a black man proclaim to me about another black man "that nigger" ain't no good, or "that nigger" this or that.

Then we now have the illegal immigration problem. Mostly from Mexico. Illegal immigrant, illegal alien, those terms are already offending people. Tough shit. Wetback, referring to people who swam across the
Rio Grande is now a big time slur on par with the n word. Wetback. You swam across a river to get into this country illegally. When you sat foot on US soil, your back was wet. Wet Back.

Everybody's always offended. You know what offends me? The constant changing of the English language for political agenda purposes or because someone got their little feelings hurt.


I'll be honest, I'm tired of liberals tying up minorities in order to further their agenda while they edge this country towards socialism. They jump on every refugee boat to try and get more voters on their side in order to promote their agenda. They crucify Trent Lott and glorify Robert Byrd. When I look at, talk to, or converse with a liberal on a message board I always see one thing. Total hypocrisy.

Ok, use all the slurs you want bro. Its up to you after all. I don't glorify Robert Byrd at all.

You also didn't specify you were talking to friends. Don't know if you were intentionally setting a trap for me or not.

[IBC]

I don't know where it's normal or regular for one man to put his penis in another man's ass either.

Since we're talking about someone being far from normal.

Analyze that.

Treating people with intentional disrespect when they have done nothing to you isn't decent behavior. That is all.

[IBC]

I don't know where it's normal or regular for one man to put his penis in another man's ass either.

Since we're talking about someone being far from normal.

Analyze that.

It is to a large percentage of our country. Last time I checked I didn't have to have anal sex either. Still true I assume, and I hope true for you. Not sure how they are doin' it these days back in my home state, but i think you are safe.

[ryr8828]

It is to a large percentage of our country. Last time I checked I didn't have to have anal sex either. Still true I assume, and I hope true for you. Not sure how they are doin' it these days back in my home state, but i think you are safe.

A large percentage of our country's men put their penises in other men's asses?

I seriously doubt that.

[IBC]

A large percentage of our country's men put their penises in other men's asses?

I seriously doubt that.

Yes. 1% to 10% of the population is a large percentage. That doesn't even count Larry Craig and his closeted buds (ie Republican homosexuals).

[ryr8828]

Yes. 1% to 10% of the population is a large percentage. That doesn't even count Larry Craig and his closeted buds (ie Republican homosexuals).

I see that as a small percentage.

You have no proof on Larry Craig, but good try at a shot.

Of course since it's ok in your eyes, why denigrate him or other queer Republicans? Isn't that hypocritical?

That's exactly what I'm talking about.

[IBC]

I see that as a small percentage.

You have no proof on Larry Craig, but good try at a shot.

Of course since it's ok in your eyes, why denigrate him or other queer Republicans? Isn't that hypocritical?

That's exactly what I'm talking about.

No, it isn't hypocritical to pint out that those that demonize gays are sometimes gay.

[IBC]

I see that as a small percentage.

You have no proof on Larry Craig, but good try at a shot.

Of course since it's ok in your eyes, why denigrate him or other queer Republicans? Isn't that hypocritical?

That's exactly what I'm talking about.

No proof on Larry Craig? Did you watch the interview? The fact that these people have to live their lives in the closet is terribly sad to me.

To say I am denigrating gays with that comment up there is ridiculous.

[KinjaKahn]

No, it isn't hypocritical to pint out that those that demonize gays are sometimes gay.
If you truly believed homosexuality to be positive, you couldn't use it as a descriptive for Larry Craig, as his orientation would have no bearing on his occupation or philosophy. It is evident that there are delusions in the ego of the man in your mirror.

[IBC]

If you truly believed homosexuality to be positive, you couldn't use it as a descriptive for Larry Craig, as his orientation would have no bearing on his occupation or philosophy. It is evident that there are delusions in the ego of the man in your mirror.

Jeebus man, I don't view it as positive or negative. I am not running a campaign for homosexuality. WTF? Delusions? LOL.

[KinjaKahn]

Jeebus man, I don't view it as positive or negative. I am not running a campaign for homosexuality. WTF? Delusions? LOL.

If you were truly indifferent to homosexuality, you couldn't use it as a descriptive for Larry Craig, as his orientation would have no bearing on his occupation or philosophy. It is evident that there are delusions in the ego of the man in your mirror.

[IBC]

If you were truly indifferent to homosexuality, you couldn't use it as a descriptive for Larry Craig, as his orientation would have no bearing on his occupation or philosophy. It is evident that there are delusions in the ego of the man in your mirror.

I am pointing out the sad state that we put men like him into. You are grasping at straws to try and justify irrational hatred all the while trying to turn the finger on me. Good day man. I hope you get your shit worked out.

[ryr8828]

I am pointing out the sad state that we put men like him into. You are grasping at straws to try and justify irrational hatred all the while trying to turn the finger on me. Good day man. I hope you get your shit worked out.

Why does language that you disapprove of, and refusal to accept a deviant unhealthy lifestyle,

equal hatred in your eyes?

Because it's your buzz word. If we don't accept it as normal then it makes you feel better to accuse us of hatred.

[ryr8828]

I am pointing out the sad state that we put men like him into. You are grasping at straws to try and justify irrational hatred all the while trying to turn the finger on me. Good day man. I hope you get your shit worked out.

Also, I think you're right on the edge of a meltdown and I'm not even a psychologist.

[IBC]

Why does language that you disapprove of, and refusal to accept a deviant unhealthy lifestyle,

equal hatred in your eyes?

Because it's your buzz word. If we don't accept it as normal then it makes you feel better to accuse us of hatred.

Don't accept it as normal? read my posts, it should be easy to define what I have a problem with.

[IBC]

Also, I think you're right on the edge of a meltdown and I'm not even a psychologist.

Sweet, tell me how. Use my words please, not ones you are putting in my mouth.

[Hotpapa666]

Now that the squabbling seems to be over. Let's get back to the real purpose of this thread: the demonstrate the evils done by Christians.

Here's a great one that noone can contest had the full approval of the Church and was vicously brutal:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition

I'll probably post later on the Inquisition in other countries, like the one in Italy that landed that heathen Galileo under house arrest for the perposterous notion that the Earth revolves around the sun.

[Reagan Smash]

When I die and they lay me to rest
Gonna go to the place that's the best
When I lay me down to die
Goin' up to the spirit in the sky
Goin' up to the spirit in the sky
That's where I'm gonna go when I die
When I die and they lay me to rest
Gonna go to the place that's the best

Prepare yourself you know it's a must
Gotta have a friend in Jesus
So you know that when you die
He's gonna recommend you
To the spirit in the sky
Gonna recommend you
To the spirit in the sky
That's where you're gonna go when you die
When you die and they lay you to rest
You're gonna go to the place that's the best

Never been a sinner I never sinned
I got a friend in Jesus
So you know that when I die
He's gonna set me up with
The spirit in the sky
Oh set me up with the spirit in the sky
That's where I'm gonna go when I die
When I die and they lay me to rest
I'm gonna go to the place that's the best
Go to the place that's the best

[Hotpapa666]

When I die and they lay me to rest
Gonna go to the place that's the best
When I lay me down to die
Goin' up to the spirit in the sky
Goin' up to the spirit in the sky
That's where I'm gonna go when I die
When I die and they lay me to rest
Gonna go to the place that's the best

Prepare yourself you know it's a must
Gotta have a friend in Jesus
So you know that when you die
He's gonna recommend you
To the spirit in the sky
Gonna recommend you
To the spirit in the sky
That's where you're gonna go when you die
When you die and they lay you to rest
You're gonna go to the place that's the best

Never been a sinner I never sinned
I got a friend in Jesus
So you know that when I die
He's gonna set me up with
The spirit in the sky
Oh set me up with the spirit in the sky
That's where I'm gonna go when I die
When I die and they lay me to rest
I'm gonna go to the place that's the best
Go to the place that's the best


Ah yes, a top 40 hit about Jesus by a Jewish guy. That proves everything.

[Reagan Smash]

Ah yes, a top 40 hit about Jesus by a Jewish guy. That proves everything.


It's simple when you think about it, isn't it.

[KinjaKahn]

Now that the squabbling seems to be over. Let's get back to the real purpose of this thread: the demonstrate the evils done by Christians.

Here's a great one that noone can contest had the full approval of the Church and was vicously brutal:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition

I'll probably post later on the Inquisition in other countries, like the one in Italy that landed that heathen Galileo under house arrest for the perposterous notion that the Earth revolves around the sun.

ROFL. Don't you have something better to offer? Without Spanish Inquisition, it is very possible that Muslim expansion would have spread a lot further into Europe. Either way death toll estimates are between 800 and 5000 dead heretics and Spain was saved from Muslims. Meanwhile, Another of your godless heroes Pol Pot had a death toll of between 800,000 and 2.3 million.

