Lewis Black on Creation

[LSU]

You may or may not enjoy this. I did, so I share.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8332033887251016121

[Hotpapa666]

You may or may not enjoy this. I did, so I share.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8332033887251016121

Please link this on the lastest thread about stem cells research.

[Tom Joad]

Lewis Black is one of my very favorite comedians, he's friggin' hilarious.

[KinjaKahn]

Please link this on the lastest thread about stem cells research.
It wont help your case... embryo's do not have to be frozen to be used.

[KinjaKahn]

The last Jewish guy I spoke to told me Jesus was Hitler.

[LSU]

It wont help your case... embryo's do not have to be frozen to be used.



That's one thing I've always questioned. Can a human be frozen, then thawed, and survive?

[KinjaKahn]

That's one thing I've always questioned. Can a human be frozen, then thawed, and survive?
When you take the DNA of a panda bear embryo, a chimpanzee embryo and a human embryo, remove all labeling essentially making them unknown to the scientists you offer them to... can scientists tell which is human?

Better yet, once genetic engineering is well into applications, would you have a problem engineering a virus that persistently, and guaranteed kills all zygotes in all women and spread it to every woman alive? Since they aren't people there should be no problem? Right?

[IBC]

When you take the DNA of a panda bear embryo, a chimpanzee embryo and a human embryo, remove all labeling essentially making them unknown to the scientists you offer them to... can scientists tell which is human?

Better yet, once genetic engineering is well into applications, would you have a problem engineering a virus that persistently, and guaranteed kills all zygotes in all women and spread it to every woman alive? Since they aren't people there should be no problem? Right?
I don't see the logic in that argument.

[KinjaKahn]

I don't see the logic in that argument.
Just some simple questions. Cant wait for some simple answers.

[KinjaKahn]

That's one thing I've always questioned. Can a human be frozen, then thawed, and survive?
Nothing we have done is even remotely promising to risk freezing and reviving a living human being.

[IBC]

Just some simple questions. Cant wait for some simple answers.

Why don't we have a discussion instead? Why don't you factually lay out your case? A common tactic in debate is to frame the debate be making your questions "the" questions.

[Hotpapa666]

When you take the DNA of a panda bear embryo, a chimpanzee embryo and a human embryo, remove all labeling essentially making them unknown to the scientists you offer them to... can scientists tell which is human?

Better yet, once genetic engineering is well into applications, would you have a problem engineering a virus that persistently, and guaranteed kills all zygotes in all women and spread it to every woman alive? Since they aren't people there should be no problem? Right?

Ist, if you were to remove "all labelling" you would basicially have a lipid bilayer, that's how good humanity has become in identifying itself as well as the cells of other species.

Your whole second paragraph is utter non-sense.

[KinjaKahn]

Ist, if you were to remove "all labelling" you would basicially have a lipid bilayer, that's how good humanity has become in identifying itself as well as the cells of other species.
Labeling meaning something that identifies the contents of the container.

Your whole second paragraph is utter non-sense.
Run papa run!

[Hotpapa666]

Labeling meaning something that identifies the contents of the container.


Run papa run!

Yes, I know what labeling is. I worked in microbiology for 5 years and worked in a primate facility for 6 years before that. I certainly know how to label vials. I also know that, given the level of microbiology's ability to indentify compounds, if you took away everything that labeled a cell as human you wouldn't have much left but a lipid bi-layer.

[KinjaKahn]

Yes, I know what labeling is. I worked in microbiology for 5 years and worked in a primate facility for 6 years before that. I certainly know how to label vials. I also know that, given the level of microbiology's ability to indentify compounds, if you took away everything that labeled a cell as human you wouldn't have much left but a lipid bi-layer.
Good this that wasn't what I wrote.

[KinjaKahn]

Good this that wasn't what I wrote.
Do you understand jibberish? If not I'll translate... "Its good that this wasn't what I wrote."

[Hotpapa666]

Do you understand jibberish? If not I'll translate... "Its good that this wasn't what I wrote."

Well, my earlier responses were predicated on my thinking that you meant celluar labels. I'm not sure where a discussion of tube labeling can lead.

[KinjaKahn]

Well, my earlier responses were predicated on my thinking that you meant celluar labels. I'm not sure where a discussion of tube labeling can lead.
You still avoided the question.

When you take the DNA of a panda bear embryo, a chimpanzee embryo and a human embryo, remove all labeling essentially making them unknown to the scientists you offer them to... can scientists tell which is human?

[Hotpapa666]

You still avoided the question.

I'm not avoiding the question. It's a retorical question. Of course it is possible to tell the difference between the DNA of different speices.

[LSU]

When you take the DNA of a panda bear embryo, a chimpanzee embryo and a human embryo, remove all labeling essentially making them unknown to the scientists you offer them to... can scientists tell which is human?

