Creationists lose an unwitting ally

[Roy Munson]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/25/science/25jacobson.html?_r=1&ex=1351051200&en=e4cb25d3a3117e03&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&oref=slogin

[Hotpapa666]

Thanks for posting this. I read this awhile back and found it pretty humorous. Creationists are desperate to find any credible voice whose words they can twist into fitting with their antiquated world view. The sad thing is that the people who get duped by the anti-evolution P.O.V. aren't going to read this, or any of the other articles that highlight the dishonesty of their leaders.

[Vegas]

Thanks for posting this. I read this awhile back and found it pretty humorous. Creationists are desperate to find any credible voice whose words they can twist into fitting with their antiquated world view. The sad thing is that the people who get duped by the anti-evolution P.O.V. aren't going to read this, or any of the other articles that highlight the dishonesty of their leaders.

Once again you're implying that Creationists are closed-minded and won't look at another point of view. The same can be said for evolutionists like yourself.

[Hotpapa666]

Once again you're implying that Creationists are closed-minded and won't look at another point of view. The same can be said for evolutionists like yourself.

I'll go further, I'll come right out and saying it: There is no way that any person can look at the evidence on both sides of the arguement with intellectual integrity and come out on the anti-evolution side. It is simply impossible. Which leads to my second point. I am not close minded. I explored creationism, when I was younger and less informed I was a creationist. After years of studying many branches of biology I saw that anything other than evolution does a very poor job explaining the nature of biology, where as evolution does a great job. Further, I will not be close minded in the future as new mechanisms of evolution are brought to light.

[KinjaKahn]

“It was a dumb mistake, but nobody ever caught me on it.”
How comforting to know Science is on the ball.

[Vegas]

I'll go further, I'll come right out and saying it: There is no way that any person can look at the evidence on both sides of the arguement with intellectual integrity and come out on the anti-evolution side. It is simply impossible. Which leads to my second point. I am not close minded. I explored creationism, when I was younger and less informed I was a creationist. After years of studying many branches of biology I saw that anything other than evolution does a very poor job explaining the nature of biology, where as evolution does a great job. Further, I will not be close minded in the future as new mechanisms of evolution are brought to light.

Wow. So there's no way that anyone an look at both sides and be a Creationist, but you're not close minded. That's some impressive logic.

There are plenty of people who are much better educated technically than you are that draw a different conclusion. It's crystal clear that you have disdain for anyone who believes that way or who disagrees with you on a few other issues. You've made post after post implying that anyone who believes in the Bible is backwards, anyone who questions global warming is backwards.

But you're not close minded. OK.

[Roy Munson]

How comforting to know Science is on the ball.
Scientists... the science has always been the same.

[Hotpapa666]

Wow. So there's no way that anyone an look at both sides and be a Creationist, but you're not close minded. That's some impressive logic.

There are plenty of people who are much better educated technically than you are that draw a different conclusion. It's crystal clear that you have disdain for anyone who believes that way or who disagrees with you on a few other issues. You've made post after post implying that anyone who believes in the Bible is backwards, anyone who questions global warming is backwards.

But you're not close minded. OK.


You can make whatever assesments of the logic that you choose but please don't misrepresent my argument. My point is that one cannot be intellectually sincere and support a non-evolution based notion of biology given the mountains of data in support of evolution and nothing in support of the contrary positions. I'm sure there are people with long lists of letters after their names who have contorted their personal logic into knots that will allow them to represent themselves as creationists. That's fine, but they aren't being intellectually sincere; the moment that people start using the Bible as a reason to explain our biology, when the study of Biology does much the better job if it, they are being intellectually insincere. There is nothing close-minded about my POV, as I have said before, I have explored many aspects of this question, with a wide open mind and will continue to do so. I still leave open the possibility that Evolution may be completely off the mark and that some other process is at work, the current data don't show that to be the case but the possibility is open and so is my mind to it. So, please stop misusing that term to describe me.

As far as the last quarter of your post, I try not personalize arguments about ideas. I don't really think less of people who hold what are clearly malformed ideas like creationist, or diests. I don't, as you say, think they are backward, I think they hold some strange ideas. I think they aren't as critical in their thinking as they should be. And, I certainly would never consider someone who questions ideas like evolution or global climate change (the better term). In that regard, I do have some problems with arguements that people make, but those have to do mainly with the way people argue their points.


As I have said, I don't think you are stupid, and I'll add to that that I don't think you are backward. I am not out to get into a fight with you or anyone else. I have my POV and am free to express it, as you have yours and are equally free to express it. If I say something negative about "faith" it is a critism of the idea, not of your personal faith.