Atheist Heroes Lenin Trotsky Stalin = 100,000,000
Atheist Hero Adolph Hitler = 12,000,000 - 25,000,000
Atheist Hero Chairman Mao = 20,000,000(Official Chinese Toll) - 72,000,000
Atheist Hero Pol Pot = 2,300,000 million

[IBC]

ROFL. Don't you have something better to offer? Without Spanish Inquisition, it is very possible that Muslim expansion would have spread a lot further into Europe. Either way death toll estimates are between 800 and 5000 dead heretics and Spain was saved from Muslims. Meanwhile, Another of your godless heroes Pol Pot had a death toll of between 800,000 and 2.3 million.

Atheist Heroes Lenin Trotsky Stalin = 100,000,000
Atheist Hero Adolph Hitler = 12,000,000 - 25,000,000
Atheist Hero Chairman Mao = 20,000,000(Official Chinese Toll) - 72,000,000
Atheist Hero Pol Pot = 2,300,000 million

LOL. Strawman. HP is a big Pol Pot supporter huh? Man do i love Stalin. What a joke of an argument. You throw in Hitler for good measure?

[KinjaKahn]

LOL. Strawman. HP is a big Pol Pot supporter huh? Man do i love Stalin. What a joke of an argument. You throw in Hitler for good measure?
Can you provide more powerful atheist leaders? Seems like atheist leaders assume the role of God over their domain and their actions back that up.

[IBC]

Can you provide more powerful atheist leaders? Seems like atheist leaders assume the role of God over their domain and their actions back that up.

Hitler was a Christian?

Hitler's religious beliefs and fanaticism

(Selected quotes from Mein Kampf)

compiled by Jim Walker

Originated: 28 Nov. 1996
Additions made: 07 July 2001

People often make the claim that Adolph Hitler adhered to Atheism, Humanism or some ancient Nordic pagan mythology. None of these fanciful and wrong ideas hold. Although one of Hitler's henchmen, Alfred Rosenberg, did undertake a campaign of Nordic mythological propaganda, Hitler and most of his henchmen did not believe in it .

Many American books, television documentaries, and Sunday sermons that preach of Hitler's "evil" have eliminated Hitler's god for their Christian audiences, but one only has to read from his own writings to appreciate that Hitler's God equals the same God of the Christian Bible. Hitler held many hysterical beliefs which not only include, God and Providence but also Fate, Social Darwinism, and ideological politics. He spoke, unashamedly, about God, fanaticism, idealism, dogma, and the power of propaganda. Hitler held strong faith in all his convictions. He justified his fight for the German people and against Jews by using Godly and Biblical reasoning. Indeed, one of his most revealing statements makes this quite clear:

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

Although Hitler did not practice religion in a churchly sense, he certainly believed in the Bible's God. Raised as Catholic he went to a monastery school and, interestingly, walked everyday past a stone arch which was carved the monastery's coat of arms which included a swastika. As a young boy, Hitler's most ardent goal was to become a priest. Much of his philosophy came from the Bible, and more influentially, from the Christian Social movement. (The German Christian Social movement, remarkably, resembles the Christian Right movement in America today.) Many have questioned Hitler's stand on Christianity. Although he fought against certain Catholic priests who opposed him for political reasons, his belief in God and country never left him. Many Christians throughout history have opposed Christian priests for various reasons; this does not necessarily make one against one's own Christian beliefs. Nor did the Vatican's Pope & bishops ever disown him; in fact they blessed him! As evidence to his claimed Christianity, he said:

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

Hitler's anti-Semitism grew out of his Christian education. Christian Austria and Germany in his time took for granted the belief that Jews held an inferior status to Aryan Christians. Jewish hatred did not spring from Hitler, it came from the preaching of Catholic priests and Protestant ministers throughout Germany for hundreds of years. The Protestant leader, Martin Luther, himself, held a livid hatred for Jews and their Jewish religion. In his book, "On the Jews and their Lies," Luther set the standard for Jewish hatred in Protestant Germany up until World War II. Hitler expressed a great admiration for Martin Luther.

Hitler did not have to parade his belief in God, as so many American Christians do now. Nor did he have to justify his Godly belief against an Atheist movement. He took his beliefs for granted just as most Germans did at that time. His thrust aimed at politics, not religion. But through his political and religious reasoning he established in 1933, a German Reich Christian Church, uniting the Protestant churches to instill faith in a national German Christianity.

Future generations should remember that Adolph Hitler could not have come into power without the support of the Protestant and Catholic churches and the German Christian populace.

The following quotes provides some of Hitler's expressions of his belief in religion, faith, fanaticism, Providence, and even a few of his paraphrasing of the Bible. It by no means represents the totality of Hitler's concerns. To realize the full context of these quotes, I implore the reader to study Mein Kampf.

The purpose of this text intends to dispute the claims made by Christians that Hitler "was an atheist," or "anti-religious," and to reveal the dangers of belief-systems. This text in no way attempts to give endorsement to anti-Semitism.

[IBC]

Can you provide more powerful atheist leaders? Seems like atheist leaders assume the role of God over their domain and their actions back that up.

By teh way, that logic really stands up for scrutiny, even moreso than Hp's that Christianity is bad because of bad Christians.

[KinjaKahn]

You can cite 20,000 nobody writers who demand Hitlers stated faith be taken as fact... 2 very distinct ideals Hitler espoused, belittle his proclaimed Faith in God. Those being Eugenics and Social Darwinism.

[IBC]

You can cite 20,000 nobody writers who demand Hitlers stated faith be taken as fact... 2 very distinct ideals Hitler espoused, belittle his proclaimed Faith in God. Those being Eugenics and Social Darwinism.
Your god is everyones? He is an atheist? Atheists proclaim their belief in god? You are an atheist if you don't believe in KK's god?

Wow man.

[KinjaKahn]

Your god is everyones? He is an atheist? Atheists proclaim their belief in god? You are an atheist if you don't believe in KK's god?

Wow man.
Do you support Eugenics and Social Darwinism? There is only 1 God and he has yet to promote Social Darwinism and Eugenics.

Social Darwinism and Eugenics are tenets of the Religion of Math and Matter.

[IBC]

Do you support Eugenics and Social Darwinism? There is only 1 God and he has yet to promote Social Darwinism and Eugenics.

Social Darwinism and Eugenics are tenets of the Religion of Math and Matter.
What else hasn't god weighed in on?

[KinjaKahn]

What else hasn't god weighed in on?
One issue at a time please.

[IBC]

One issue at a time please.

Just sayin', we haven't heard from him in a while. What is he up to? Probably busy bashin' homos huh? He hates homos, just like Jesus. Loves war though. I love it when he wrote "Onward Christian Soldiers." I usually like his earlier stuff better, but that one rocks! I heard he is a huge free market fan too, right? He loves corporations too.

[KinjaKahn]

Just sayin', we haven't heard from him in a while. What is he up to? Probably busy bashin' homos huh? He hates homos, just like Jesus. Loves war though. I love it when he wrote "Onward Christian Soldiers." I usually like his earlier stuff better, but that one rocks! I heard he is a huge free market fan too, right? He loves corporations too.
Railing?

[IBC]

Railing?

Not against Christianity.

[KinjaKahn]

Not against Christianity.
Against me? I didn't make the rules, I just try to follow them.

[IBC]

Against me? I didn't make the rules, I just try to follow them.

Very selectively from what I see.

[IBC]

Peacemaking, not War Making: Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. [Matthew 5:9] Resist
not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. [Matthew 5:39] I say unto you, Love your
enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despite-fully use you, and persecute
you; [Matthew 5:44]

The Death Penalty: Thou shalt not kill [Matthew 5:21]

Crime and Punishment: If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to cast a stone at her. [John 8:7] Do not judge, lest
you too be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged and with the measure you use, it will be measured to
you. [Matthew 7:1 & 2.]

Justice: Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. [Matthew 5:6] Blessed are the
merciful: for they shall obtain mercy [Matthew 5:7] But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your
trespasses. [Matthew 6:15]

Corporate Greed and the Religion of Wealth: In the temple courts [Jesus] found men selling cattle, sheep and doves and other
sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle;
he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. [John 2:14 & 15.] Watch out! Be on your guard against
all kinds of greed; a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions. [Luke 12.15.] Truly, I say unto you, it will
be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. [Matthew 19:23] You cannot serve both God and Money. [Matthew 6:24.]

Paying Taxes & Separation of Church & State: Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the
things that are God's. [Matthew 22:21]

Community: Love your neighbor as yourself. .[Matthew 22:39] So in everything, do to others as you would have them do to you.
[Matthew 7:12.] If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven.
[Matthew 19:21]

Equality & Social Programs: But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed,
because they cannot repay you. You will be repaid at the resurrection of the just. [Luke 14:13 &14.]

Public Prayer & Displays of Faith: And when thou pray, thou shall not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in
the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But thou, when thou pray, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret…
[Matthew 6:6 & 7]

Strict Enforcement of Religious Laws: If any of you has a son or a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take
hold of it and lift it out? [Matthew 12:11] The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. [Mark 2:27.]

