What if Newt Gingrich......

[Vegas]

......had made a high profile foreign policy trip when Bill Clinton was the president the way Pelosi has?

Wouldn't the democrats and the media be going completely out of their minds?

[BoredWithNoSB]

Yes, because he would have gone there to start a war and to destabalize relationships, not normalize them and try to create peace.


In a way, though, its not much different than someone like Carter going over there. She has no legitimate authority, and I've got to imagine these governments know that.

Do I think Polsi is overstepping her role?
absolutely.
Do I think she is still doing more good than harm, though?
probably.

[swordfish]

I think its cool that she misspoke for both nations. Let's piss off Israel too.

[LSU]

I think its cool that she misspoke for both nations. Let's piss off Israel too.



Meh...if we piss them off, they have no recourse...what are they going to do, side with the Iranians?

It's us or nobody.

[Potomac Yank]

Newt being the president of the "I Luv my Wife Club" during the Clinton presidency.
During which time he took great pleasure at taking cheap shots at Slick Willy's adventures.

He then earned the presidency of the Hypocrites Club.

Go's without saying, the worm lost the respect of the majority of the men in this country ... except the religious right. :)

[ryr8828]

The Hypocrites Club has a huge membership and it's not confined to my party. I think Harry Reid and Al Gore hold lifetime memberships.

Newt's not going anywhere, he's best suited on the sidelines as an attack dog and that's where he'll stay. I haven't researched his personal life, but I couldn't vote for him in a primary for the simple fact that he can't win in a general election.
I don't really know the religious right's views on him, but forgiveness is the cornerstone of Christianity.

[BoredWithNoSB]

but I couldn't vote for him in a primary for the simple fact that he can't win in a general election.

Sad thing is I think he'd be competetive against Hillary. That would be the ugliest election ever. Maybe this is what the country needs to stop electing polarizing people in the primaries, though.

I'm all for it: Newt vs Hillary. Four years of pain to teach us all a lesson.

[ryr8828]

Sad thing is I think he'd be competetive against Hillary. That would be the ugliest election ever. Maybe this is what the country needs to stop electing polarizing people in the primaries, though.

I'm all for it: Newt vs Hillary. Four years of pain to teach us all a lesson.

Lessons learned don't last long.

9-11 was only a little over 5 years ago. The attention span of the American public is very short.

[Vegas]

I realize people have strong opinions about Newt, but what about my original question?

I believe Bill Clinton would have publicly and strongly condemned Newt going on a foreign trip and trying to make his own foreign policy. And Clinton would have been 100% correct in doing so.

[Jiddy78]

I realize people have strong opinions about Newt, but what about my original question?

I believe Bill Clinton would have publicly and strongly condemned Newt going on a foreign trip and trying to make his own foreign policy. And Clinton would have been 100% correct in doing so.

People will b*tch about anything. I'm living proof.

[George Washington]

I realize people have strong opinions about Newt, but what about my original question?

I believe Bill Clinton would have publicly and strongly condemned Newt going on a foreign trip and trying to make his own foreign policy. And Clinton would have been 100% correct in doing so.

Wht you seem to forget that Pelosi is in line behind Dugout Dick in succession to the presidency! And after all, the current president and his Secretary of State seem uninterested in conducting foreign policy other than fomenting wars of choice.

Even my own congressman, Republican Frank Wolf, has recently headed a trip to Syria with two other Republican congressmen, and has stated to newspapers that someone has to meet with our adversaries if peace is to be achieved and, we are told, that the Bush Administration faciliated that trip. Republican congressman Darrel Issa in now also going to Syria because Bush refuses to deal with Assad. To the best of my knowledge, none of those Republican worthies are Speaker of the House, House Minority Leader, House Majority Leader, or in line for succession to the presidency.

Care to engage in any more exchanges of selective memory or cherry-picking of facts?

[Vegas]

Wht you seem to forget that Pelosi is in line behind Dugout Dick in succession to the presidency! And after all, the current president and his Secretary of State seem uninterested in conducting foreign policy other than fomenting wars of choice.

