Bush, GOP senators trim border fence goal

[Vegas]

To put it very mildly, this pisses me off.

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20070402-113108-7889r.htm

Six months after approving a bill promising to build some 850 miles of fence along the U.S.-Mexico border, the Bush administration and Senate Republicans are now saying 370 miles is enough.
In his negotiations with Republican senators, Mr. Bush also appears to have rejected the key compromise in the Senate bill passed last year: allowing only longtime illegal aliens with "roots" to have a path to citizenship. He instead favors a more circuitous path that is open to almost all illegal aliens.
Mr. Bush has embraced higher financial penalties for illegal aliens who want to remain in the United States, and for the first time has accepted specific "triggers," including stepped-up enforcement, that must be met before legalization and guest-worker plans go into effect, according to a PowerPoint presentation that administration officials and advisers say represents the state of discussions between Mr. Bush and Senate Republicans.
The presentation, first obtained and released by U.S. News & World Report, calls for 370 miles of fencing, 200 miles of vehicle barriers and 300 miles of electronic monitoring on the border. By that trigger, the guest-worker and legalization programs could begin with less than 900 miles of the 1,950-mile U.S.-Mexico border being monitored or blocked.
"Traditional fencing is an important part of the overall border security strategy," said White House spokesman Scott Stanzel. He said fencing is most effective in metropolitan areas and that sensors, ground-based radar and unmanned aerial vehicles are adequate in remote locations. Mr. Bush's proposed budget called for $1 billion to be invested in infrastructure and technology on the border next year, he said.
Some Republicans are annoyed that Mr. Bush appears ready to ignore mandates of the Secure Fence Act.
"I drafted that bill. It says 'shall.' That's the same language we put in the border fence in San Diego," said Rep. Duncan Hunter, California Republican. "Doggone it, this is the law. Follow the law."
Michael Friel, a spokesman for U.S. Customs and Border Protection, said the 370 miles is based on an assessment of how much fencing can be put into place by the end of 2008. CBP also expects to erect about 200 miles of vehicle barriers along the border, he said.
"The infrastructure piece is not a stand-alone effort. Infrastructure is very much part of a strategy that includes the right mix of personnel and technology, and those three components make up our border security strategy," Mr. Friel said.
In addition to the triggers, Mr. Bush and Senate Republicans appear to have agreed on:
• Beginning registration of illegal aliens six months after a bill passes, and giving them one year to register for the program, which puts them on "probation."
• Huge fines, including $2,000 assessed every three years during probation and $10,000 for a green card signifying legal permanent residency.
• Moving up the English requirements to take effect after three years of probation. The requirements now begin with a citizenship application.
• Barring many illegal aliens from collecting Social Security benefits based on work performed while illegal.
• Prohibiting future guest workers from bringing their families, as a way of making sure they don't put down roots and try to remain past their temporary work period.
Mr. Bush's new direction has irked those on both sides of the immigration debate, although the White House said these "discussion points" are not concrete.
Groups that advocate legalization of illegal aliens thought they had an ally in Mr. Bush.
"The White House has sadly gone in the opposite direction," said Clarissa Martinez-De-Castro, campaign manager for the Coalition for Comprehensive Immigration Reform. "We urge the White House and Senate Republicans who are serious about getting reform done to adjust their course dramatically."
Those pushing for tighter controls were also displeased.
"It's still amnesty," said Kurt Bardella, a spokesman for Rep. Brian P. Bilbray, California Republican and chairman of the Congressional Immigration Reform Caucus. "With all of the window-dressing provisions that are here, at the end of the day the end result is the same: You are giving specialized status and a mechanism for [illegal aliens] to stay here indefinitely, which is an amnesty."

[pnkpanther]

fence didnt stop east germans
we're moving all of our factories down there, soon enough the fence will be keeping us out

[Jiddy78]

To put it very mildly, this pisses me off.

[


Just like the gas price suck-in...A suck you in political vote tool....Nothing new...And I wonder why the shysters get away with it...We're led by shysters...thus their kind will prevail.

Should be a very prosperous rebounding economic time come next summer...I have no doubt...All new lifetime all-time highs on the dow...Housing sales will only fall 2% year over year....New subprime ride 'em to bankruptcy whore shops will open with large bosomed 18-22 year old broads at the door to greet you and facilitate you that lifestyle check...

WHOOT!

[pnkpanther]

Just like the gas price suck-in...A suck you in political vote tool....Nothing new...And I wonder why the shysters get away with it...We're led by shysters...thus their kind will prevail.