Individuality & Personal Spiritual Experience: Ye are the light of the world. [Matthew 5:14]

[IBC]

Mark 10:25

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.

[KinjaKahn]

So why in one thread do you bash the Jewish vision in Christianity and in this thread promote Christ's vision?

[IBC]

So why in one thread do you bash the Jewish vision in Christianity and in this thread promote Christ's vision?

I am not bashing. All I did was post it. Whats wrong with it?

[KinjaKahn]

I am not bashing. All I did was post it. Whats wrong with it?
Nothings wrong with it, Are you to pretend that posting that was not meant to be a weapon against the ban on homosexuality?

[IBC]

Nothings wrong with it, Are you to pretend that posting that was not meant to be a weapon against the ban on homosexuality?

That posting was meant to show what Leviticus says. Where is teh ban on homosexuality? Link please.

[KinjaKahn]

That posting was meant to show what Leviticus says. Where is teh ban on homosexuality? Link please.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a
woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall
surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Killing them is pretty much a ban.

[IBC]

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a
woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall
surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Killing them is pretty much a ban.

Uh-huh. Your logic is pretty twisted man. What else are you put to death for in Leviticus? Should we put homosexuals to death? Adulterers? Rappers?

[Tom Joad]

Uh-huh. Your logic is pretty twisted man. What else are you put to death for in Leviticus? Should we put homosexuals to death? Adulterers? Rappers?

Don't they shoot each other? ;)

[IBC]

Don't they shoot each other? ;)

Yes they do. Kinja loves rappers but hates homosexuals. He is pretty confused. He still hasn't told me what Jesus said about homosexulaity.

[KinjaKahn]

Uh-huh. Your logic is pretty twisted man. What else are you put to death for in Leviticus? Should we put homosexuals to death? Adulterers? Rappers?
I don't make the rules I just try to follow them. Should homosexuals die for the sin? I would imagine they should be afforded every opportunity to repent and give up their lust for the forbidden. Once a queer refuses to repent and starts teaching his behavior to others and children, he has become a danger to society.

[KinjaKahn]

Don't they shoot each other? ;)
IBC hates rappers. He brings them up to me constantly as if I am supposed to be bothered by his opinion of them.

[IBC]

IBC hates rappers. He brings them up to me constantly as if I am supposed to be bothered by his opinion of them.

Uh-huh. Care to answer any more questins I posed?

[IBC]

I don't make the rules I just try to follow them. Should homosexuals die for the sin? I would imagine they should be afforded every opportunity to repent and give up their lust for the forbidden. Once a queer refuses to repent and starts teaching his behavior to others and children, he has become a danger to society.

Oh, teaching his behavior to others? What should we do with homosexuals?

[KinjaKahn]

Oh, teaching his behavior to others? What should we do with homosexuals?
Institutionalize them.

[IBC]

Institutionalize them.

Exactly. Have a nice day. I am done with this bullshit.

[KinjaKahn]

Exactly. Have a nice day. I am done with this bullshit.
ROFL. You're funny man.

[Hotpapa666]

ROFL. Don't you have something better to offer? Without Spanish Inquisition, it is very possible that Muslim expansion would have spread a lot further into Europe. Either way death toll estimates are between 800 and 5000 dead heretics and Spain was saved from Muslims. Meanwhile, Another of your godless heroes Pol Pot had a death toll of between 800,000 and 2.3 million.

Atheist Heroes Lenin Trotsky Stalin = 100,000,000
Atheist Hero Adolph Hitler = 12,000,000 - 25,000,000
Atheist Hero Chairman Mao = 20,000,000(Official Chinese Toll) - 72,000,000
Atheist Hero Pol Pot = 2,300,000 million


Wow, you are actually defending the Spanish Inquisition. I have to wonder, what did the cool-aid taste like?

Again, none of these people are Atheist leaders or heros. I've covered that very well in at least one post in this thread. A post you conveniently ignored. I'll not waste my time responding to your unfounded nonsense about Hitler et al. being Athiest heros.

[Tom Joad]

Methinks an earlier accusation of anti-Semitism may have some merit to it...:(

[KinjaKahn]

Wow, you are actually defending the Spanish Inquisition. I have to wonder, what did the cool-aid taste like?

Again, none of these people are Atheist leaders or heros. I've covered that very well in at least one post in this thread. A post you conveniently ignored. I'll not waste my time responding to your unfounded nonsense about Hitler et al. being Athiest heros.

If you don't like attacks... don't attack.

[Hotpapa666]

If you don't like attacks... don't attack.

Attack away. Just ground your attacks in reality. Show me the Atheist intellectuals praising Hitler, Stalin, et al.. You can't do it, because your assertion that Hitler, Stalin, et al., are heros and leaders of atheists is a bullshit assertion. You know it's bullshit, I've shot it down as bullshit in this thread (a post you didn't respond to) and you continue to put forth the bullshit.


My attacks, on the other hand, are all well founded in history. Facts of history. It may be difficult for some people to accept that their religion has been behind terrible crimes against humanity but it's true. I wish that people would, rather than trying to attack the messager, would take a critical look at their belief system, it's institutions and its tenets. Because, to me, it is impossible to believe that an omnipresent being would allow such evil to be done in his name...

[KinjaKahn]

Attack away. Just ground your attacks in reality. Show me the Atheist intellectuals praising Hitler, Stalin, et al.. You can't do it, because your assertion that Hitler, Stalin, et al., are heros and leaders of atheists is a bullshit assertion. You know it's bullshit, I've shot it down as bullshit in this thread (a post you didn't respond to) and you continue to put forth the bullshit.
Check this out.... I'm making a deck of atheist cards... Aces are the most powerful atheists in the history of the world, the remaining, cards all the way down to the jokers, for which one of the jokers I wrote hotpapa666, will be other famous atheists. So as you can see to compare you to other atheists is valid in the context of atheists. Sucks for you, but surely valid if you compare 15th century Spanish Catholics to any current Catholics, or the Catholic Church today.

My attacks, on the other hand, are all well founded in history. Facts of history. It may be difficult for some people to accept that their religion has been behind terrible crimes against humanity but it's true. I wish that people would, rather than trying to attack the messager, would take a critical look at their belief system, it's institutions and its tenets. Because, to me, it is impossible to believe that an omnipresent being would allow such evil to be done in his name...
How about you take a critical look, why were they done? What were the laws of the period? What was the evidence used in conducting the trials? Did you know less than 2% of the people to go on trial were put to death during the inquisition? The vast majority was either expelled from Spain, converted or repented.

Almost anyone can put a microscope on the past and point out the stupidity of the day, this doesn't make one an intellectual, in your case it's just a guy who cannot discern the difference in time.

[Hotpapa666]

Check this out.... I'm making a deck of atheist cards... Aces are the most powerful atheists in the history of the world, the remaining, cards all the way down to the jokers, for which one of the jokers I wrote hotpapa666, will be other famous atheists. So as you can see to compare you to other atheists is valid in the context of atheists. Sucks for you, but surely valid if you compare 15th century Spanish Catholics to any current Catholics, or the Catholic Church today.


How about you take a critical look, why were they done? What were the laws of the period? What was the evidence used in conducting the trials? Did you know less than 2% of the people to go on trial were put to death during the inquisition? The vast majority was either expelled from Spain, converted or repented.

Almost anyone can put a microscope on the past and point out the stupidity of the day, this doesn't make one an intellectual, in your case it's just a guy who cannot discern the difference in time.


Good luck with your deck of cards. Of course, you still can do nothing to my arguement. If you want to argue that the church is somehow forgiven for breaking the cunter my argument, but throwing out a red herring about a deck of cards work too, right? :confused:

If the church can openly break the ten commandments, and other tenets of its faith because of the social context of the time, well, so much for any moral absolutes associated with the Bible, the church or the church's interpretation of the Bible. What you are describing is the social orgin of much of human morality that I espouse. But, you can't have it both ways. You can't condemn homosexuality on absolute terms and defend the church based on the social context and laws of the time. The two concepts are absolutely and completely logically incompatable.

[i_hate_righties]

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a
woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall
surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Killing them is pretty much a ban.

Over the last few centuries, most Christians and Jews have rejected Leviticus 20:13. They no longer call on the death penalty for homosexuals. Only Christian Reconstructionists and a few Christian hate groups wish to revert to mass executions of gays and lesbians today.
Many religious liberals believe that this passage does not refer to all homosexual behavior, but only to a specific form of homosexual prostitution - that performed in a Pagan temple.
a word-for-word translation of this verse from the original Hebrew is:
"And a man who will lie down with a male in beds of a woman, both of them have made an abomination; dying they will die. Their blood is on them."

In modern English this could be translated as:
"If two men engage in homosexual sex while on a woman's bed, both have committed an abomination. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

This does not generally forbid homosexual behavior between two men. It only limits where the act can be done.