[Vegas]

You can make whatever assesments of the logic that you choose but please don't misrepresent my argument. My point is that one cannot be intellectually sincere and support a non-evolution based notion of biology given the mountains of data in support of evolution and nothing in support of the contrary positions. I'm sure there are people with long lists of letters after their names who have contorted their personal logic into knots that will allow them to represent themselves as creationists. That's fine, but they aren't being intellectually sincere; the moment that people start using the Bible as a reason to explain our biology, when the study of Biology does much the better job if it, they are being intellectually insincere. There is nothing close-minded about my POV, as I have said before, I have explored many aspects of this question, with a wide open mind and will continue to do so. I still leave open the possibility that Evolution may be completely off the mark and that some other process is at work, the current data don't show that to be the case but the possibility is open and so is my mind to it. So, please stop misusing that term to describe me.

As far as the last quarter of your post, I try not personalize arguments about ideas. I don't really think less of people who hold what are clearly malformed ideas like creationist, or diests. I don't, as you say, think they are backward, I think they hold some strange ideas. I think they aren't as critical in their thinking as they should be. And, I certainly would never consider someone who questions ideas like evolution or global climate change (the better term). In that regard, I do have some problems with arguements that people make, but those have to do mainly with the way people argue their points.


As I have said, I don't think you are stupid, and I'll add to that that I don't think you are backward. I am not out to get into a fight with you or anyone else. I have my POV and am free to express it, as you have yours and are equally free to express it. If I say something negative about "faith" it is a critism of the idea, not of your personal faith.

You crack me up. So now I'm either stupid or intellectually dishonest for believing in Creation and God. I'm really curious to know whether you say this stuff out of anger or ignorance.

[Roy Munson]

All I know is that if there is a God, he's really bad with money.

[IBC]

Lol.

[Jiddy78]

You crack me up. So now I'm either stupid or intellectually dishonest for believing in Creation and God. I'm really curious to know whether you say this stuff out of anger or ignorance.

He's saying that those who believe in creation are ignorant. Honestly, if we're wrong, I'd say we are, wouldn't you?

Furthermore, it is common knowledge that those that do not accept God will receive punishment for their ignorance as well...This was written by a man's hand and passed down by man, though...So if one doesn't believe in God, how can they be expected to make the distinction between man caring about his/her lack of faith or not? Not to mention more than enough that communication is bastardized because it's fairly simple to see the communicator is also revealing his true feelings of desire for that belief to be true (ie: Don't accept God...Go to Hell), which results in the "God will be judge" palabra to be somewhat of a copout.

Best route to go is not even go there on either side. Tact matters. But hey, I've seen it so many times on BOTH sides that I'm somewhat becoming immune to seeing it...but I'll be passing along to my child(ren) not to play that game, whatever they choose to believe. That'll make the world a tad bit better hopefully, if they listen to an old coot like me. ;)

[Hotpapa666]

You crack me up. So now I'm either stupid or intellectually dishonest for believing in Creation and God. I'm really curious to know whether you say this stuff out of anger or ignorance.

I know that you make comments like "you crack me up," in an attempt to get under my skin. It doesn't work, and it does nothing to deminish my arguement. Also, I am not making any assesments of you and, again, I have said twice before and now a third time, that I don't think you are stupid; no matter how hard you try and force them, those words will not go into my mouth. I find it strange that someone would work so hard to be called stupid.

I'm not sure what "stuff" you are refering to but I assure you that nothing that I type on this BB is out of anger, far more important things than a BB read by a dozen people fail to make me angry. And, rarely would I post in ignorance; why waste my time voicing an opinion on something that I don't know something about?

Anyway, have a great weekend.

[Bang]

My cats don't believe in creation. Nor do dogs. I wonder where monkeys might stand?

Its all about perspective when you judge others opinions.

[Roy Munson]

My cats don't believe in creation. Nor do dogs. I wonder where monkeys might stand?

Its all about perspective when you judge others opinions.
Thanks, Dr. Doolittle.

[Tom Joad]

Evolution

And I, I do not dare deny
the basic beast inside;
it's right here,
it's controlling my mind!
And why do I deserve to die?
I'm dominated by
this animal that's locked up inside!

Close up to get a real good view,
I'm betting that the species will survive.
Hold tight, I'm getting inside you...
(Evolution)

And when we're gonna find these bones,
they're gonna want to keep them in a jar.
The number one virus,
caused by procreation.

And the planet may go astray;
in a million years they'll say:
"Those mother fuckers were all deranged!"
It's evolution!
Just evolution!

And I, I do not dare deny
the basic beast inside;
it's right here,
it's controlling my mind!
And why do I deserve to die?
I'm dominated by
this animal that's locked up inside!

Take a look around... (take a look around...)
Nothing much has changed!
Take a look around... (take a look around...)
Nothing much has changed!
Take a look around!
Take a look around!
Take a look around!
Nothing much has changed!
Take a look around!
Take a look around!
Nothing much has changed!
Take a look around!
Take a look around!
Nothing much has changed!
Take a look around!

I, I do not dare deny
the basic beast inside;
it's right here,
it's controlling my mind!
And why do I deserve to die?
I'm dominated by
this animal that's locked up inside

Why? (why.) (why) (why)
Why do I deserve to die? (do i deserve to die)
(Why? Why? Why?)