Should be a very prosperous rebounding economic time come next summer...I have no doubt...All new lifetime all-time highs on the dow...Housing sales will only fall 2% year over year....New subprime ride 'em to bankruptcy whore shops will open with large bosomed 18-22 year old broads at the door to greet you and facilitate you that lifestyle check...

WHOOT!

sometimes i have no idea what you're saying

[Jiddy78]

sometimes i have no idea what you're saying

They pulled funding on the fence after they no longer needed the political push for the elections....

Next summer, pre-elections, I expect more carrots in front our our conglomerated donkey.

That help?

[BoredWithNoSB]

whore shops will open with large bosomed 18-22 year old broads at the door to greet you

This part sounded pretty good.

[Iron Jaw]

The fence will not stop illegal entries of foot traffic. But the fence is very effective against drive-thru vehicle traffic.

We already have quite a few miles of steel fence and bollards (vehicle barriers) along the border. The National Guard, Army Corps of Engineers and the Marines have been building the fences for the past 15 years.

And in the areas where the fence/barriers are, the drive-thru traffic cannot get through.

Drive-thru traffic is among the most dangerous aspects of my profession. The smugglers fill the vehicles with people (35 aliens in a suburban, etc.) and drive like crazed psychos. They try to ram us, speed down the wrong side of the highway or interstate - very dangerous to the people they're transporting and the public. We try and get the spikes down before they make it to the highway, but it is very difficult to work and accidents are common.

Foot traffic is much easier to deal with. That's why the fence is beneficial to the Border Patrol.

[Vegas]

The fence will not stop illegal entries of foot traffic. But the fence is very effective against drive-thru vehicle traffic.

We already have quite a few miles of steel fence and bollards (vehicle barriers) along the border. The National Guard, Army Corps of Engineers and the Marines have been building the fences for the past 15 years.

And in the areas where the fence/barriers are, the drive-thru traffic cannot get through.

Drive-thru traffic is among the most dangerous aspects of my profession. The smugglers fill the vehicles with people (35 aliens in a suburban, etc.) and drive like crazed psychos. They try to ram us, speed down the wrong side of the highway or interstate - very dangerous to the people they're transporting and the public. We try and get the spikes down before they make it to the highway, but it is very difficult to work and accidents are common.

Foot traffic is much easier to deal with. That's why the fence is beneficial to the Border Patrol.

So are you upset that they are not going to build the fence as long as originally planned?

[swordfish]

In my mind the fence should not be required. What needs to happen is to reduce the "profitability" of these illegals coming to the US. If illegals could not find work they would not come. One can argue that drug traffickers will still come but with any real investigative work they would be shut down. The real criminals here are the companies that hire illegals. They take advantage of underprivileged people and they make money by breaking the law. I have to provide a SS # when I fill out my w2. The main problem is that republicans want to serve big business and democrats want to get extra votes. I rarely agree with new legislation but in this case they need to hang the employers.

[ryr8828]

In my mind the fence should not be required. What needs to happen is to reduce the "profitability" of these illegals coming to the US. If illegals could not find work they would not come. One can argue that drug traffickers will still come but with any real investigative work they would be shut down. The real criminals here are the companies that hire illegals. They take advantage of underprivileged people and they make money by breaking the law. I have to provide a SS # when I fill out my w2. The main problem is that republicans want to serve big business and democrats want to get extra votes. I rarely agree with new legislation but in this case they need to hang the employers.

If IronJaw wants a fence, I say build a fence.

Hell, build a big wall. The damn Mongolians may want a piece of our ass next.

I also make a motion we tell Mexico to go fuck themselves. They complain that we don't freely admit their citizens to come up here and take ar jabs, then they complain because we're ten feet over their border building the fence or trying to put out a fire. Screw them.

[IBC]

If IronJaw wants a fence, I say build a fence.

Hell, build a big wall. The damn Mongolians may want a piece of our ass next.

I also make a motion we tell Mexico to go fuck themselves. They complain that we don't freely admit their citizens to come up here and take ar jabs, then they complain because we're ten feet over their border building the fence or trying to put out a fire. Screw them.
We have been telling Mexico to go fuck themselves for years with our policies, which helped get us here.

[ryr8828]

We have been telling Mexico to go fuck themselves for years with our policies, which helped get us here.

And those policies are?

[IBC]

And those policies are?
Use them for cheap labor. Keep all the capital we can in our hands, even when the factories are there. Turn our backs while they come here to work for cheap wages, then get pissed when they don't Americanize. Under the guise of the war on drugs, intermingle in their political affairs so that friendly candidates are in office. Exploit their labor yet again through the guise of free trade.