[KinjaKahn]

Good luck with your deck of cards. Of course, you still can do nothing to my arguement. If you want to argue that the church is somehow forgiven for breaking the cunter my argument, but throwing out a red herring about a deck of cards work too, right? :confused:
You have no argument. You are bashing religion for its longevity through 1000's of years, and holding it to account from the beginning through the dark ages to today based on a neophyte historians 2007 perspective.

If the church can openly break the ten commandments, and other tenets of its faith because of the social context of the time, well, so much for any moral absolutes associated with the Bible, the church or the church's interpretation of the Bible.
The is no commandment banning self defense.
What you are describing is the social orgin of much of human morality that I espouse. But, you can't have it both ways. You can't condemn homosexuality on absolute terms and defend the church based on the social context and laws of the time. The two concepts are absolutely and completely logically incompatable.
You are lost. The reason you are lost is that you fail in understanding that the King and Queen of Spain were devout Catholics. King and Queen make the Rules, just so happened that the rules were virtually identical to the Catholic Doctrine. When Kings come in conflict with the church, they can disregard the church, case in point the Creation of the Anglican Church of England. If the King and Queen of Spain, whose absolute rule is in effect, decide their social structure is in danger for whatever reason, it was their right to rectify the circumstance. (This is why the USA doesn't have a King or Queen.) The Catholic Church's prior history with Muslims and Jews weighs against them, and in favor of the Catholic King and Queen. This is the simplest reality in the context of the 15th century, chew it slow.

[Hotpapa666]

You have no argument. You are bashing religion for its longevity through 1000's of years, and holding it to account from the beginning through the dark ages to today based on a neophyte historians 2007 perspective.

I certainly do have an arguement. A religion, if it handed down by an omnipotent god needs to be consistent in its application of its morality otherwise it is not absolute, it is relativist and the result of man's will not god's. You are saying that the Catholic Church is justified in supporting its clergy as they break the Chruch's own tentets because of the historical needs of the time. You are, therefore, at least as far as the Catholic Church is concerned, a moral relativist. An Omnipotent god cannot be a moral relativist. So either the Catholic Church is guilty of breaking god's commandments, and commited great evils in so doing. Or there is no god. You can't have it both ways. And, because there are only two choices, one cannot in good conscious follow the Doctorine of the Catholic Church because it is either a great evil doer, or there is no god. The same argument can be made for every other Christian sect which is why the only real possible conclusion is that there is no god in the Christian sense.


You are lost. The reason you are lost is that you fail in understanding that the King and Queen of Spain were devout Catholics. King and Queen make the Rules, just so happened that the rules were virtually identical to the Catholic Doctrine. When Kings come in conflict with the church, they can disregard the church, case in point the Creation of the Anglican Church of England. If the King and Queen of Spain, whose absolute rule is in effect, decide their social structure is in danger for whatever reason, it was their right to rectify the circumstance. (This is why the USA doesn't have a King or Queen.) The Catholic Church's prior history with Muslims and Jews weighs against them, and in favor of the Catholic King and Queen. This is the simplest reality in the context of the 15th century, chew it slow.


Sure, that aspect of the history is true but it neglects that the Inquisitors worked with the consent of the Church, they were Clergy. If the church didn't want to participate in the evils of the Inquisition, they didn't have to. They could have left the King and Queen to do it for themselves, but they didn't. They activily commited the evils. Way to go.

[KinjaKahn]

I certainly do have an arguement. A religion, if it handed down by an omnipotent god needs to be consistent in its application of its morality otherwise it is not absolute, it is relativist and the result of man's will not god's. You are saying that the Catholic Church is justified in supporting its clergy as they break the Chruch's own tentets because of the historical needs of the time. You are, therefore, at least as far as the Catholic Church is concerned, a moral relativist. An Omnipotent god cannot be a moral relativist. So either the Catholic Church is guilty of breaking god's commandments, and commited great evils in so doing. Or there is no god. You can't have it both ways. And, because there are only two choices, one cannot in good conscious follow the Doctorine of the Catholic Church because it is either a great evil doer, or there is no god. The same argument can be made for every other Christian sect which is why the only real possible conclusion is that there is no god in the Christian sense.
How is it you get to define the ability of God? A simple question, I expect an answer.

Sure, that aspect of the history is true but it neglects that the Inquisitors worked with the consent of the Church, they were Clergy. If the church didn't want to participate in the evils of the Inquisition, they didn't have to. They could have left the King and Queen to do it for themselves, but they didn't. They activily commited the evils. Way to go.
You know nothing of the Catholic Church. What you seem to know about Christianity is not binding to the Catholic Church. St. Peter the Apostle, is the beginning of the Church. On these Instructions from Jesus...


When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon son of John, do you truly love me more than these?"
"Yes, Lord," he said, "you know that I love you."
Jesus said, "Feed my lambs."

Again Jesus said, "Simon son of John, do you truly love me?"
He answered, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you."
Jesus said, "Take care of my sheep."

The third time he said to him, "Simon son of John, do you love me?"
Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, "Do you love me?" He said, "Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you."
Jesus said, "Feed my sheep.
With this directive, Peter created the Catholic Church in Rome. Where he was crucified upside down, because he thought himself unworthy to die in the same manner as Jesus. Of course this is probably where I_Hate_Righties jumps in to declare Jesus and Peter to be Fags.

[i_hate_righties]

How is it you get to define the ability of God? A simple question, I expect an answer.


You know nothing of the Catholic Church. What you seem to know about Christianity is not binding to the Catholic Church. St. Peter the Apostle, is the beginning of the Church. On these Instructions from Jesus...


With this directive, Peter created the Catholic Church in Rome. Where he was crucified upside down, because he thought himself unworthy to die in the same manner as Jesus. Of course this is probably where I_Hate_Righties jumps in to declare Jesus and Peter to be Fags.


Certainly not....This is where I point out the fact that a great number of your priests, who are supposed to be emulating ST. Peter, by feeding Christ's sheep, are molesting little boys instead!

Most homosexuals are adults wanting to share a commited relationship with another adult of the same sex....Pedophiles are an abomination to God!

[Ed Who?]

Certainly not....This is where I point out the fact that a great number of your priests, who are supposed to be emulating ST. Peter, by feeding Christ's sheep, are molesting little boys instead!

Most homosexuals are adults wanting to share a commited relationship with another adult of the same sex....Pedophiles are an abomination to God!

This is the same God that has equated anger and murder.

Sin is sin. The problem is that the homosexual movement in the church has attempted to remove the SIN label from homosexuality. This has nothing to do with pedophilic priests. The Catholic Church should pay the price for allowing this stuff to fester, instead of outright removing the priests from their positions.

The problem is when a person decides that one particular sin is not a sin. That then becomes unrepented. The problem with our Politically-Correct, Don't Piss Anyone Off 'Cuz They Might Sue Me Society is that we've allowed a group to begin to dictate that. I care about those people, but I care more about those who will die because they have received the counsel of deceivers and selfish fools. But that's what's going to happen, read the Bible. There will be multitudes who will ignore the heed. That's not my place to decide who that will be. But if you decide to be a Christian, I'd suggest mightily that you read that Bible and understand just exactly what is being said. Sin will be punished. Jesus received the punishment for those who accept His sacrifice, so long as those sins have been confessed.

[KinjaKahn]

Certainly not....This is where I point out the fact that a great number of your priests, who are supposed to be emulating ST. Peter, by feeding Christ's sheep, are molesting little boys instead!

Most homosexuals are adults wanting to share a commited relationship with another adult of the same sex....Pedophiles are an abomination to God!
4% is the "great number" of American Priests, and I do not believe this percentage is typical of other nations.

[Hotpapa666]

How is it you get to define the ability of God? A simple question, I expect an answer..

Here you go, falling back on the one kernal that keeps Religion going. If there is a god, how do you know, and how does anyone define him? The same old arguing in shadows tactic that Religious people try everytime logic, or history, or science, or ..., paints them into a corner and shows them that their faith is based on flimsy premises.


I do not criticize anyone for faith. It is a completely understandable biproduct of being raised for one's entire life having Religious ideas pumped into one's head. I do think that it is important to work to eliminate religious thought from people's minds because getting rid of religion gets rid of a massive justification for horrendous crimes against humanity (the purpose of this thread being to illuminate some of those).


You know nothing of the Catholic Church. What you seem to know about Christianity is not binding to the Catholic Church. St. Peter the Apostle, is the beginning of the Church. On these Instructions from Jesus....

I know tons about the Catholic Church, it's history and its foundations. That's why it so easy for me to criticize the act of following anything that that corrupt institution suggests in way leading ones life.


With this directive, Peter created the Catholic Church in Rome. Where he was crucified upside down, because he thought himself unworthy to die in the same manner as Jesus. Of course this is probably where I_Hate_Righties jumps in to declare Jesus and Peter to be Fags.

And he is entombed under the alter at St. Peter's, where I have visited half a dozen times. Where I watched the Pope (John Paul) give Mass. I often wonder if people get the symbolism of the name Peter, or the Latin, Pietro (def. stone) as the Rock upon which Christ built his church, I know he is taught as such, but I wonder if people get the etomology...