Even my own congressman, Republican Frank Wolf, has recently headed a trip to Syria with two other Republican congressmen, and has stated to newspapers that someone has to meet with our adversaries if peace is to be achieved and, we are told, that the Bush Administration faciliated that trip. Republican congressman Darrel Issa in now also going to Syria because Bush refuses to deal with Assad. To the best of my knowledge, none of those Republican worthies are Speaker of the House, House Minority Leader, House Majority Leader, or in line for succession to the presidency.

Care to engage in any more exchanges of selective memory or cherry-picking of facts?


Where did I do that?

[LSU]

Wht you seem to forget that Pelosi is in line behind Dugout Dick in succession to the presidency! And after all, the current president and his Secretary of State seem uninterested in conducting foreign policy other than fomenting wars of choice.

Even my own congressman, Republican Frank Wolf, has recently headed a trip to Syria with two other Republican congressmen, and has stated to newspapers that someone has to meet with our adversaries if peace is to be achieved and, we are told, that the Bush Administration faciliated that trip. Republican congressman Darrel Issa in now also going to Syria because Bush refuses to deal with Assad. To the best of my knowledge, none of those Republican worthies are Speaker of the House, House Minority Leader, House Majority Leader, or in line for succession to the presidency.

Care to engage in any more exchanges of selective memory or cherry-picking of facts?



I think sending Issa is a good idea...if I remember correctly, isn't he of Lebanese descent? That is, he's probably more familiar with the culture and traditions of the middle east than most others in Congress, right or left...

[ryr8828]

Wht you seem to forget that Pelosi is in line behind Dugout Dick in succession to the presidency! And after all, the current president and his Secretary of State seem uninterested in conducting foreign policy other than fomenting wars of choice.

Even my own congressman, Republican Frank Wolf, has recently headed a trip to Syria with two other Republican congressmen, and has stated to newspapers that someone has to meet with our adversaries if peace is to be achieved and, we are told, that the Bush Administration faciliated that trip. Republican congressman Darrel Issa in now also going to Syria because Bush refuses to deal with Assad. To the best of my knowledge, none of those Republican worthies are Speaker of the House, House Minority Leader, House Majority Leader, or in line for succession to the presidency.

Care to engage in any more exchanges of selective memory or cherry-picking of facts?

While those could be part of a diplomatic plan, it's almost completely assured that Pelosi's trip was not.

[George Washington]

While those could be part of a diplomatic plan, it's almost completely assured that Pelosi's trip was not.

Hardly, if you care to examine their statements about the failures of the Bush Administration to effectively act on foreign policy initiatives; but the failure to recognize blatant hypocrisy on your own part or the part of your own political party is one of your most enduring and endearing traits.

[ryr8828]

Hardly, if you care to examine their statements about the failures of the Bush Administration to effectively act on foreign policy initiatives; but the failure to recognize blatant hypocrisy on your own part or the part of your own political party is one of your most enduring and endearing traits.

You said the Bush administration facilitated the trip. You must not understand the good cop, bad cop routine.
Why would the Bush administration back a trip in which the participants are going to give them bad pr if not for an end purpose?

I don't deny hypocrisy on the part of some Republicans. You seem to think they have an all encompassing patent on it.

[Vegas]

Hardly, if you care to examine their statements about the failures of the Bush Administration to effectively act on foreign policy initiatives; but the failure to recognize blatant hypocrisy on your own part or the part of your own political party is one of your most enduring and endearing traits.

So you condone Sandy Berger stuffing classified documents down his pants and hiding them?

[George Washington]

So you condone Sandy Berger stuffing classified documents down his pants and hiding them?


Don't place your penchant for personal and political hypocrisy on to me; Burger committed a crime, admitted his guilt, and has been fined for it. Do I think the punishment was sufficient for that crime? No, but a lot of political figures from both political parties manage to either lie their way out of indictments (see Karl Rove) or secure minor punisnments for significant crimes (see Sandy Burger and Scooter Libby).

