GM-UAW reach agreement, strike over.

[Cat in the Hat]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20978036/

The fine details haven't been revealed as of yet as well as the fact that the deal still needs to be ratified by the union members. However, I'm glad this was a short strike. I personally wish it would have been more in favor of GM. The days of Samuel Gompers are gone. Companies don't treat their employees like robots or slaves the way they used to. There is much less of a need for unions in todays day and age. There are organizations like OSHA that look out for the health and welfare of all folks who work.

The biggest issues I saw from this whole issue was job security and better health care and benefits. What the hell?! Autoworkers in the big three don't have any idea how good they have it. They pay very little if anything for their health care and make damn respectable wages. They want more for their retirees in the way of health care benefits. After reading a quote in my local newspaper yesterday, I don't feel the a lot of these folks deserve the extra benefits they seek. In that article a lady who's been with the Janesville plant for seven years and her husband for twenty years said she hated that it had to come to this. The union only pays two hundred a week during a strike and she and her husband have a mortgage, two car notes, and a lot of "freaking bills." The way it sounds is she and her hubby are habitual over-spenders and won't be able to retire if they don't get decent retirement bennies from GM. If this lady admits indirectly that she and her hubby are absolute financial dumbasses, how many more throughout the GM umbrella are the same way? These folks aren't smart enough to plan for their retirement when they have some of the most stable jobs on the planet and they want better retirement bennies not only for themselves, but for all the other dumbasses who have already retired and don't have enough money for health care due to the same stupid handling of their money? I'm sorry to sound like such an asshole over this, but when folks who have had a job for as long as they have wanted one where others haven't had that luxury, they have no right to ask for anything like that, IMO.

I know it's not nearly this simple or even clean sounding, but if I were Bob Lutz (he's still the head of GM, correct?), I would be issuing a company-wide memo with the aid of my legal department announcing the busting of the union. I would tell the employees they are welcome to come back to work for 10% less pay, the same benefits they have now (including retention of seniority and current vacation earned). Retirees will get the same benefits they've been getting. If further retirement benefits are needed, they will be issued in the interim as a loan. If the request for extra benefits is deemed warranted the loan will be forgiven entirely. If not, the loan will stand as is with a zero percent repayment rate. This last statement is in response to the fact that GM admitted to having an excess in this already existing fund for retirement benefits.

I could go on and on about this subject, but will cut it off here. I've been on both sides of unions and understand the benefit it provides to those who truly want to work and do well for the company. However, I've also seen the benefit it provides to those who simply don't give a shit and are there just for the paycheck and don't put in an effort at all.

[Jiddy78]

Unhappy employees...GM is sh*t...Vegas might be onto something.

[IBC]

http://www.whitehouse.org/initiatives/posters/images/dockmonkeys.jpg

[IBC]

http://www.whitehouse.org/initiatives/posters/images/dockmonkeys.jpg

Just a joke BTW. :D

[Ed Who?]

Just a joke BTW. :D

And you complain about me using strawman arguments...

[IBC]

And you complain about me using strawman arguments...

Uh-huh. It was a joke Ed. That is why I said. Just a joke.

[Cat in the Hat]

Just a joke BTW. :D

I see the joke for sure. Like I said before, I've been on both sides of unions and I can honestly say there aren't too many reasons to have unions around anymore. The Industrial Revolution is long past and workers' rights have been brought up to speed years ago. Incidents like the textile/Stitchery shop in NYC in the 1800s that had a fire and many women on the third floor of the factory either burnt or jumped to their deaths because there wasn't adequate means for exit and the exits that were available were locked by the supervisors to prevent the women from walking off the job, are long gone.

I see a lot of lazy incompetent folks using unions for job security, because they know it's damn hard to fire a person in a union without solid proof. Saying production numbers being down doesn't often cut it considering there are occupational aids and tools to help employees or the fact that physical ability ranges from person to person. That being said, these folks show up to work everyday, within a few minutes of being late or being a little early and proceed to screw the pooch the majority of the day, getting just enough done to seem slightly productive. These folks also, make it a point of getting all buddy, buddy with the union stewards in their area. That's another layer of protection they can get. What burns me most about these people, is they work harder at getting out of work than they do just doing an average job at the work they've been given to do.