[Hotpapa666]

This is the same God that has equated anger and murder.

Sin is sin. The problem is that the homosexual movement in the church has attempted to remove the SIN label from homosexuality. This has nothing to do with pedophilic priests. The Catholic Church should pay the price for allowing this stuff to fester, instead of outright removing the priests from their positions.

The problem is when a person decides that one particular sin is not a sin. That then becomes unrepented. The problem with our Politically-Correct, Don't Piss Anyone Off 'Cuz They Might Sue Me Society is that we've allowed a group to begin to dictate that. I care about those people, but I care more about those who will die because they have received the counsel of deceivers and selfish fools. But that's what's going to happen, read the Bible. There will be multitudes who will ignore the heed. That's not my place to decide who that will be. But if you decide to be a Christian, I'd suggest mightily that you read that Bible and understand just exactly what is being said. Sin will be punished. Jesus received the punishment for those who accept His sacrifice, so long as those sins have been confessed.


Yes, I feel the same way about people who eat pork and shrimp and clams. Those fuckers need to called out as the SINNERS they are.

[IBC]

Yes, I feel the same way about people who eat pork and shrimp and clams. Those fuckers need to called out as the SINNERS they are.

Mmmmmm.... pork and shrimp and clams......

[Ed Who?]

Yes, I feel the same way about people who eat pork and shrimp and clams. Those fuckers need to called out as the SINNERS they are.

Interesting that Jesus abolished food laws in the same section of Scripture where He declared sexual immorality (and many other) a sin of the heart that needed to be confessed.

[IBC]

Interesting that Jesus abolished food laws in the same section of Scripture where He declared sexual immorality (and many other) a sin of the heart that needed to be confessed.

What did he say about homosexuality there? Oh nothing? Better change the bible again.

[Ed Who?]

What did he say about homosexuality there? Oh nothing? Better change the bible again.

You believe what you want. God will sort it out in the end. You've been warned.

[IBC]

You believe what you want. God will sort it out in the end. You've been warned.

By you? So I will burn in eternal hell for not saying homosexuals are going to hell?

[Ed Who?]

By you? So I will burn in eternal hell for not saying homosexuals are going to hell?

I could imagine that a homosexual who was influenced by your "opinion" could in fact be blood on your hands, but I'm not the one to say.

[IBC]

I could imagine that a homosexual who was influenced by your "opinion" could in fact be blood on your hands, but I'm not the one to say.

Oh, I see. Well just know that I think that is ridiculous.

[Hotpapa666]

I ate diner tonight at a Sicilian Restaurant tonight. Great food, and I was able to speak Italian to my Japanese Waiter. Shibuya is a great neighborhood.... It got me thinking. This instalmant is just a curious look into religious furment 500 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girolamo_Savonarola

As a result of Savonarola's teaching, one of the greatest painters ever(Bottecelli) stopped painting what he excelled at, alogorical painting and commited himself to only painting religious works. Ugh.

One great thing, the restaurant that bears his name that sits in the shadow of the sculpture in the article in Ferrara has some of the best roast pork on the planet...

[BoredWithNoSB]

Last night I was almost turned on to exporing religion further and then turned off just two minutes later.

I had a long drive from Louisville to Ann Arbor. So, in Mid Ohio (between Dayton & Toledo) I started listening to what was an outstanding religious broadcast explaining that religious folks need to get off their high horse and think about things from the athiest perspective when trying to have religious conversations. He explained by taking the time to understand how they think you could sell them on God in their own terms and explain the sins of their ways, not in a way they looked down upon them but in a way that sold them on a better lifestyle. He explained that the best way to understand them is by understanding their paradigm and speaking to them in a way that they can relate, while trying to shift their paradigm. He explained everybody was gods creation and everybody had the same desire for eternal happiness, but had a different idea on what that meant. This dude had me jazzed about looking up more stuff about his ministry.

Two minutes later, I turn to a different religion station where the guy is going all Kinja/Ed on people. He's talking about how those who don't know God are inferior and how God's followers shouldn't even bother selling them on God since they are not enlightened by God and thus are hopeless and will never understand any argument you could make for God. He was saying all people who are gay, for instance, live in sin and cannot be allowed to accept God, and that it was OK to judge them since you are judging them with the knowledge of God. They on the other hand had no right to judge your lifestyle since they had not been enlightened by God. This guy was basically saying there were two groups, a superior group of belivers who could spit upon the other inferior group of non-belivers with God's blessing.

Follwoing that, I realized, again, that I'll never know what religion is more accurate. So, what's the point of choosing one. If I follow the religion of the first guy, I could be happy with myself, but if the second guy is right, there's no point to it as I'm still a peice of garbage in God's mind and th emind of the church.

So, I'll go back to simply crossing my fingers and hoping I'm right that God will forgive me if in fact there is one since he's the one who created this mess.

[IBC]

Last night I was almost turned on to exporing religion further and then turned off just two minutes later.

I had a long drive from Louisville to Ann Arbor. So, in Mid Ohio (between Dayton & Toledo) I started listening to what was an outstanding religious broadcast explaining that religious folks need to get off their high horse and think about things from the athiest perspective when trying to have religious conversations. He explained by taking the time to understand how they think you could sell them on God in their own terms and explain the sins of their ways, not in a way they looked down upon them but in a way that sold them on a better lifestyle. He explained that the best way to understand them is by understanding their paradigm and speaking to them in a way that they can relate, while trying to shift their paradigm. He explained everybody was gods creation and everybody had the same desire for eternal happiness, but had a different idea on what that meant. This dude had me jazzed about looking up more stuff about his ministry.

Two minutes later, I turn to a different religion station where the guy is going all Kinja/Ed on people. He's talking about how those who don't know God are inferior and how God's followers shouldn't even bother selling them on God since they are not enlightened by God and thus are hopeless and will never understand any argument you could make for God. He was saying all people who are gay, for instance, live in sin and cannot be allowed to accept God, and that it was OK to judge them since you are judging them with the knowledge of God. They on the other hand had no right to judge your lifestyle since they had not been enlightened by God. This guy was basically saying there were two groups, a superior group of belivers who could spit upon the other inferior group of non-belivers with God's blessing.

Follwoing that, I realized, again, that I'll never know what religion is more accurate. So, what's the point of choosing one. If I follow the religion of the first guy, I could be happy with myself, but if the second guy is right, there's no point to it as I'm still a peice of garbage in God's mind and th emind of the church.

So, I'll go back to simply crossing my fingers and hoping I'm right that God will forgive me if in fact there is one since he's the one who created this mess.

Fine, just burn in hell then. Lake of fire. You like fags, I don't. Go clean your shitty towels.

[BoredWithNoSB]

Fine, just burn in hell then. Lake of fire. You like fags, I don't. Go clean your shitty towels.

You must have heard guy #2, as well.

I find it to be a compelling argument for the appeals of religion. I don't know why a homosexual person wouldn't buy into it too.

[Hotpapa666]

Last night I was almost turned on to exporing religion further and then turned off just two minutes later.

I had a long drive from Louisville to Ann Arbor. So, in Mid Ohio (between Dayton & Toledo) I started listening to what was an outstanding religious broadcast explaining that religious folks need to get off their high horse and think about things from the athiest perspective when trying to have religious conversations. He explained by taking the time to understand how they think you could sell them on God in their own terms and explain the sins of their ways, not in a way they looked down upon them but in a way that sold them on a better lifestyle. He explained that the best way to understand them is by understanding their paradigm and speaking to them in a way that they can relate, while trying to shift their paradigm. He explained everybody was gods creation and everybody had the same desire for eternal happiness, but had a different idea on what that meant. This dude had me jazzed about looking up more stuff about his ministry.

Two minutes later, I turn to a different religion station where the guy is going all Kinja/Ed on people. He's talking about how those who don't know God are inferior and how God's followers shouldn't even bother selling them on God since they are not enlightened by God and thus are hopeless and will never understand any argument you could make for God. He was saying all people who are gay, for instance, live in sin and cannot be allowed to accept God, and that it was OK to judge them since you are judging them with the knowledge of God. They on the other hand had no right to judge your lifestyle since they had not been enlightened by God. This guy was basically saying there were two groups, a superior group of belivers who could spit upon the other inferior group of non-belivers with God's blessing.

Follwoing that, I realized, again, that I'll never know what religion is more accurate. So, what's the point of choosing one. If I follow the religion of the first guy, I could be happy with myself, but if the second guy is right, there's no point to it as I'm still a peice of garbage in God's mind and th emind of the church.

So, I'll go back to simply crossing my fingers and hoping I'm right that God will forgive me if in fact there is one since he's the one who created this mess.

As many people know, I am a confirmed Atheist. However, I love Christian Radio/TV. Listening to these guy toture logic is magical comedy. My personal favorite, is when they ask for money, there seems to be a money crisis every month or so, and the preacher always brings out Biblical directives in support of Tything (sp). Fucking hilarious. The new thing to do is to talk about the lord multiplying your blessings. Because, you see, when the lord multiplies nothing he gets nothing, but when you give him something (do a little dance) he can (raise your voice) move mountains, mountains I say. And when you commit to the lord you can watch your bank account GROW! Hallelujah. Can I get a Hallelujah? YES!

