Teacher suspended for derogatory remark about BYU

[Vegas]

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_5505323

MOSES LAKE, Wash. - A science teacher who has been suspended since January, apparently for a derogatory crack about Brigham Young University, was carried out of a Washington state high school after "initiating a riot," officials said.
Four school personnel carried Samson "Sam" Lyman out of the building by his arms and legs Wednesday after he burst through the cafeteria doors at Moses Lake High School and and began yelling that he had been treated unfairly, peppering his language with obscenities, principal Dave Balcom said.
Outside the building, Lyman was met by a police officer who escorted him off campus. Prosecutors will decide whether to charge him with trespassing and disorderly conduct, police Capt. James Jenkins said.
Lyman later returned to the public sidewalk outside the school and resumed a sign-carrying protest that began days earlier, complaining that district officials in this eastern Washington town never provided a written explanation for his suspension.
Balcom and Superintendent Steven Chestnut confirmed that Lyman was on paid leave. "Beyond that, it's a personnel matter and I really can't comment," Chestnut said.
In the local newspaper, the Columbia Basin Herald, Lyman said he was suspended Jan. 30 following student complaints.
They included a remark he made about Brigham Young University, a school he attended in Provo, Utah. It is operated by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
"I told a joke about BYU. I called them Breed 'em Young University," he said. "I acknowledge I said that. I didn't say it to be offensive to the Mormon faith ... I sure do (regret it). I've never been out to hurt anybody's feelings."
Lyman said 79 students were interviewed over a three-day period. The number of complaints grew from four to 24 and then was reduced to only a few.
"I think it's a form of religious discrimination against me as an ex-Mormon," he said. "I feel I've been tried and convicted in this community. I will never know who made these false comments."
Lyman said he still had plenty of student support.
"I've had 52 students today come up to me and tell me I'm the best science teacher they've ever had," he said.

[LSU]

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_5505323

MOSES LAKE, Wash. - A science teacher who has been suspended since January, apparently for a derogatory crack about Brigham Young University, was carried out of a Washington state high school after "initiating a riot," officials said.
Four school personnel carried Samson "Sam" Lyman out of the building by his arms and legs Wednesday after he burst through the cafeteria doors at Moses Lake High School and and began yelling that he had been treated unfairly, peppering his language with obscenities, principal Dave Balcom said.
Outside the building, Lyman was met by a police officer who escorted him off campus. Prosecutors will decide whether to charge him with trespassing and disorderly conduct, police Capt. James Jenkins said.
Lyman later returned to the public sidewalk outside the school and resumed a sign-carrying protest that began days earlier, complaining that district officials in this eastern Washington town never provided a written explanation for his suspension.
Balcom and Superintendent Steven Chestnut confirmed that Lyman was on paid leave. "Beyond that, it's a personnel matter and I really can't comment," Chestnut said.
In the local newspaper, the Columbia Basin Herald, Lyman said he was suspended Jan. 30 following student complaints.
They included a remark he made about Brigham Young University, a school he attended in Provo, Utah. It is operated by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
"I told a joke about BYU. I called them Breed 'em Young University," he said. "I acknowledge I said that. I didn't say it to be offensive to the Mormon faith ... I sure do (regret it). I've never been out to hurt anybody's feelings."
Lyman said 79 students were interviewed over a three-day period. The number of complaints grew from four to 24 and then was reduced to only a few.
"I think it's a form of religious discrimination against me as an ex-Mormon," he said. "I feel I've been tried and convicted in this community. I will never know who made these false comments."
Lyman said he still had plenty of student support.
"I've had 52 students today come up to me and tell me I'm the best science teacher they've ever had," he said.



Wow, that's quite an endorsement by the students. High schoolers probably have had 3 to 4 science teachers in their life...for him to be the best? He must be stellar.


Tool.

[Vegas]

Wow, that's quite an endorsement by the students. High schoolers probably have had 3 to 4 science teachers in their life...for him to be the best? He must be stellar.


Tool.

There's far too many science and math teachers in this country that are simply incompetent and a large percentage of them are only "teaching" so that they have the ability to be asst. coaches in high school football.

[LSU]

There's far too many science and math teachers in this country that are simply incompetent and a large percentage of them are only "teaching" so that they have the ability to be asst. coaches in high school football.


When I was in HS, those coaches taught study hall. Most struggled.


My trig teacher was the baseball coach. He was actually pretty good.


Of course, when people with science and math degrees can make probably 30-50% more money going somewhere else, well...what do you expect them to do?

[Vegas]

When I was in HS, those coaches taught study hall. Most struggled.


My trig teacher was the baseball coach. He was actually pretty good.


Of course, when people with science and math degrees can make probably 30-50% more money going somewhere else, well...what do you expect them to do?

Teacher salaries vary greatly depending on geography, but in general teachers do pretty well considering the number of hours worked and the fact that it's usually 8 months a year.