[ryr8828]

Use them for cheap labor. Keep all the capital we can in our hands, even when the factories are there. Turn our backs while they come here to work for cheap wages, then get pissed when they don't Americanize. Under the guise of the war on drugs, intermingle in their political affairs so that friendly candidates are in office. Exploit their labor yet again through the guise of free trade.

Please excuse me if I believe most of that to be bullshit.

[Vegas]

Use them for cheap labor. Keep all the capital we can in our hands, even when the factories are there. Turn our backs while they come here to work for cheap wages, then get pissed when they don't Americanize. Under the guise of the war on drugs, intermingle in their political affairs so that friendly candidates are in office. Exploit their labor yet again through the guise of free trade.

I believe that I know more about Mexico than you do. The problems in Mexico that you are blaming on the USA are Mexico's own problems. We keep the capital here? That's because of the rules that Mexico has to exclude foreign investment.

Exploit their free labor? NAFTA has increased the opportunities for workers in Mexico. More opportunity within Mexico is a problem? I don't think so.

And as far as intermingling in their political affairs under the guise of the war on drugs......I'm afraid you are misinformed. The problems with the drug running in Mexico are mostly an issue of corruption within Mexico.

[i_hate_righties]

Use them for cheap labor. Keep all the capital we can in our hands, even when the factories are there. Turn our backs while they come here to work for cheap wages, then get pissed when they don't Americanize. Under the guise of the war on drugs, intermingle in their political affairs so that friendly candidates are in office. Exploit their labor yet again through the guise of free trade.



Dont forget that we have loaned mexico billions and billions of dollars to reform their governement, to build industry, etc.,etc.etc....and all it has done is line the pockets of corrupt mexican politicians, while familes cannot support themselves. We lent mexico tons of money when they discovered their rich oil supplies that promised jobs for thousands....never happened....If any of you were poverty stricken and couldnt feed your children, but knew that just a hop,skip and a jump away was an oppotunity to go somewhere that you could make the money you so desperately needed, wouldnt you go for it?....Do you honestly think that if there was an ability to work and earn a living wage in their own country that mexicans would still want to come here in droves?....the solution of a fence, no matter how long it is, is a bandaid!...We can go over to the middle east and try and reform governments by force, but we cant come up with a better solution to solve an issue that is right on our border....insanity at its best!

[Vegas]

Dont forget that we have loaned mexico billions and billions of dollars to reform their governement, to build industry, etc.,etc.etc....and all it has done is line the pockets of corrupt mexican politicians, while familes cannot support themselves. We lent mexico tons of money when they discovered their rich oil supplies that promised jobs for thousands....never happened....If any of you were poverty stricken and couldnt feed your children, but knew that just a hop,skip and a jump away was an oppotunity to go somewhere that you could make the money you so desperately needed, wouldnt you go for it?....Do you honestly think that if there was an ability to work and earn a living wage in their own country that mexicans would still want to come here in droves?....the solution of a fence, no matter how long it is, is a bandaid!...We can go over to the middle east and try and reform governments by force, but we cant come up with a better solution to solve an issue that is right on our border....insanity at its best!

If you can figure out a way to get Mexico to open markets, deregulate banking, and sell off Pemex you would cause the biggest economic boom of our times.

[Jiddy78]

If IronJaw wants a fence, I say build a fence.

Hell, build a big wall. The damn Mongolians may want a piece of our ass next.

I also make a motion we tell Mexico to go fuck themselves. They complain that we don't freely admit their citizens to come up here and take ar jabs, then they complain because we're ten feet over their border building the fence or trying to put out a fire. Screw them.

Listen here chico...No gettin' yours when you get in front of me gettin' mine...Got that Hombre? I'm sorry Julio, I didn't hear you...

http://www.solarnavigator.net/images/terminator_robot.jpg

[Jiddy78]

Dont forget that we have loaned mexico billions and billions of dollars to reform their governement, to build industry, etc.,etc.etc....and all it has done is line the pockets of corrupt mexican politicians, while familes cannot support themselves. We lent mexico tons of money when they discovered their rich oil supplies that promised jobs for thousands....never happened....If any of you were poverty stricken and couldnt feed your children, but knew that just a hop,skip and a jump away was an oppotunity to go somewhere that you could make the money you so desperately needed, wouldnt you go for it?....Do you honestly think that if there was an ability to work and earn a living wage in their own country that mexicans would still want to come here in droves?....the solution of a fence, no matter how long it is, is a bandaid!...We can go over to the middle east and try and reform governments by force, but we cant come up with a better solution to solve an issue that is right on our border....insanity at its best!


