Texas Lawmaker Wants Bible to Be Used as Textbook in State's Public Schools

[StEeLeRsGiRl1985]

DALLAS — A Texas legislator wants to require the state's nearly 1,700 public school districts to teach the Bible as a textbook, "not a worship document."

The House Public Education Committee was set late Tuesday to consider — but not vote on — a bill by Rep. Warren Chisum, R-Pampa, mandating high schools to offer history and literacy courses on the Old and New Testaments. The courses would be elective.

• SPEAKOUT: Is Teaching Religion in School a Step in the Right Direction?

The idea of teaching the Bible in school seems to be undergoing a revival nationally. Two literature classes on the Bible are included on a list of state-approved courses that Georgia public schools could choose to offer beginning next year. Some critics say it would be the first state to take an explicit stance endorsing and funding biblical teachings.

The Texas measure goes a step farther — requiring school districts to make such courses available, advocates on both sides agreed.

"We're not going to preach the Bible, we're going to teach the Bible and how it affects all of our writings, documents and the formation of our government," said Chisum. "We're taking it as a document that has historical value. It's the most widely distributed book in the world."

A study by the liberal watchdog group Texas Freedom Network last year identified 25 high schools in the state already offering such courses and said that many have serious problems.

The proposed legislation puts school districts in legal jeopardy, said Kathy Miller, TFN's director, who was joined at a news conference by theologians and clergy members opposed to the bill.

"These courses are often more about the religious beliefs of the teachers rather than true academic studies of the importance of the Bible in history and literature," she said.

The Chisum bill says the Old and New Testaments should each be the "basic textbook" for the courses.

The Greensboro, N.C.-based National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools promotes its curriculum as the only one that uses the Bible as its primary textbook. Supporters include the conservative American Family Association, Eagle Forum and Plano-based Liberty Legal Institute.

Elizabeth Ridenour, the council's president, said the group's material is already being used in 54 Texas school districts.

"The Texas Freedom Network will make any negative statement they can to try to basically blow smoke to scare people about this," she said. "We've never been legally challenged, and they know that. If what they say is happening were happening, lawsuits would have been filed a long time ago."

The bill says the courses must be taught in an "objective and nondevotional manner" that does not attempt to indoctrinate students.

But Mark Chancey, an associate professor in religious studies at Southern Methodist University in Dallas, said Judaism fares poorly in such courses. Students, he said, are taught how to read the Bible from a Christian perspective.

"'Christian' here means Protestant, by the way. Roman Catholic interpretations are almost invisible in most courses," he said.

Critics also argue that the bill's implementation this fall is too soon to have qualified Bible scholars in place.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,263801,00.html

[pnkpanther]

not in public schools.....

[BoredWithNoSB]

We used some Old Testament reading during the first couple weeks of our Brit Lit class in high school as background material, and I think the way it was presented was fine. You can't do a complete study of Brit Lit through history without that background.

If it is taught as part of a larger curriculum like that I have no problem. If it is taught as a stand-alone text, thats where I get fuzzy. In fact, I think it'd be cool to have a religious literature class. You'd have to bring in other texts, but if offered as an elective I think it'd be great.

[pnkpanther]

slippery slope, once we allow the bible, we'll have to allow the Qur'an, then hindu classes, and jsut like that, the american family will be ruined.

[Jiddy78]

slippery slope, once we allow the bible, we'll have to allow the Qur'an, then hindu classes, and jsut like that, the american family will be ruined.


Nothing makes me say "hmmm" more than the concept of religious text that teaches patience. virtue and caring being regarded as a destroyer of the family unit...

Life will never make sense.

[IBC]

I took religion classes in college, as I went to a private liberal arts school with a presbyterian history. It was actually great to learn about the Bible (and other texts)in a historical text. It piqued my interest and I have read off and on about it for a long time. However, I agree with Pink that you have to teach other religious texts too.