[LSU]

Teacher salaries vary greatly depending on geography, but in general teachers do pretty well considering the number of hours worked and the fact that it's usually 8 months a year.



Mother in law's a teacher. She'd ring your neck.

I think teachers here make around 30k. Tops.

I know the MIL would sometimes be at school until 7 pm frequently getting things done. Not just here and there. Wife used to bitch at her about it, but...


Oh, and I don't know where you're getting 8 months from. Maybe in NEV, but anywhere I've gone, we started at the end of August and went through the beginning of June. And that was well over a decade ago since I was in public schools. With all the cool NCLB stuff that got enacted, my guess is that school days have been extended.

[Vegas]

Mother in law's a teacher. She'd ring your neck.

I think teachers here make around 30k. Tops.

I know the MIL would sometimes be at school until 7 pm frequently getting things done. Not just here and there. Wife used to bitch at her about it, but...


Oh, and I don't know where you're getting 8 months from. Maybe in NEV, but anywhere I've gone, we started at the end of August and went through the beginning of June. And that was well over a decade ago since I was in public schools. With all the cool NCLB stuff that got enacted, my guess is that school days have been extended.

I'm mostly going by teachers that I know in California. A good friend teaches junior high math at $85k a year and indeed only works 8 months and short days. In the engineering gig, companies typically require 45-60 hours a week (or even more) and most don't make $85k. They also don't get the sweet pension deals and summers off. But like I said, it varies greatly with geography. Nevada teachers don't have it as good, but it's definitely not bad.

[LSU]

I'm mostly going by teachers that I know in California. A good friend teaches junior high math at $85k a year and indeed only works 8 months and short days. In the engineering gig, companies typically require 45-60 hours a week (or even more) and most don't make $85k. They also don't get the sweet pension deals and summers off. But like I said, it varies greatly with geography. Nevada teachers don't have it as good, but it's definitely not bad.


Gotta look at cost of living in CA. Is 85k really that much? I'm assuming you're talking LA area. 85k doesn't go far when a 3 br 1 bath is 500k.

But again, that's just assumption. If it's 85k in a moderate cost of living, I'm applying for a teaching job in CA tomorrow.

[Vegas]

Gotta look at cost of living in CA. Is 85k really that much? I'm assuming you're talking LA area. 85k doesn't go far when a 3 br 1 bath is 500k.

But again, that's just assumption. If it's 85k in a moderate cost of living, I'm applying for a teaching job in CA tomorrow.

It's all about timing. The teacher I'm talking about lives in a house that's around $550k. But there's a huge caveat in that she's lived in that house for around 25 years and she bought it for $75k. In her case, she's doing OK.

But the overall cost of living is high in LA, no doubt. There are millions and millions of people there that get by on way less than $85k a year.

[LSU]

It's all about timing. The teacher I'm talking about lives in a house that's around $550k. But there's a huge caveat in that she's lived in that house for around 25 years and she bought it for $75k. In her case, she's doing OK.

But the overall cost of living is high in LA, no doubt. There are millions and millions of people there that get by on way less than $85k a year.



"Getting by" is not what I (or anyone else I would imagine) wants to do.

[Vegas]

"Getting by" is not what I (or anyone else I would imagine) wants to do.

Probably a poor choice of words on that. If those millions and millions were just getting by, they'd probably move.

[LSU]

Probably a poor choice of words on that. If those millions and millions were just getting by, they'd probably move.



If they're just getting by, they may not be able to afford to move.


Or, in the case of many that stuck around in Katrina, it's their home, and it's all they know.

[Iron Jaw]

When I was in HS, those coaches taught study hall. Most struggled.


My trig teacher was the baseball coach. He was actually pretty good.


Of course, when people with science and math degrees can make probably 30-50% more money going somewhere else, well...what do you expect them to do?

My head football coach from 10th-12th grade was the lead Phys-Ed teacher, though his assistants were varied from all departments, including one from the biology department.

As a freshman, my head coach was a math teacher. In junior high it was a math and history teacher.

My high school wrestling coach as a freshman was an English teacher. From 10th-12th grade it was the metal/electronics shop teacher. His assistant taught Geology and Math.

My high school baseball coach was a science teacher. His assistant was......a male Home Economics teacher (not kidding).

As a college athlete (two-sports at the D-II level), my football coach was of course, in the Phys-Ed department, as were all of his assistants except one who was in the Art department (now that, was unusual - he coached the DBs).

My wrestling coaches were all in the PE Department. I think, in college, the head coaches are generally in the PE field though an assistant, or a non-traditional sport coach (we had a ski team in HS and college - I attended college in Colorado) may well be from another area.

Anyway, on the subject, despite his opinions about the Latter Day Saints, he needs to control them. It seems, in recent years, it's not cool for a teacher to give an opinionated comment about his disagreements with the Islamics - or other religious groups - but some systems love to dis anyone associated with Christianity and the various denominations (particularly groups like the Mormons).