[Morgasm]

As many people know, I am a confirmed Atheist. However, I love Christian Radio/TV. Listening to these guy toture logic is magical comedy. My personal favorite, is when they ask for money, there seems to be a money crisis every month or so, and the preacher always brings out Biblical directives in support of Tything (sp). Fucking hilarious. The new thing to do is to talk about the lord multiplying your blessings. Because, you see, when the lord multiplies nothing he gets nothing, but when you give him something (do a little dance) he can (raise your voice) move mountains, mountains I say. And when you commit to the lord you can watch your bank account GROW! Hallelujah. Can I get a Hallelujah? YES!

As a Christian, I'm embarrassed that this is the message being spread.

That ain't at all what it's about.

[Hotpapa666]

As a Christian, I'm embarrassed that this is the message being spread.

That ain't at all what it's about.

I empathize.

I actually think that Christianity has the potential to be a valuable, world improving (considering both sides of the ledger) institution. So does Islam, Budism, Shinto and all the rest. The problem is that Human beings steer the ship, not an omnipotent god. And, like any man run institution, there is potential for all types of reprehensible behavior; the purpose of this thread is to highlight that behavior.

[ryr8828]

I empathize.

I actually think that Christianity has the potential to be a valuable, world improving (considering both sides of the ledger) institution. So does Islam, Budism, Shinto and all the rest. The problem is that Human beings steer the ship, not an omnipotent god. And, like any man run institution, there is potential for all types of reprehensible behavior; the purpose of this thread is to highlight that behavior.

I thought your purpose here was to convince people there was no God, and to lead them away from God.

[Ed Who?]

I empathize.

I actually think that Christianity has the potential to be a valuable, world improving (considering both sides of the ledger) institution. So does Islam, Budism, Shinto and all the rest. The problem is that Human beings steer the ship, not an omnipotent god. And, like any man run institution, there is potential for all types of reprehensible behavior; the purpose of this thread is to highlight that behavior.

But if I, as a Christian, were to start a thread highlighting the "reprehensible behavior" of each religion including atheism and agnosticism, you would then consider that to be reprehensible and un-Christian.

[Hotpapa666]

I thought your purpose here was to convince people there was no God, and to lead them away from God.


Nope.

[Hotpapa666]

But if I, as a Christian, were to start a thread highlighting the "reprehensible behavior" of each religion including atheism and agnosticism, you would then consider that to be reprehensible and un-Christian.

Maybe, but only tonuge in cheak. You should highlight the reprehensible behavior of every religion on the planet, including your own. I won't call you a bad christian, or a bad anything. Knowledge is good.

[Morgasm]

Maybe, but only tonuge in cheak. You should highlight the reprehensible behavior of every religion on the planet, including your own. I won't call you a bad christian, or a bad anything. Knowledge is good.

You seem to be a smart guy, so maybe when you hear the mediots on TV/Radio that you know don't represent the religion well, then maybe it's time to ignore them.

No point in basing your opinion of a religion on the people who you know don't represent what it stands for.

[thrasymachus]

What's the point of this thread? Has Christianity somehow done something wrong to you personally? Just curious.

[KinjaKahn]

Maybe, but only tonuge in cheak. You should highlight the reprehensible behavior of every religion on the planet, including your own. I won't call you a bad christian, or a bad anything. Knowledge is good.
How long should we highlight bad behavior? 900 years for the crusades? 500 for the inquisition? 400 years for the Witch Trials? All this should be a "Front Page" story for how long? The Homo Pedophile Priest scandal should be on the news for another, 300 years, 600 years, 1200 years? You post this stuff like nobody really knows and you are bringing the revelation. All this stuff was taught in grade school, Crusades, Inquisition, & Salem... If this stuff is not being taught in school anymore, you only have yourself and other anti-faith nuts to blame.

[Hotpapa666]

I'll handle all of the questions in one post.

What's my point? I've posted concisely on what my point is several times, re-read the thread and you'll read it.

To Morgasm, there are several problems with Christianity. One is that noone seems able to define it, one group can make good point that homosexual behavior is bibilical immoral, another group can rip that argument to shreds. So is christianity a good guide for living moral life? If Christians can't define their own morality based on their own book of morality, how could it be? Another problem is that noone, including religious leaders, is able to live by any reasonable interpretation of that moral code. If it's impossible to live by a moral code what's the use of that moral code? It's like instructions on how to fly by flapping your arms; it's just impossible. Lastly, and the major point of this thread, is that because people, religious and otherwise, are incapable of living their lives by the Christian moral code it does nothing to improve people's behavior and that can easily be illuminated by looking at the attrociaties that have been commited throughtout history by religious people, religion's leaders, the church itself, etc.. There are all kinds of conclusions that can be drawn from that...

To Kinja, it may look like I am picking on your particular branch of Christianity but I'm not, your branch has had a longer history of depravity than other branches so there are more examples. I'll get to the others...

[MTVike]

I'll handle all of the questions in one post.

What's my point? I've posted concisely on what my point is several times, re-read the thread and you'll read it.

To Morgasm, there are several problems with Christianity. One is that noone seems able to define it, one group can make good point that homosexual behavior is bibilical immoral, another group can rip that argument to shreds. So is christianity a good guide for living moral life? If Christians can't define their own morality based on their own book of morality, how could it be? Another problem is that noone, including religious leaders, is able to live by any reasonable interpretation of that moral code. If it's impossible to live by a moral code what's the use of that moral code? It's like instructions on how to fly by flapping your arms; it's just impossible. Lastly, and the major point of this thread, is that because people, religious and otherwise, are incapable of living their lives by the Christian moral code it does nothing to improve people's behavior and that can easily be illuminated by looking at the attrociaties that have been commited throughtout history by religious people, religion's leaders, the church itself, etc.. There are all kinds of conclusions that can be drawn from that...

To Kinja, it may look like I am picking on your particular branch of Christianity but I'm not, your branch has had a longer history of depravity than other branches so there are more examples. I'll get to the others...

Depravity? Good God, man. The church has done much more good for humanity than ill. There are few if any headlines concerning the charities, hospitals, orphanages, schools and other benevolent efforts instituted by the church. They apparently don't carry the same weight as the stories the newspapers and TV news bloodsuckers you're referring to.

The modern culture revels in the sins of men, especially those of the church, because it has no pretense about advocating the Christian life. Living according to the ideal of Christianity doesn't sell, you know?

Read up on Mother Theresa if you need an example of a modern saint. It's too bad she didn't grab the headlines she deserved in our culture.

[Hotpapa666]

Depravity? Good God, man. The church has done much more good for humanity than ill. There are few if any headlines concerning the charities, hospitals, orphanages, schools and other benevolent efforts instituted by the church. They apparently don't carry the same weight as the stories the newspapers and TV news bloodsuckers you're referring to.

The modern culture revels in the sins of men, especially those of the church, because it has no pretense about advocating the Christian life. Living according to the ideal of Christianity doesn't sell, you know?

Read up on Mother Theresa if you need an example of a modern saint. It's too bad she didn't grab the headlines she deserved in our culture.


I don't know what you call institutional forced prostution of teenaged girls for hundreds of years. Or the moving of child raping priests to other areas to rape children again instead of turning them in. I'll stick to calling that depravity.

Modern culture reveals in the sins of man by Christian standards, because, Christian Standards of sins if a person isn't a saint he is a sinner, and reveals in sin. Futher, every culture in the history of humanity has revealed in sin by Christian Standards. That doesn't make the people bad, it makes the standard bad.

I know all about the good things that religious have done. But, if you put them on a balance with all of the bad things they have done, the tilt of the scale looks no different than the balance of non-Christian groups. Christianity doesn't make people better, people do good things because they are good people. Putting a collar on doesn't raise or lower the chances that you treat people with kindness anymore than it raises or lowers the wearers proclivity to rape young boys.

[BoredWithNoSB]

Futher, every culture in the history of humanity has revealed in sin by Christian Standards. That doesn't make the people bad, it makes the standard bad.

This is the only statement I really disagree with. The standard is the standard. You can't say 'it's hard, so it must not be true'.

It's hard to learn particle physics, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[Hotpapa666]

This is the only statement I really disagree with. The standard is the standard. You can't say 'it's hard, so it must not be true'.

It's hard to learn particle physics, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

You might be right. I may have mistyped.

But, I might make the counterargument that moral dicta like a prohibition on homosexuality, or making it immoral to whorship other gods are not needed to have a desirable civilization. Which is really the role of a moral code; to have a desirable civilization.

[Ed Who?]

Depravity? Good God, man. The church has done much more good for humanity than ill. There are few if any headlines concerning the charities, hospitals, orphanages, schools and other benevolent efforts instituted by the church. They apparently don't carry the same weight as the stories the newspapers and TV news bloodsuckers you're referring to.