We gave them paper money...How cute...Does that mean we owe the asians similar to the Mexicans owe us?

:eek: :eek: :eek:

[i_hate_righties]

I believe that I know more about Mexico than you do. The problems in Mexico that you are blaming on the USA are Mexico's own problems. We keep the capital here? That's because of the rules that Mexico has to exclude foreign investment.

Exploit their free labor? NAFTA has increased the opportunities for workers in Mexico. More opportunity within Mexico is a problem? I don't think so.

And as far as intermingling in their political affairs under the guise of the war on drugs......I'm afraid you are misinformed. The problems with the drug running in Mexico are mostly an issue of corruption within Mexico.


I know personally of a mexican official who was working in Tiajuana at the time, who was paid 100,000 u.s. dollars just to look the other way while a truck was crossing the border into the u.s.....Do you think he didnt take the money?....Everyone has some sense of morals, and some sense of greed....If you have a family to support and are desperate, the morals go out the window!

[Jiddy78]

If you can figure out a way to get Mexico to open markets, deregulate banking, and sell off Pemex you would cause the biggest economic boom of our times.

Yeah...but for who? Free market indeed...Opportunity will be there...but reality will tell the story as to who "benefits"....

[Vegas]

I know personally of a mexican official who was working in Tiajuana at the time, who was paid 100,000 u.s. dollars just to look the other way while a truck was crossing the border into the u.s.....Do you think he didnt take the money?....Everyone has some sense of morals, and some sense of greed....If you have a family to support and are desperate, the morals go out the window!

The problem goes far beyond an official here and there, but the fact remains that it's more Mexico's problem than it is ours.

[Jiddy78]

I know personally of a mexican official who was working in Tiajuana at the time, who was paid 100,000 u.s. dollars just to look the other way while a truck was crossing the border into the u.s.....Do you think he didnt take the money?....Everyone has some sense of morals, and some sense of greed....If you have a family to support and are desperate, the morals go out the window!


Just think a little bit further...Blood in the streets baby....Just a little bit further...

[Vegas]

Yeah...but for who? Free market indeed...Opportunity will be there...but reality will tell the story as to who "benefits"....

Everyone benefits. In this case the biggest benefits would go to the Mexican people.

[Jiddy78]

The problem goes far beyond an official here and there, but the fact remains that it's more Mexico's problem than it is ours.


Who is making the wall again? Who has the...problem? I'm confused...Oh right...We're all f*cked.

http://www.haxed.co.uk/gallery/albums/ownage/lmao-real.jpg


That makes all these semantics easier to sift through...

[Vegas]

Who is making the wall again? Who has the...problem? I'm confused...Oh right...We're all f*cked.

http://www.haxed.co.uk/gallery/albums/ownage/lmao-real.jpg


That makes all these semantics easier to sift through...

Do you think we can solve the problems in Mexico by allowing untold millions of their citizens to come here?

[LSU]

Do you think we can solve the problems in Mexico by allowing untold millions of their citizens to come here?



We're trying to solve the problem in Iraq by allowing our untold billions to go there.

[i_hate_righties]

If you can figure out a way to get Mexico to open markets, deregulate banking, and sell off Pemex you would cause the biggest economic boom of our times.


this is a link to an article from 12 years ago.....tell me anything has changed...

http://www.iht.com/articles/1995/02/22/peso_10.php

[Jiddy78]

Do you think we can solve the problems in Mexico by allowing untold millions of their citizens to come here?

Last time I checked, the banks were foaming at the mouth for their business...Foregoing social security rules to get 'em in the door and set 'em up to buy some nice sh*tboxes....Sooooo...I think our free market capitalist enterprises like them...As for solving problems? Can we? Hell no...We just consume on the backs of others...With the turnip runnin' dry, how the hell are we gonna be like "Ya want some turnip mexico????"

We should be shipping them to Asia with this fence money.

[Iron Jaw]

In my mind the fence should not be required. What needs to happen is to reduce the "profitability" of these illegals coming to the US. If illegals could not find work they would not come. One can argue that drug traffickers will still come but with any real investigative work they would be shut down. The real criminals here are the companies that hire illegals. They take advantage of underprivileged people and they make money by breaking the law. I have to provide a SS # when I fill out my w2. The main problem is that republicans want to serve big business and democrats want to get extra votes. I rarely agree with new legislation but in this case they need to hang the employers.