What bothers me is the attitude he displayed when being carted out. Why the riot-inciting attitude. He should have gone peacefully and explained his initial intent, given his apology and promised to be a good boy.

[MTVike]

Mother in law's a teacher. She'd ring your neck.

I think teachers here make around 30k. Tops.

I know the MIL would sometimes be at school until 7 pm frequently getting things done. Not just here and there. Wife used to bitch at her about it, but...


Oh, and I don't know where you're getting 8 months from. Maybe in NEV, but anywhere I've gone, we started at the end of August and went through the beginning of June. And that was well over a decade ago since I was in public schools. With all the cool NCLB stuff that got enacted, my guess is that school days have been extended.

30K? Maybe in podunk county, but I'm sure veteran teachers make more in urban centers, including red stick.

NCLB didn't cause schools to increase total school days, but it did cause schools to increase instructional time, especially for lower functioning students. Two to three recess periods a day are a thing of the past.

I get about 11 weeks off in the summer, and another 2 weeks or so total during the school year. Work about 165 days.

But I always supplement my income in the summer. My wife works only part-time and I couldn't stand to sit around all the time anyway.

[LSU]

30K? Maybe in podunk county, but I'm sure veteran teachers make more in urban centers, including red stick.

NCLB didn't cause schools to increase total school days, but it did cause schools to increase instructional time, especially for lower functioning students. Two to three recess periods a day are a thing of the past.

I get about 11 weeks off in the summer, and another 2 weeks or so total during the school year. Work about 165 days.

But I always supplement my income in the summer. My wife works only part-time and I couldn't stand to sit around all the time anyway.


If you can find data that I'm wrong, I'd like to see it.

And we don't have counties here. Duh.

[Nixon's Head]

Silly Mormons.

[MTVike]

If you can find data that I'm wrong, I'd like to see it.

And we don't have counties here. Duh.


The AVERAGE (not "tops") teacher salary in the state of Lousianna was $39,000 plus in 2004.

http://www.nea.org/edstats/RankFull06b.htm

OK, parishes.

[LSU]

The AVERAGE (not "tops") teacher salary in the state of Lousianna was $39,000 plus in 2004.

http://www.nea.org/edstats/RankFull06b.htm

OK, parishes.


Fantastic. Good job. My mistake.


Quite low relative to other states.

[MTVike]

Fantastic. Good job. My mistake.


Quite low relative to other states.

Yes. Montana is right there, too.

You wanna be a teacher now? :)

[LSU]

Yes. Montana is right there, too.

You wanna be a teacher now? :)



Not in MT or LA. Although, it's all relative to where I live. I can afford to get a lower paying job if I stayed here because wife has a fanstastic job...but if we move, there's potential that where I had a job, she wouldn't, so I would obviously need to make more.

[MTVike]

Not in MT or LA. Although, it's all relative to where I live. I can afford to get a lower paying job if I stayed here because wife has a fanstastic job...but if we move, there's potential that where I had a job, she wouldn't, so I would obviously need to make more.

I'm sure you would do alright as a professor someplace, say LSU?

Profs often make considerably more than "school teachers" and have many of the same type benefits.

[LSU]

I'm sure you would do alright as a professor someplace, say LSU?

Profs often make considerably more than "school teachers" and have many of the same type benefits.



Perhaps, but there are a multitude of things working against me. First is many profs these days need post doc work. Second, some universities (some depts here included) don't like to hire in house graduates. Third, my research is usually not fundable by the big guys...NIH, NSF, etc...we're talking million dollar grants here...my funding sources (USDA would be the best) typically are only handing out maybe up to 500k or 3 or 5 years...the U is trying to build their rep for research, and to do so, you need mountains of money coming in...I wouldn't have that sort of draw.

[IBC]

You know, i listened to limbaugh yesterday. My ears did bleed a bit, but that is ok. I didn't hate some of what he said, but one thing in particular bothered me. He criticized those of us that work in non-profits. He said we rely on the poor saps that will actually give us money, and do it because we can't do anything else. It really pissed me off. To think that everyone is motivated by money is ignorant. I could take mediation cases at 125/hr if I wanted. Instead I choose to work at a nonprofit for much less. Why? Not because i want to rely on poor saps that believe in my work, but rather because I truly value to work that I do and think that everyone should benefit from it. I also love the people that I work with as they tend to share the same ideals as me, It makes for a seamless transition between my personal life and my professional life. ie I feel good about myself and what I do every day when I get home. I work with kids and adults.

[hannitykillspuppies]

Teacher salaries vary greatly depending on geography, but in general teachers do pretty well considering the number of hours worked and the fact that it's usually 8 months a year.

you cannot be serious?

[Tom Joad]

There's far too many science and math teachers in this country that are simply incompetent and a large percentage of them are only "teaching" so that they have the ability to be asst. coaches in high school football.

Most football coaches I know teach (in order from most to least):
1) PE
2) Driver's Ed
3) Industrial Technology
4) In-School Suspension Monitor
5) Social Studies