Also, aside from direct job security in the fashion of standing up for its members if there is discipline or things of that nature present, what does the union really do? Sure it gives out a much reduced wage during a strike and gives folks a feeling of solidarity, but what else? How many unions offer services to their members for things like financial planning and responsibility? How many unions set up clubs or special interest groups for it's members. How many unions will offer channels to members to seek training in trades or other areas of interest to help improve that member's life? Now granted, some of that stuff might be available in some unions and I just don't know about it, but it seems unions want to hold you back as a member. Stick around, we need your dues and vote so we can be strong and make sure "The Man" doesn't take anything away from us or hide anything from us so we can get our share.

[IBC]

I see the joke for sure. Like I said before, I've been on both sides of unions and I can honestly say there aren't too many reasons to have unions around anymore. The Industrial Revolution is long past and workers' rights have been brought up to speed years ago. Incidents like the textile/Stitchery shop in NYC in the 1800s that had a fire and many women on the third floor of the factory either burnt or jumped to their deaths because there wasn't adequate means for exit and the exits that were available were locked by the supervisors to prevent the women from walking off the job, are long gone.

I see a lot of lazy incompetent folks using unions for job security, because they know it's damn hard to fire a person in a union without solid proof. Saying production numbers being down doesn't often cut it considering there are occupational aids and tools to help employees or the fact that physical ability ranges from person to person. That being said, these folks show up to work everyday, within a few minutes of being late or being a little early and proceed to screw the pooch the majority of the day, getting just enough done to seem slightly productive. These folks also, make it a point of getting all buddy, buddy with the union stewards in their area. That's another layer of protection they can get. What burns me most about these people, is they work harder at getting out of work than they do just doing an average job at the work they've been given to do.

Also, aside from direct job security in the fashion of standing up for its members if there is discipline or things of that nature present, what does the union really do? Sure it gives out a much reduced wage during a strike and gives folks a feeling of solidarity, but what else? How many unions offer services to their members for things like financial planning and responsibility? How many unions set up clubs or special interest groups for it's members. How many unions will offer channels to members to seek training in trades or other areas of interest to help improve that member's life? Now granted, some of that stuff might be available in some unions and I just don't know about it, but it seems unions want to hold you back as a member. Stick around, we need your dues and vote so we can be strong and make sure "The Man" doesn't take anything away from us or hide anything from us so we can get our share.

As long as Walmart exists.....


Locking workers in overnight, no healthcare benefits because of shady hours, etc.

[Jiddy78]

I see the joke for sure. Like I said before, I've been on both sides of unions and I can honestly say there aren't too many reasons to have unions around anymore. The Industrial Revolution is long past and workers' rights have been brought up to speed years ago. Incidents like the textile/Stitchery shop in NYC in the 1800s that had a fire and many women on the third floor of the factory either burnt or jumped to their deaths because there wasn't adequate means for exit and the exits that were available were locked by the supervisors to prevent the women from walking off the job, are long gone.

I see a lot of lazy incompetent folks using unions for job security, because they know it's damn hard to fire a person in a union without solid proof. Saying production numbers being down doesn't often cut it considering there are occupational aids and tools to help employees or the fact that physical ability ranges from person to person. That being said, these folks show up to work everyday, within a few minutes of being late or being a little early and proceed to screw the pooch the majority of the day, getting just enough done to seem slightly productive. These folks also, make it a point of getting all buddy, buddy with the union stewards in their area. That's another layer of protection they can get. What burns me most about these people, is they work harder at getting out of work than they do just doing an average job at the work they've been given to do.

Also, aside from direct job security in the fashion of standing up for its members if there is discipline or things of that nature present, what does the union really do? Sure it gives out a much reduced wage during a strike and gives folks a feeling of solidarity, but what else? How many unions offer services to their members for things like financial planning and responsibility? How many unions set up clubs or special interest groups for it's members. How many unions will offer channels to members to seek training in trades or other areas of interest to help improve that member's life? Now granted, some of that stuff might be available in some unions and I just don't know about it, but it seems unions want to hold you back as a member. Stick around, we need your dues and vote so we can be strong and make sure "The Man" doesn't take anything away from us or hide anything from us so we can get our share.

Hmph...My service in a union workplace was hardly a picnic...I worked my ass off...as did every union member that worked beside me. My old man was union too...and I know he worked his ass off, because I went with him sometimes in my teens and saw it with my own two eyes and did it with my own hands and back. I noticed is some asshole wasn't doing his part, usually it was his peers, not his bosses, that let him know it. Maybe times have changed, but my old man and those guys I worked with have only the strongest of strong feeling for the union and my personal experience of union workers is only good.