The modern culture revels in the sins of men, especially those of the church, because it has no pretense about advocating the Christian life. Living according to the ideal of Christianity doesn't sell, you know?

Read up on Mother Theresa if you need an example of a modern saint. It's too bad she didn't grab the headlines she deserved in our culture.

And yet he is willing to quote the person who does not believe in a higher power. Without a belief in a higher power, is there a reason to tell the truth? If he/she wants to spread lies in order to promote the demise of Christianity, in their mind there is no recourse, right? In other words, Hotpapa could very well be the zombie mind-controlled person that he thinks Christians are, just working for a rather evil, deceitful force.

I know there are plenty of negative stories about those who profess Christ. That's unfortunate, but I believe those people will be dealt with in Heaven, perhaps with a blessing much less than what they would have received had they trusted in the Lord instead of their own selfish desires.

[BoredWithNoSB]

Without a belief in a higher power, is there a reason to tell the truth? If he/she wants to spread lies in order to promote the demise of Christianity, in their mind there is no recourse, right?



Many athiest are pure belivers in the search for truth. That is just as much of a reason not to lie as the fear of God (who will forgive you if you ask for it later, anyway).

Again, neither side in this discussion is morally superior than the other. I truly beleive most humans have the same basic motivations. The difference is how and when we will acheive paradise.

[Reagan Smash]

And yet he is willing to quote the person who does not believe in a higher power. Without a belief in a higher power, is there a reason to tell the truth? If he/she wants to spread lies in order to promote the demise of Christianity, in their mind there is no recourse, right? In other words, Hotpapa could very well be the zombie mind-controlled person that he thinks Christians are, just working for a rather evil, deceitful force.

I know there are plenty of negative stories about those who profess Christ. That's unfortunate, but I believe those people will be dealt with in Heaven, perhaps with a blessing much less than what they would have received had they trusted in the Lord instead of their own selfish desires.


I thought the Higher Power was Vince McMahon?

[Ed Who?]

Many athiest are pure belivers in the search for truth. That is just as much of a reason not to lie as the fear of God (who will forgive you if you ask for it later, anyway).

Again, neither side in this discussion is morally superior than the other. I truly beleive most humans have the same basic motivations. The difference is how and when we will acheive paradise.

It's a double-edged sword. The "secular search for truth" would just-so-happen to be an effective way to lure people away from a relationship with God.

Choices need to be made, and made wisely.

[thrasymachus]

I'll handle all of the questions in one post.

What's my point? I've posted concisely on what my point is several times, re-read the thread and you'll read it.



So I've gone back a little and it seems like your "point" is to show that Christians shouldn't be so high no themselves. And that Christians have no moral superiority over Atheists.

I suppose I don't disagree with you. It just seems like your methods go overboard. There's no need to bring up historical atrocities committed by Christians. We could have a perfectly fine discussion about this without going into that. It just seems like you wanted to offend people by bringing this up.

I guess that's it. I haven't read the entire thread (obviously) so maybe a good discussion was created by it. I'll have to go back and read a little more.

[Hotpapa666]

So I've gone back a little and it seems like your "point" is to show that Christians shouldn't be so high no themselves. And that Christians have no moral superiority over Atheists.

I suppose I don't disagree with you. It just seems like your methods go overboard. There's no need to bring up historical atrocities committed by Christians. We could have a perfectly fine discussion about this without going into that. It just seems like you wanted to offend people by bringing this up.

I guess that's it. I haven't read the entire thread (obviously) so maybe a good discussion was created by it. I'll have to go back and read a little more.

I'm not trying to ofend anyone. As I've said, one of the reasons religious people use to justify their beliefs is that it makes people better. Without concrete examples, the discussion is reduced to "No it doesn't.", "Yes it does.". There is no value in that. I think this has lead to some interesting discussion and stirring shit is far from my aim.

[Ed Who?]

I'm not trying to ofend anyone. As I've said, one of the reasons religious people use to justify their beliefs is that it makes people better. Without concrete examples, the discussion is reduced to "No it doesn't.", "Yes it does.". There is no value in that. I think this has lead to some interesting discussion and stirring shit is far from my aim.

Let's say you get a Wii for Christmas. I'd assume that you'd consider it an awesome gift. Well, let's say that you try to use it as a football instead of a gaming console. You won't find it to be a useful gift; instead, you're trying to use it in a way that it's not intended.

The same thing could be said for Christianity. Maybe Person A decides to use it as a way to profit themselves. Or Person B wants to insert a personal agenda. Person C is interested in being a Christian to meet people and gain popularity amongst the community.

Christianity could be considered like the gift above. I'd posit that most of the poor examples of Christians you could mention would have come from a case where the person in question inserted themselves into the equation, instead of allowing God to be every part of the equation. Denying oneself is a hallmark of Christianity; it's even called allowing yourself to die. The more we allow our "old self" to inhabit our daily existence, the more we will transgress.

And yes, one would assume that the leaders of Christianity would have this "dying of self" down pat, but it doesn't work that way. Many times it's because of the things above, which all more or less deal with the "old self" getting in the way of Jesus (it could be called selfishness or greed, or simply sin).

One final thing...

to show that Christians shouldn't be so high no themselves

Maybe Vegas can give me some support on this, but in my humble opinion, any Christian who considers themselves better than anyone else has a long way to go on their Christian walk.

[Hotpapa666]

Let's say you get a Wii for Christmas. I'd assume that you'd consider it an awesome gift. Well, let's say that you try to use it as a football instead of a gaming console. You won't find it to be a useful gift; instead, you're trying to use it in a way that it's not intended.

The same thing could be said for Christianity. Maybe Person A decides to use it as a way to profit themselves. Or Person B wants to insert a personal agenda. Person C is interested in being a Christian to meet people and gain popularity amongst the community.

Christianity could be considered like the gift above. I'd posit that most of the poor examples of Christians you could mention would have come from a case where the person in question inserted themselves into the equation, instead of allowing God to be every part of the equation. Denying oneself is a hallmark of Christianity; it's even called allowing yourself to die. The more we allow our "old self" to inhabit our daily existence, the more we will transgress.

And yes, one would assume that the leaders of Christianity would have this "dying of self" down pat, but it doesn't work that way. Many times it's because of the things above, which all more or less deal with the "old self" getting in the way of Jesus (it could be called selfishness or greed, or simply sin).

One final thing...



Maybe Vegas can give me some support on this, but in my humble opinion, any Christian who considers themselves better than anyone else has a long way to go on their Christian walk.


This is just another situation where you want to work around the moral short-coming through losely fitting metaphors. If someone is dumb enough to play with a Wii like a football they deserve the pile of broken plastic they end up with. But, even the dumbest members of over species have the sense to, when shown how a Wii operates, to not throw it around like a football. The same can't be said for religious morality where everything from giving your daughters up to being gang raped by an angry mob (it's in the Bible) to killing babies (again in the Bible) is justified.

[Ed Who?]

This is just another situation where you want to work around the moral short-coming through losely fitting metaphors. If someone is dumb enough to play with a Wii like a football they deserve the pile of broken plastic they end up with. But, even the dumbest members of over species have the sense to, when shown how a Wii operates, to not throw it around like a football. The same can't be said for religious morality where everything from giving your daughters up to being gang raped by an angry mob (it's in the Bible) to killing babies (again in the Bible) is justified.

Don't worry, God will still be there when you finally drop the Wii.

[IBC]

It's a double-edged sword. The "secular search for truth" would just-so-happen to be an effective way to lure people away from a relationship with God.

Choices need to be made, and made wisely.

Because the "secular search for truth" tends to discover science that contradicts those who believe in the Bible as the literal word of God, doesn't mean that is the desired effect.

[Ed Who?]

Because the "secular search for truth" tends to discover science that contradicts those who believe in the Bible as the literal word of God, doesn't mean that is the desired effect.

Any person who claims to have faith in the Lord and Jesus would never seek to prove His existence and claims. The need to have it proven for a person demonstrates a lack of faith.

['Lifer]

Any person who claims to have faith in the Lord and Jesus would never seek to prove His existence and claims. The need to have it proven for a person demonstrates a lack of faith.

Pretty hard to argue with that.

[IBC]

Pretty hard to argue with that.

Oh, I see. That is logic?

['Lifer]

Oh, I see. That is logic?

For believers, yes.

And the older I become, the more religion confuses me.

[IBC]

For believers, yes.

And the older I become, the more religion confuses me.

I just don't think faith means to never question. However, there is one definition that says faith is believing something for which there is no proof.

[Ed Who?]

I just don't think faith means to never question. However, there is one definition that says faith is believing something for which there is no proof.

I actually believe that faith is never questioning. But I fall short of that, and as far as I can tell it's one of those unattainable perfections that we humans can't possibly reach on our own. I don't think a lack of absolute faith will mean a person's demise, heck Peter denied Jesus three times and Thomas needed to touch the wounds to believe...God understands our many flaws.