Better yet, once genetic engineering is well into applications, would you have a problem engineering a virus that persistently, and guaranteed kills all zygotes in all women and spread it to every woman alive? Since they aren't people there should be no problem? Right?



Yes, a scientist, given the proper tools, should be able to tell the difference between panda, chimp, and human DNA. Assuming all three of those genomes are sequenced, said scientist would also be able to tell which genome is which, not just that they're different. Without a reference, just differences would be seen.

The virus you describe is highly unethical and likely would not get funding. Too much risk of it getting loose and infecting women that do not want an abortion.

I don't know any person that wants to kill every zygote in existence, and to even suggest there are people out there that would is preposterous.

[LSU]

Nothing we have done is even remotely promising to risk freezing and reviving a living human being.


Oh, OK.

Because cells used for emb. stem cell research are frozen and thawed often. In fact, most cells used for any cell culture are stored frozen. They grow quite well in most instances once thawed and cultured in appropriate media...assuming, of course, there has no contaminants.

So, you can freeze blastulas, zygotes, embryos, whatever you want to call them, but you can't freeze a human.

[LSU]

The last Jewish guy I spoke to told me Jesus was Hitler.



Ironic, considering he was a Jew.

[LSU]

When you take the DNA of a panda bear embryo, a chimpanzee embryo and a human embryo, remove all labeling essentially making them unknown to the scientists you offer them to... can scientists tell which is human?


Now, I read this twice, and understood it 2 ways. I've answered the one interpretation. The second interpretation would be answering if you took DNA from an embryo, and remove any physical labels (decals) on the embryos, can the embryos be told apart in the absence of DNA or a physical label.

Yes. In a few ways.

[KinjaKahn]

The virus you describe is highly unethical and likely would not get funding. Too much risk of it getting loose and infecting women that do not want an abortion.

I don't know any person that wants to kill every zygote in existence, and to even suggest there are people out there that would is preposterous.

It was facetious.

[Hotpapa666]

Oh, OK.

Because cells used for emb. stem cell research are frozen and thawed often. In fact, most cells used for any cell culture are stored frozen. They grow quite well in most instances once thawed and cultured in appropriate media...assuming, of course, there has no contaminants.

So, you can freeze blastulas, zygotes, embryos, whatever you want to call them, but you can't freeze a human.

You ever do cell-culture? There was a guy in my lab who did and he always bitched about it. Of course, scientists bitch a lot...

[KinjaKahn]

Oh, OK.

Because cells used for emb. stem cell research are frozen and thawed often. In fact, most cells used for any cell culture are stored frozen. They grow quite well in most instances once thawed and cultured in appropriate media...assuming, of course, there has no contaminants.

So, you can freeze blastulas, zygotes, embryos, whatever you want to call them, but you can't freeze a human.
Sorry for not being clear. I meant someone such as you. An Adult.

[LSU]

It was facetious.


OK.

[LSU]

You ever do cell-culture? There was a guy in my lab who did and he always bitched about it. Of course, scientists bitch a lot...

Yes. Often. Not stem cells, but epithelial and macrophage. It's not so bad.

[Hotpapa666]

Yes. Often. Not stem cells, but epithelial and macrophage. It's not so bad.

It never looked that bad. He would be in his nice hood working on his cell-culture and I would have to deal with injecting fucking zebra fish. I didn't see much cause for him to bitch...

[LSU]

Sorry for not being clear. I meant someone such as you. An Adult.



As far as I know, no adult has ever been frozen, then thawed and had any physiological activity.

I wouldn't want to be the first one to try it, either.


I freeze bacteria quite a bit at -80 C, and they come out just fine, and one of our cell culture lines (well, the only one we use, all the other ones that other labs used do the same) is kept frozen in liquid nitrogen for storage.

[LSU]

It never looked that bad. He would be in his nice hood working on his cell-culture and I would have to deal with injecting fucking zebra fish. I didn't see much cause for him to bitch...


Injecting fish is a bitch.

I didn't mind the cell culture so much, it was just the assay that had to be run. Had to do gentamicin exclusion assays and lyse cells every 4 hours for 12 hours and plate dilutions on plates to see how well the bacteria replicated...doing different mutants to see which were attenuated and such. I'd come in around 8 am and some nights wouldn't get out until 2-3 am.

[Hotpapa666]

As far as I know, no adult has ever been frozen, then thawed and had any physiological activity.

I wouldn't want to be the first one to try it, either.


I freeze bacteria quite a bit at -80 C, and they come out just fine, and one of our cell culture lines (well, the only one we use, all the other ones that other labs used do the same) is kept frozen in liquid nitrogen for storage.

Filling the Liquid Nitrogen tank was always my favorite lab job. Let a little "accidently" fall on the floor and watch it dance. If the boss is away, poach a little and play "let's see what happens": Throw a 1.5 ml with a lid-lock in there, see what happens to your gum.... good times.