[ryr8828]

Don't place your penchant for personal and political hypocrisy on to me; Burger committed a crime, admitted his guilt, and has been fined for it. Do I think the punishment was sufficient for that crime? No, but a lot of political figures from both political parties manage to either lie their way out of indictments (see Karl Rove) or secure minor punisnments for significant crimes (see Sandy Burger and Scooter Libby).

I need proof of:

Rove's prosecutable lie.

The significant crime of Scooter Libby, and how that sentence is a minor punishment.

Thanking you in advance in case I'm not around the site at that time.

[pnkpanther]

if newt gingrich pushed for gay marriage, new hopsitals, and to dismantle NCLB i'd still boo him, and start looking for the homo, the hospital, and education people who funded him

[George Washington]

I need proof of:

Rove's prosecutable lie.

The significant crime of Scooter Libby, and how that sentence is a minor punishment.

Thanking you in advance in case I'm not around the site at that time.

I know the level of proof you would need (beyond the convictions and/or self-confessions of Rove and Libby) and the only known persons whose testimony you would ever accept have been dead for many centuries. I strongly suspect that your views on political justice are those first raised by Louis XVI ("I am the State.") and later by Richard Nixon (It is not a crime if the President does it or orders it done, provided the president is a Republican).

You are the kind of person that gives hypocrisy a bad name!

[Vegas]

I know the level of proof you would need (beyond the convictions and/or self-confessions of Rove and Libby) and the only known persons whose testimony you would ever accept have been dead for many centuries. I strongly suspect that your views on political justice are those first raised by Louis XVI ("I am the State.") and later by Richard Nixon (It is not a crime if the President does it or orders it done, provided the president is a Republican).

You are the kind of person that gives hypocrisy a bad name!

OK, I get it. You can't offer any proof.

[ryr8828]

I know the level of proof you would need (beyond the convictions and/or self-confessions of Rove and Libby) and the only known persons whose testimony you would ever accept have been dead for many centuries. I strongly suspect that your views on political justice are those first raised by Louis XVI ("I am the State.") and later by Richard Nixon (It is not a crime if the President does it or orders it done, provided the president is a Republican).

You are the kind of person that gives hypocrisy a bad name!

If you're here for the sole reason of attacking me or anyone else, you won't last long.
Just go ahead and admit you have no proof, only slander.

[LSU]

Hey guys.

Cool it.

sst

sst

[George Washington]

If you're here for the sole reason of attacking me or anyone else, you won't last long.
Just go ahead and admit you have no proof, only slander.

How about information posted at this site? http://consortiumnews.com/archive/xfile.html

There is much more evidence but I doubt that any evidence that goes against your personal biases would ever be accepted by you.

By the way, truth is always a positive defense against slander! I have twice been accused in the past of slandering people and won in in both cases. I also have won a apology from a real slanderer!

[Vegas]

How about information posted at this site? http://consortiumnews.com/archive/xfile.html

There is much more evidence but I doubt that any evidence that goes against your personal biases would ever be accepted by you.

By the way, truth is always a positive defense against slander! I have twice been accused in the past of slandering people and won in in both cases. I also have won a apology from a real slanderer!

When asked to present proof, you came back with a personal attack. Would you not agree?

[Vegas]

How about information posted at this site? http://consortiumnews.com/archive/xfile.html

There is much more evidence but I doubt that any evidence that goes against your personal biases would ever be accepted by you.

By the way, truth is always a positive defense against slander! I have twice been accused in the past of slandering people and won in in both cases. I also have won a apology from a real slanderer!

After looking further, I have to ask: That site is your proof? Are you joking?

[ryr8828]

How about information posted at this site? http://consortiumnews.com/archive/xfile.html

There is much more evidence but I doubt that any evidence that goes against your personal biases would ever be accepted by you.

By the way, truth is always a positive defense against slander! I have twice been accused in the past of slandering people and won in in both cases. I also have won a apology from a real slanderer!