[IBC]

I actually believe that faith is never questioning. But I fall short of that, and as far as I can tell it's one of those unattainable perfections that we humans can't possibly reach on our own. I don't think a lack of absolute faith will mean a person's demise, heck Peter denied Jesus three times and Thomas needed to touch the wounds to believe...God understands our many flaws.

I tend to think that questioning is one of our better traits. Blindly following is one of our worst. Different strokes I suppose.

['Lifer]

It was so easy to believe as a child with no questions asked. It simply seemed part of life and what we do and believe.....being raised in the Church. Then Madalyn Murray O'Hair came to surface and rocked my world. How could this be I thought.

As I grew older, I became more aware of religious wars, disagreement and finger pointing. I was simply told to "just believe and have faith" but yet I felt many in the world disagreed with my beliefs and what I was taught to be correct.

It's hard to believe sometimes when so many people are fighting and killing, simply because they "know" their way is the only way to practice reliegion.

Then bad things happen to good people.

The more exposed I become to other faiths.....the more I become confused.....and question.

Why am I to think "my way" is right? Why should I believe a Bible that has possibly been translated to suit the rulers at the time?

[MTVike]

It was so easy to believe as a child with no questions asked. It simply seemed part of life and what we do and believe.....being raised in the Church. Then Madalyn Murray O'Hair came to surface and rocked my world. How could this be I thought.

As I grew older, I became more aware of religious wars, disagreement and finger pointing. I was simply told to "just believe and have faith" but yet I felt many in the world disagreed with my beliefs and what I was taught to be correct.

It's hard to believe sometimes when so many people are fighting and killing, simply because they "know" their way is the only way to practice reliegion.

Then bad things happen to good people.

The more exposed I become to other faiths.....the more I become confused.....and question.

Why am I to think "my way" is right? Why should I believe a Bible that has possibly been translated to suit the rulers at the time?

Good points, and ones I've struggled with from time to time, also. I think it is up to each of us to learn the truth about God in our way...whether it is to find peace in the religion one has been born into, or to find another path.

The conversion happens within.

[LSU]

Any person who claims to have faith in the Lord and Jesus would never seek to prove His existence and claims. The need to have it proven for a person demonstrates a lack of faith.


So all the people trying to prove Creation/ID or to prove evolution wrong are Godless heathens.

[LSU]

Is it more virtuous to blindly follow or to question and still end up with God?

['Lifer]

Is it more virtuous to blindly follow or to question and still end up with God?

I can't help but question.

The way I live my life gives me comfort when the end comes.

[KinjaKahn]

So all the people trying to prove Creation/ID or to prove evolution wrong are Godless heathens.
No. Exposing the god of atheism aka Big Bang/Evolution is not proving God. Just showing that the "intellectuals" are in denial about their faith in their god.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v693/kinjakahn/atheistgod.jpg

[Hotpapa666]

No. Exposing the god of atheism aka Big Bang/Evolution is not proving God. Just showing that the "intellectuals" are in denial about their faith in their god.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v693/kinjakahn/atheistgod.jpg

I don't know about the millions of other atheists out there, or billions of non-christians out there but I am in denial of nothing. Of course, it is easy to through out baseless statments like this. It's impossible to come up with concrete examples where it has benefited society.

I'm perplexed by the picture of the big bang. Which, isn't the god of Atheism. Atheists don't have a god. Don't confuse your faith based thinking scheme with rationality and science. They are different animals.

[KinjaKahn]

I don't know about the millions of other atheists out there, or billions of non-christians out there but I am in denial of nothing. Of course, it is easy to through out baseless statments like this. It's impossible to come up with concrete examples where it has benefited society.

I'm perplexed by the picture of the big bang. Which, isn't the god of Atheism. Atheists don't have a god. Don't confuse your faith based thinking scheme with rationality and science. They are different animals.
Those in denial are often perplexed when confronted with truth. Your science is your religion. Based on faith and a molecular miracle called evolution. Your Big Bang god gave you a universe, gave you a galaxy, gave you a star, gave you a solar system, and an ecosystem to birth your miracle. The god of the religion of math and matter is called the Big Bang and your belief in the Big Bang is based on faith.

[Ed Who?]

So all the people trying to prove Creation/ID or to prove evolution wrong are Godless heathens.

God's existance needs no justification, at least in my mind. When He is working in someone, it's very plain to see. Some will board the bus, and some will be left behind. I wish everyone could be saved, but the Bible makes it clear that it's not going to happen.

[BoredWithNoSB]

No. Exposing the god of atheism aka Big Bang/Evolution is not proving God. Just showing that the "intellectuals" are in denial about their faith in their god.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v693/kinjakahn/atheistgod.jpg

The big bang does not specifically exclude god from being possible. At some point the signularity had to be created by something. The, you have to explain how you exist. You had to be born, which meant your father had to be born, which meant all your ancestors in cycle had to be born and live to maturity, which means that the animals you evolved from lived to maturity and had children, which means that the protozoa they evolved from survived and multiplied because the energy at the creatio of life created some sort of viable organism, becuase carbon existed on the earth to be infused with energy, and becuase the earth just happens to have a perfect temperature for sustaining life, and becuase the big bang created just the right mix of hydrogen and helium. The big bang also just happnned to create electrons and protons and gravitrons all at just the right proportional size and energy. The rate of the big bang also happenned just right to allow the universe to expand at a rate which allows us to exist for some time without the universe collapsing upon itself or expanding out into the horizon.

After reading the bok I mentioned earlier (cosmic jackpot) I beleive there's a lot we don't know and am a lot mre open to God. Not the God of the bible, possibly, but the absurd number of coincidences means its not as simple as a single bang and 'poof' you're eventually here.

[Morgasm]

God's existance needs no justification, at least in my mind. When He is working in someone, it's very plain to see. Some will board the bus, and some will be left behind. I wish everyone could be saved, but the Bible makes it clear that it's not going to happen.

This is something that I struggle with a lot. Reading the New Testament at face value (especially Ephesians), it would seem that there will be some "haves," and some "have nots."

That said, there is just as much writing about God sending Jesus as the reconciliation of all things. The language is hard to decipher.

That said, the point of it all isn't to go about touting some as being "in," and others as being "out." Jesus served those who the world considered outsiders, and almost all of his instruction and rebuking found in the Bible was directed toward the religious leaders who thought they had it all figured out. His teaching subverted just about everything the religious leaders of His day were touting as absolute truth.

His teaching was so radical for the culture he lived in. Christians have tried hard (not necessarily in an intentional manner, and myself included, admittedly) to distort his message, which is seen, IMO, when religious differences and beliefs get in the way of loving God and serving others.

[Hotpapa666]

Those in denial are often perplexed when confronted with truth. Your science is your religion. Based on faith and a molecular miracle called evolution. Your Big Bang god gave you a universe, gave you a galaxy, gave you a star, gave you a solar system, and an ecosystem to birth your miracle. The god of the religion of math and matter is called the Big Bang and your belief in the Big Bang is based on faith.


Once again, I've repeated this to you so many times I have lost count, Science is not faith. Science is an evidenced based methodology used to understand the universe. It is a very simple way of asking and answering questions. Faith is belief without evidence, there is plenty of evidence for the big bang.

[Ed Who?]

That said, the point of it all isn't to go about touting some as being "in," and others as being "out." Jesus served those who the world considered outsiders, and almost all of his instruction and rebuking found in the Bible was directed toward the religious leaders who thought they had it all figured out. His teaching subverted just about everything the religious leaders of His day were touting as absolute truth.

His teaching was so radical for the culture he lived in. Christians have tried hard (not necessarily in an intentional manner, and myself included, admittedly) to distort his message, which is seen, IMO, when religious differences and beliefs get in the way of loving God and serving others.

I agrre with most of what you're saying. He served outsiders, but remember that those outsiders had put all their faith in Him as well. The hemorraging woman, scum of the earth in the eyes of the Pharisee who asked for Jesus to heal his dying child, stepped out on the end of her rope to touch the edge of His robe to receive healing. It's not the social status, it's the faith. From President to pauper, that's the model for our salvation.

[IBC]

God's existance needs no justification, at least in my mind. When He is working in someone, it's very plain to see. Some will board the bus, and some will be left behind. I wish everyone could be saved, but the Bible makes it clear that it's not going to happen.

Ahhh, the left behind thing. I will be waiting.....

['Lifer]

Ahhh, the left behind thing. I will be waiting.....

For the seven-headed beast? :eek:

[swordfish]

For the seven-headed beast? :eek:

http://i.realone.com/assets/rn/img/6/1/5/1/11111516-11111519-slarge.jpg

??

[IBC]

For the seven-headed beast? :eek:

For whoever kills me because I don't accept the word of God. After all, the fact that Jesus is coming back any time now is clearly written in the Bible. Any time now, any time.

[ryr8828]

For whoever kills me because I don't accept the word of God. After all, the fact that Jesus is coming back any time now is clearly written in the Bible. Any time now, any time.
That would be yourself.