[LSU]

Filling the Liquid Nitrogen tank was always my favorite lab job. Let a little "accidently" fall on the floor and watch it dance. If the boss is away, poach a little and play "let's see what happens": Throw a 1.5 ml with a lid-lock in there, see what happens to your gum.... good times.



I had a friend that was cooling off her diet coke in it one day...had a chem prof in undergrad that, as a demonstration, dropped a racquet ball into LN and then whipped it up against the wall. Wasn't a ball anymore.

I don't use it much. Haven't even had it in the lab really since some people were doing some virus work and were sampling RNA from organs...had to flash freeze the organs for later RNA isolation.

[Hotpapa666]

Injecting fish is a bitch.

I didn't mind the cell culture so much, it was just the assay that had to be run. Had to do gentamicin exclusion assays and lyse cells every 4 hours for 12 hours and plate dilutions on plates to see how well the bacteria replicated...doing different mutants to see which were attenuated and such. I'd come in around 8 am and some nights wouldn't get out until 2-3 am.

That is both the up and the down side of science isn't it? Working those strange hours is a bitch, but when I did it I felt oddly heroic, like I was making a sacrafice for the greater good or something... I did urine sampling as a undergrad that required me to take samples every 3 hours starting at 6:00 am, and then twice at night, all while taking classes so I didn't sleep much for a couple of days/month. I thought I was tough... Then I watched my wife go through residency, I wasn't shit...

[LSU]

That is both the up and the down side of science isn't it? Working those strange hours is a bitch, but when I did it I felt oddly heroic, like I was making a sacrafice for the greater good or something... I did urine sampling as a undergrad that required me to take samples every 3 hours starting at 6:00 am, and then twice at night, all while taking classes so I didn't sleep much for a couple of days/month. I thought I was tough... Then I watched my wife go through residency, I wasn't shit...


I'm working nights now (about 5:30 to midnight usually). Wife works during the day, and I stay home to watch the kid. Thinking maybe January we might start daycare if I need to get more time in at work. Right now, I'm getting my stuff done, but I have to save the long experiments for the weekends when I can be here all hours, but there aren't quite enough weekends to get them all done.

Working at night is pretty nice though. No one else in the lab, hell, no one in the whole building most of the time. Have all the equipment to myself, no one coming in asking me questions, no boss wanting to see my data...I've gotten used to it.

[Hotpapa666]

I'm working nights now (about 5:30 to midnight usually). Wife works during the day, and I stay home to watch the kid. Thinking maybe January we might start daycare if I need to get more time in at work. Right now, I'm getting my stuff done, but I have to save the long experiments for the weekends when I can be here all hours, but there aren't quite enough weekends to get them all done.

Working at night is pretty nice though. No one else in the lab, hell, no one in the whole building most of the time. Have all the equipment to myself, no one coming in asking me questions, no boss wanting to see my data...I've gotten used to it.

What's your time line for finishing?

[LSU]

What's your time line for finishing?


http://aura.zaadz.com/photos/8/70119/large/infinity-sign.jpg

[LSU]

http://aura.zaadz.com/photos/8/70119/large/infinity-sign.jpg


I had done a masters, and did it in 2 years...but when I came here, I switched science gears, and the transition took much longer than I expected, but I enjoyed the work a lot more, so I stuck with it. Basically, I had no molecular background, and it took me about 2-3 years to really get it...and not until after I finished my generals (aka comps, prelims, etc...written and oral exams to see if I've absorbed the material enough to stay in the program) that I really felt comfortable. Had a few failed experiments that took up a lot of time, but now I'm on something that should pan out, and hopefully should be defending in May or August, which would put me at 6 years.


Incidentally, my general exams (orals) were the Wednesday after the Monday Katrina hit.

That was awesome. We were without power for 4 days, so I was studying by flashlight.

[Hotpapa666]

I had done a masters, and did it in 2 years...but when I came here, I switched science gears, and the transition took much longer than I expected, but I enjoyed the work a lot more, so I stuck with it. Basically, I had no molecular background, and it took me about 2-3 years to really get it...and not until after I finished my generals (aka comps, prelims, etc...written and oral exams to see if I've absorbed the material enough to stay in the program) that I really felt comfortable. Had a few failed experiments that took up a lot of time, but now I'm on something that should pan out, and hopefully should be defending in May or August, which would put me at 6 years.


Incidentally, my general exams (orals) were the Wednesday after the Monday Katrina hit.

That was awesome. We were without power for 4 days, so I was studying by flashlight.


That's an awesome story. You're the Abe Lincoln of the next generation. Good luck on graduation sooner rather than later. Then you can start your post-doc...

[Tom Joad]

The last Jewish guy I spoke to told me Jesus was Hitler.

That's not a widely held belief.

[KinjaKahn]

That's not a widely held belief.
I think he was just trying to offend me.