[swordfish]

The brotherhood that unions provide is very beneficial. The main problem is that it creates division with the non union workers. Union guys feel obligated to make fun of or hurt the business of "rat" shops. There are some jobs where it would be hard to mobilize a large workforce (power plant, refinery outages) without the union workforce. On the other hand, as previous people have pointed out, there is really no need for the union control. Some unions charge upwards of 10% dues. What exactly does that dues money provide to say an UAW worker. UAW members do not have to travel like most non-factory union workers. They work in a factory in one spot. It is not like their job is really at risk. New model year vehicles are always being developed and built. It is not like the construction industry where your next job might be 200 miles from home. Pass up the job and your "taught a lesson". UAW workers have lost touch with the real America. How lucky can you be to make $30 an hour with benefits to put a few bolts in an axle?

We have a Toyota Aisin plant in my hometown. I know many people who are happily employed there. They have no union representation. They have their own benefits and make a good wage. It seems to be one reason that Toyota and Honda have been cleaning up lately. The company spends the money the way they see fit and if the workers like it they are productive. This is compared to workers that always feel like they deserve more and deserve to do less. The only way to motivate people is to make them understand that you don't deserve something for nothing.

Unless you own a business the Union Business Agent has your nuts in his hand. Depending on your relationship with the union bosses you might be unemployed for a few months. By relationship I mean doing what they say. The union loves yes men and punishes anyone who questions them. They use the same tactics as the government. Spread rumors, use people in power to persuade the population, have someone loyal call a vote or make a motion, then shoot down any dissenters. Do you blame the local bosses or are they in the same position with the International Unions. What if the local bosses are being pushed as much as we are. They also fear their jobs. Anyone on here should know that an election can be easily swayed by the media. That is all the local union needs is for International to run a letter in the journal about misconduct of some type.

I feel that overall the unions have done a great deal for the American workforce. I would like to see less control by the union and less laziness by the workers. Things are shaping up in many unions and it seems to me it is a step in the right direction. Time will tell.

[Cat in the Hat]

Hmph...My service in a union workplace was hardly a picnic...I worked my ass off...as did every union member that worked beside me. My old man was union too...and I know he worked his ass off, because I went with him sometimes in my teens and saw it with my own two eyes and did it with my own hands and back. I noticed is some asshole wasn't doing his part, usually it was his peers, not his bosses, that let him know it. Maybe times have changed, but my old man and those guys I worked with have only the strongest of strong feeling for the union and my personal experience of union workers is only good.

I've seen as well with my own two eyes how some union shops work. I think it depends upon the company and the philosophy upper management decides to share with everyone. The company I worked for under the union had a number of slackers and the rest of the folks didn't like them a whole lot, but didn't say as much, because they liked upper management a whole lot less. Since I left that company, the upper management at that place has since changed and was merged with Thermo Electron Corporation.

I gotta get going now, but I'll share more later.

[Cat in the Hat]

Another thing I think has been somewhat misconstrued in my posts (probably, because I spend more time on the negative) is that I don't think all union workers are bad. I know many folks who are part of unions and have been part of unions. These folks are damn fine people and one is my best friend. His personal feeling is the union where he works is a joke and it really doesn't do much for the employees. I've seen a lot of hard working individuals who take pride in what they do. It may not be glamorous, but they're proud to help sustain, "Made in the U.S.A."

That being said, I still would like to see some of these unions, especially groups like the UAW, AFL-CIO, and others start up some programs to help some of these folks better themselves in some fashion. One big thing would be, financial responsibility. Show these folks how to start living well. Show them they can have toys and whatnot and not have to live from check to check. I see a lot of folks who started working in factories from the day they graduated high school. Sure, they're married, have a house, have a kid or two, a couple nice vehicles, a boat or some ATVs, and maybe even a cabin or camping property out in the country somewhere.

That's all fine and dandy, but to afford it, they have a note on each car, a variable rate mortgage on each property and credit card debt up the ass for the rest of their toys. Perhaps a few of them have been smart enough to get some sort of a home equity loan to get rid of the credit cards, but they still have high rates. These folks aren't able to put anything away after they pay the bills, the utilities, taxes (if they have them), and finally put food on the table. Maybe they have fifty or sixty bucks. Sure, most of them are putting away in a 401K, but not as much as some might think.