That article would be more at home in the Conspiracy Theories forum..

Is that all you've got?

[George Washington]

"When asked to present proof, you came back with a personal attack. Would you not agree?"

The statements you post at the bottom of on all of your comments are certainly meant to be a personal attack on any one that does not share your political or social views.

"Ecclesiastes 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.

Ayn Rand - "...observe that in all the propaganda of the ecologists—amidst all their appeals to nature and pleas for 'harmony with nature'—there is no discussion of man's needs and the requirements of his survival. Man is treated as if he were an unnatural phenomenon."


Try removing the mote from your own eyes first.

"After looking further, I have to ask: That site is your proof? Are you joking?"

No, are you joking? How much time did you give to revewing the site? I figure no more than ten seconds since you obviously did not go any further than one or two headlines of at least sixteen separate articles.

I repeat, you are giving hypocrisy a bad name!

[ryr8828]

"When asked to present proof, you came back with a personal attack. Would you not agree?"

The statements you post at the bottom of on all of your comments are certainly meant to be a personal attack on any one that does not share your political or social views.

"Ecclesiastes 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.

Ayn Rand - "...observe that in all the propaganda of the ecologists—amidst all their appeals to nature and pleas for 'harmony with nature'—there is no discussion of man's needs and the requirements of his survival. Man is treated as if he were an unnatural phenomenon."


Try removing the mote from your own eyes first.

"After looking further, I have to ask: That site is your proof? Are you joking?"

No, are you joking? How much time did you give to revewing the site? I figure no more than ten seconds since you obviously did not go any further than one or two headlines of at least sixteen separate articles.

I repeat, you are giving hypocrisy a bad name!

Do you have any plans of participating in reasonable debate on this site?

[Vegas]

"When asked to present proof, you came back with a personal attack. Would you not agree?"

The statements you post at the bottom of on all of your comments are certainly meant to be a personal attack on any one that does not share your political or social views. Try removing the mote from your own eyes first.

"After looking further, I have to ask: That site is your proof? Are you joking?"

No, are you joking? How much time did you give to revewing the site? I figure no more than ten seconds since you obviously did not go any further than one or two headlines of at least sixteen separate articles.

I repeat, you are giving hypocrisy a bad name!

So instead of giving me a direct answer, you point out my signature and tell me that my comments "are certainly meant to be a personal attack" like you know me or can read my mind. It was an easy yes/no question.

How much time did I spend reviewing the site? I check out a handful of links and enough to see what that place is. Ryr correctly pointed out that it's for the conspiracy types. It's got nothing to do with real news.

[LSU]

"When asked to present proof, you came back with a personal attack. Would you not agree?"

The statements you post at the bottom of on all of your comments are certainly meant to be a personal attack on any one that does not share your political or social views.

"Ecclesiastes 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.

Ayn Rand - "...observe that in all the propaganda of the ecologists—amidst all their appeals to nature and pleas for 'harmony with nature'—there is no discussion of man's needs and the requirements of his survival. Man is treated as if he were an unnatural phenomenon."


Try removing the mote from your own eyes first.

"After looking further, I have to ask: That site is your proof? Are you joking?"

No, are you joking? How much time did you give to revewing the site? I figure no more than ten seconds since you obviously did not go any further than one or two headlines of at least sixteen separate articles.

I repeat, you are giving hypocrisy a bad name!


so my signature is unreasonable, too?

[George Washington]

I see that the two top clowns of this site are playing tag-team tactics.

"That article would be more at home in the Conspiracy Theories forum..

Is that all you've got?"

You should know all about conspiracy theories since that seems to be the principal thrust of your every post! As a matter of fact, your reliance upon conspiracy theories is sufficient to land both of you jobs in the Bush Administration, that is assuming that you are not aleady under contract to the Great Republican Noise Machine. I understand that there may be some job openings for propagandists at the Justice Department; the current liars have already exhausted their credibility and you boys certainly have demonstrated endurance and partisan loyalty; you should be rewarded as you also appear to have the needed degrees of lack of shame and incompetence.