[Vegas]

I think it's a bad idea, but it really doesn't matter what I think. If the bill gets passed, it will be struck down by a court as soon as the court gets the chance. It will be seen as a violation of the establishment clause.

[pnkpanther]

Nothing makes me say "hmmm" more than the concept of religious text that teaches patience. virtue and caring being regarded as a destroyer of the family unit...

Life will never make sense.

sarcasm caught by jiddy - zero

[Iron Jaw]

There were many religious oriented courses available when I was in college. Of course, the courses were optional and the students were paying for the school - but, the school was state supported and receiving funds from the government. Thus, if someone want to scream they were "insulted" by the courses of study, I'm sure they could have found some money-grabbing lawyer willing to take up the lawsuit.

I have no problem at all with courses such as "The Bible as Literature" being taught at the high school or junior high leve. It's hard enough to get the kids to read and write anything anymore.

[Iron Jaw]

I think it's a bad idea, but it really doesn't matter what I think. If the bill gets passed, it will be struck down by a court as soon as the court gets the chance. It will be seen as a violation of the establishment clause.

We do have a conservative SCOTUS now - though they've made a few out of character decisions as of late. One never knows though.

[Jiddy78]

sarcasm caught by jiddy - zero

I blame it on Twins 2-0 and Sox 0-1.

[Vegas]

We do have a conservative SCOTUS now - though they've made a few out of character decisions as of late. One never knows though.

We have a slightly less liberal SCOTUS than we did a couple of years ago, but I wouldn't call them conservative. They have still made decisions that had nothing to do with the constitution or precedent (the recent CO2 thing is one example).

In this case, there is far too much precedent for them not to strike down that law.

[IBC]

In this case, there is far too much precedent for them not to strike down that law.Thankfully. However our founding fathers were Christian right?

[Vegas]

Thankfully. However our founding fathers were Christian right?

Yes. And your point is....???

[IBC]

Yes. And your point is....???
The founding fathers views on religion were in no way aligned with the fundamentalist views of Christians today. In fact many were more deist than anything else. The Christianity we see today is a mockery of what it is supposed to be in my opinion.

[LSU]

There were many religious oriented courses available when I was in college. Of course, the courses were optional and the students were paying for the school - but, the school was state supported and receiving funds from the government. Thus, if someone want to scream they were "insulted" by the courses of study, I'm sure they could have found some money-grabbing lawyer willing to take up the lawsuit.

I have no problem at all with courses such as "The Bible as Literature" being taught at the high school or junior high leve. It's hard enough to get the kids to read and write anything anymore.



The optional part is the key...if the class was optional in HS, I would have no problem with it. It doesn't matter if the university gets state or federal funds, the classes are optional. If you're a religious studies major, they wouldn't be, but that's what you're there for is to study religion. And the university would probably have classes that teach all sorts of religions, not just Christianity...

So, if you want to compare a U to a HS, then you're going to need the classes to be optional (unless you make it required to have a religion class...but then you need to have it open to many religions...within reason...). And if it's offered, be prepared for the community (perhaps a small percentage, but people nonetheless) to fight it and/or ask for more than one religion to be taught...

Now, if it were a "buffet" of sorts that taught the similarities/differences of a bunch of religions, then it might be a good idea, IMO...but I don't see that as being the case in most places.

My opinion is that if you want your child to learn the Bible, YOU teach it...either at home or through Bible study at church, or Sunday school, or private school.

[Vegas]

The founding fathers views on religion were in no way aligned with the fundamentalist views of Christians today. In fact many were more deist than anything else. The Christianity we see today is a mockery of what it is supposed to be in my opinion.

So how is Christianity supposed to be?

[LSU]

So how is Christianity supposed to be?



Kumbaya, my Lord.


Kumbaya.

[IBC]

Kumbaya, my Lord.