To me for unions to be worth it anymore, there needs to be more action by the unions to ensure the welfare of them employees aside from collecting dues and holding heavily politically motivated meetings with hidden agendas. The unions need to offer some sort of support programs for its members. It needs to give back rather than take from its members. Sure a union gives to its members by offering support when a grievance is filed or possible termination is imminent. Unions are supposed to help you find work if you've been laid-off or fired, do they actually do that? That's becoming harder and harder to do with the manufacturing sector in the US dwindling further every year. When a union facility is laying off, the rest of the businesses in the area won't necessarily be able to absorb those looking for work.

In another post I'll share the story of Mirro (an aluminum cookware and bakeware manufacturer) to the best of my recollection from my family's perspective. A story fueled by the greed of the union.

[Cat in the Hat]

As I said, I will share the story behind Mirro. Perhaps many of you have heard of Mirro or WearEver Aluminum cookware and bakeware, AirBake was a popular line under the WearEver brand. A quick history lesson: The company was started in started as two separate companies in Manitowoc and Two Rivers, WI by Joseph Koenig and and Henry Vits. In 1909 the two Aluminum products companies merged and centralized in Manitowoc under the heading of Mr. Vitz and became known as the Aluminum Goods Manufacturing Company. Some of you might remember the aluminum Christmas trees they made. In 1957 the company was renamed Mirro Aluminum Company for it's popularly named line of products. One of it's most popular and successful items was the Mirro-matic pressure cooker. Useless trivia for the day, my grandfather, Charles Ziemer who at the time was a salesman for the company sold Colonel Sanders the pressure cookers for his first Kentucky Fried Chicken location, which helped launch an American icon in popular quisine. My grandfather a few years later took presidency of the company taking it to new heights and was the one who successfully added the company's aluminum rolling mill allowing the company to be self-sufficient for it's own aluminum needs as well as that of other aluminum manufacturers. This greatly increased the company's volume, capabilities, and profits. In 1983 the home furnishings giant and conglomerate, Newell bought Mirro after the company had been experiencing a number of down years. At this time my mother lost her job with the company and my father would be moved to another plant within the company shortly there after. I can still remember the day my folks picked me up from day care and my mom had red tear-filled eyes telling me that mommy lost her job. I was five years old. Just three years later, two other local cooking utensil manufacturers Foley and Lapcor were merged into Mirro. In 1991, the WearEver brand was purchased by Newell and merged with Mirro, with headquarters continuing in Manitowoc In 2001 due to stiff market competition and union greed, much of the operations in Manitowoc were shipped to locations overseas (China). In 2003 all operations ceased to endure in Manitowoc. In that same year, a group of ex-Mirro employees then bought the aluminum rolling mill from NewellRubbermaid (the resulting name of the company after Newell successfully purchased the home consumer products giant) and formed the company known as Koenig and Vits, which still operates today. Only one year later after everything was moved out of Manitowoc, the brands of Mirro and WearEver were sold by NewellRubbermaid to a holding company called the SEB Group, who also owns the brand T-Fal.

In 2001 and ultimately in 2003 my father lost his job after 34 years of service.

The reason I said union greed played a huge part in the downfall of the operations in Manitowoc, is the union was not willing in the least to give an concessions to Mirro and NewellRubbermaid. Workers and the union were unwilling to take pay cuts, etc. to keep their jobs. Of course part of this was a bit of a stand against Wal-Mart. At the time, Wal-Mart was Mirro's single largest customer. As everyone knows, Wal-Mart's aim is to continuously lower prices for its customers and receive its products for sale at a lower price. This is part of what was sending hundreds of companies over to China and Eastern Asia. Who can compete with 50 cents and a bowl of rice a day to some Chinese or Taiwanese person? At the time the Wal-Mart location in Manitowoc was built and opened to the public there was sixty feet of display space devoted to Mirro/WearEver products. When NewellRubbermaid closed the doors of Mirro in Manitowoc forever and over 900 employees lost their jobs, there was less than five feet of display space devoted to Mirro/WearEver products.

As I partially blame Wal-Mart for this, I ultimately blame the union and the company for not making moves to keep the business in Manitowoc and keep people employed.