[Vegas]

I see that the two top clowns of this site are playing tag-team tactics.

"That article would be more at home in the Conspiracy Theories forum..

Is that all you've got?"

You should know all about conspiracy theories since that seems to be the principal thrust of your every post! As a matter of fact, your reliance upon conspiracy theories is sufficient to land both of you jobs in the Bush Administration, that is assuming that you are not aleady under contract to the Great Republican Noise Machine. I understand that there may be some job openings for propagandists at the Justice Department; the current liars have already exhausted their credibility and you boys certainly have demonstrated endurance and partisan loyalty; you should be rewarded as you also appear to have the needed degrees of lack of shame and incompetence.

I think you answered ryr's question about whether you were here for serious debate.

[LSU]

I see that the two top clowns of this site are playing tag-team tactics.

"That article would be more at home in the Conspiracy Theories forum..

Is that all you've got?"

You should know all about conspiracy theories since that seems to be the principal thrust of your every post! As a matter of fact, your reliance upon conspiracy theories is sufficient to land both of you jobs in the Bush Administration, that is assuming that you are not aleady under contract to the Great Republican Noise Machine. I understand that there may be some job openings for propagandists at the Justice Department; the current liars have already exhausted their credibility and you boys certainly have demonstrated endurance and partisan loyalty; you should be rewarded as you also appear to have the needed degrees of lack of shame and incompetence.



Oh. I understand now.

Continue.

[Jiddy78]

I need proof of:

Rove's prosecutable lie.

The significant crime of Scooter Libby, and how that sentence is a minor punishment.

Thanking you in advance in case I'm not around the site at that time.

I hold a strict policy of letting a violation of the "A man is only as good as his word" rule slide only 3 times...but 4 violations? Hang him.

[Jiddy78]

I see that the two top clowns of this site are playing tag-team tactics.

"That article would be more at home in the Conspiracy Theories forum..

Is that all you've got?"

You should know all about conspiracy theories since that seems to be the principal thrust of your every post! As a matter of fact, your reliance upon conspiracy theories is sufficient to land both of you jobs in the Bush Administration, that is assuming that you are not aleady under contract to the Great Republican Noise Machine. I understand that there may be some job openings for propagandists at the Justice Department; the current liars have already exhausted their credibility and you boys certainly have demonstrated endurance and partisan loyalty; you should be rewarded as you also appear to have the needed degrees of lack of shame and incompetence.

I'd like to help you just to put a craw in ryr and Vegas' asses....but alas, I know nothing about either Rove or Libby and frankly I don't know what the heck yer talking about. I'll see what kind of magic I can do...but you're not really giving me any openings here...

[ryr8828]

I see that the two top clowns of this site are playing tag-team tactics.

"That article would be more at home in the Conspiracy Theories forum..

Is that all you've got?"

You should know all about conspiracy theories since that seems to be the principal thrust of your every post! As a matter of fact, your reliance upon conspiracy theories is sufficient to land both of you jobs in the Bush Administration, that is assuming that you are not aleady under contract to the Great Republican Noise Machine. I understand that there may be some job openings for propagandists at the Justice Department; the current liars have already exhausted their credibility and you boys certainly have demonstrated endurance and partisan loyalty; you should be rewarded as you also appear to have the needed degrees of lack of shame and incompetence.

Guest posting has been turned off. Only registered users will be able to post from now on.

[LSU]

Guest posting has been turned off. Only registered users will be able to post from now on.


Cripes, I didn't know it was turned on...missed opportunities right there.


And like that *poof*...


he's gone.

[Jiddy78]

Guest posting has been turned off. Only registered users will be able to post from now on.


Concession.

Partisan Liberals 1

Half Liberals 0

[Potomac Yank]

This forum was different from the other one. :(

Whatever happened to the good Ol' fashion diversified NYC street fights.

After the heated debates, we all go out and have a beer together.
Ah, those were the days.

Oops forgot, I'm in middle America. ;)