Kumbaya.
Not far off. You aren't supposed to take the Bible literally. You aren't supposed to have selective interpretation of the Bible. You are supposed to be peaceful and accepting. You are not supposed to be greedy or glorify power. You are not supposed to judge others. sound like our Christian President? No? Sound like the leaders of the Evangelical movement? No?

[LSU]

Not far off. You aren't supposed to take the Bible literally. You aren't supposed to have selective interpretation of the Bible. You are supposed to be peaceful and accepting. You are not supposed to be greedy or glorify power. You are not supposed to judge others. sound like our Christian President? No? Sound like the leaders of the Evangelical movement? No?



Of course...that's your interpretation of Christianity...which could be selective...which is what you've denounced...which makes it one whole F'n circle of interpretation...which is what got us in trouble in the first place.

My stance is that man is wrong. At least in regards to God or gods. Man is flawed, man's concept of God is flawed. Man is not perfect, God is, so only God knows what God wants. Man does not.

So live life well and treat others well. That's all I got.

[IBC]

Of course...that's your interpretation of Christianity...which could be selective...which is what you've denounced...which makes it one whole F'n circle of interpretation...which is what got us in trouble in the first place.

My stance is that man is wrong. At least in regards to God or gods. Man is flawed, man's concept of God is flawed. Man is not perfect, God is, so only God knows what God wants. Man does not.

So live life well and treat others well. That's all I got.
Of course it is, but nowhere in the bible does it say to acquire vast amounts of wealth, land, resources and capital through any means possible.

[LSU]

Of course it is, but nowhere in the bible does it say to acquire vast amounts of wealth, land, resources and capital through any means possible.



I haven't read the Bible, so I'll have to take your word for it.


But I do have to say, that's what I think the Bible wouldn't say...

[IBC]

I haven't read the Bible, so I'll have to take your word for it.


But I do have to say, that's what I think the Bible wouldn't say...
I consider myself as Atheist as I am anything else, but I went to a little school and took old and new testament.

[ryr8828]

I consider myself as Atheist as I am anything else, but I went to a little school and took old and new testament.

So you're saying you don't believe in God, you just know how those who do believe in him should act in order to be holy.

[Jiddy78]

So you're saying you don't believe in God, you just know how those who do believe in him should act in order to be holy.

Pushing aside judgmentalism, is faith a prerequisite for morality?

[ryr8828]

Pushing aside judgmentalism, is faith a prerequisite for morality?

I suppose not, but what the hel does that have to do with my post?

[Jiddy78]

I suppose not, but what the hel does that have to do with my post?


I'm trying to strike up conversation and make you feel guilty at the same time...For me, that's like a win-win.

[ryr8828]

I'm trying to strike up conversation and make you feel guilty at the same time...For me, that's like a win-win.

You have zero chance with the guilt trip.

Slight chance with the convo as I've got stuff to do.

[StEeLeRsGiRl1985]

"The Greensboro, N.C.-based National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools promotes its curriculum as the only one that uses the Bible as its primary textbook. Supporters include the conservative American Family Association, Eagle Forum and Plano-based Liberty Legal Institute.

Elizabeth Ridenour, the council's president, said the group's material is already being used in 54 Texas school districts.

"The Texas Freedom Network will make any negative statement they can to try to basically blow smoke to scare people about this," she said. "We've never been legally challenged, and they know that. If what they say is happening were happening, lawsuits would have been filed a long time ago.""

I think that if it is an elective course I think that it should be allowed, because it provides a better understanding of certain literature, such as Shakespeare.... Although I think that other people would want to have other religious texts in the class as well and I also think that should happen, but this should all be taught with out imposing a belief or religion..... It is already in use in other schools in Texas and if there haven't been any lawsuits so far I don't think that there will be a whole lot... but then again people could get upset from all the press coverage and just want to get their faces on the news or try and bring it down....Once again I think that it should be an elective class, and I think that it should include other religious texts besides the Bible alone, and I think that it should be watched closely so that religious beliefs of the teacher aren't coming through in the teaching.