Swords, the means to do exactly that has been on the books since the Immigration Reform Control Act (IRCA) of 1986 (my rookie year in the Border Patrol). From 1986-93, the Border Patrol.....and to some extent, the Immigration and Naturalization Service (IN&S) Criminal Investigators, actively pursued employer sanctions charges against companies who were hiring illegal aliens or not complying with the mandated I-9 (declaration of citizenship) forms on their application files. During that period, in Yuma, our agents working sanctions successfully charged and fined (the fines were pretty hefty) 271 local companies for sanction violations. At that time the Border Patrol also had interior stations in different parts of the country. The primary functions of the interior stations were employer sanctions and job site raids (the latter, our agency had always done).

However, in late 1993, new President Clinton appointed Doris Meissner to head the IN&S. She took the advice of the El Paso Chief (Sylvester Reyes, who is now in the U.S. House - and still a numbskull) and ordered all of the interior stations closed. She ordered the movement of all agents to the border itself. Operations such as "Hold the Line, Gatekeeper and Full Forward Deployment" ensued. Problem #1: What about the backup troops to catch the getaways and to work sanctions/jobsite enforcement in the interior. Problem #1 ignored. The Border Patrol did not have enough manpower to catch or deter every illegal alien entering the country - and without interior enforcement, catch those who entered illegally, those who entered legally but overstayed and those who were legal, Resident Aliens who committed felonies or crimes involving moral terpitude who were subject to losing their legal status.

Doris fixed that. She ordered the Border Patrol to not work employer sanctions or to conduct jobsite raids more than 25 miles away from the actual border.:eek: She turned the sanctions/jobsite enforcement programs over to IN&S Criminal Investigations (CI'S). Again, the CI's did not have the manpower or the logistics to actively work the program. The CI's primarily work the jails/prisons/courts seeking criminal aliens. They barely had sufficient manpower to work their normal functions.

Thus, the employer sanctions/jobsite enforcement programs died. While still on the books. That makes things look pretty - in reality, I honestly believe those in the congress and the oval office did not really want agents to perform either one of those functions, while adding the agents to the border itself made select, high-profile areas like San Diego's border area look pretty.

Meanwhile, aliens who make it past the Border Patrol on the border, or those who enter legally and become illegal - are home free so long as they stay in ther interior and stay out of jails where the CI's may be lurking.

In 2003, the IN&S ended and the Border Patrol became part of the newly formed Department of Homeland Security. Interior enforcement was now assigned to Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). Again, same problems. ICE is understaffed and does not have the logistics to carry out an effective sanctions program. Plus, ICE is headed by former members of the U.S. Customs Service who oversee the actions of former IN&S Agents. Legacy Customs Officers liked to work the illegal drugs - high priority for them, and those who are legacy do not like working illegal aliens/smugglers. So we have an inter-departmental war going on. ICE has had some high-profile raid/sanctions cases as of late. Unfortunately, the raids are limited in scope - but the service highlights them to tell the public that ICE is working the sanctions program very hard.

Before we can every again become effective, we need to re-create the interior stations, and allow the Border Patrol to once again run the sanctions/site enforcement programs (let ICE do what they're best at). The Border Patrol currently has over 15,000 agents (it was 3,700 when I joined in the 80's) nationwide and is supplemented by National Guard units. We have another mass hiring program going on and expect to increase our force to over 20,000 in the next two years. But we need to regain control of our interior enforcement programs.

Anyway, that's the way I see it from my vantage point on the border. A team can have a great defensive line, but it doesn't win many games without linebackers, cornerbacks and safeties.

[swordfish]

Swords, the means to do exactly that has been on the books since the Immigration Reform Control Act (IRCA) of 1986 (my rookie year in the Border Patrol). From 1986-93, the Border Patrol.....and to some extent, the Immigration and Naturalization Service (IN&S) Criminal Investigators, actively pursued employer sanctions charges against companies who were hiring illegal aliens or not complying with the mandated I-9 (declaration of citizenship) forms on their application files. During that period, in Yuma, our agents working sanctions successfully charged and fined (the fines were pretty hefty) 271 local companies for sanction violations. At that time the Border Patrol also had interior stations in different parts of the country. The primary functions of the interior stations were employer sanctions and job site raids (the latter, our agency had always done).

However, in late 1993, new President Clinton appointed Doris Meissner to head the IN&S. She took the advice of the El Paso Chief (Sylvester Reyes, who is now in the U.S. House - and still a numbskull) and ordered all of the interior stations closed. She ordered the movement of all agents to the border itself. Operations such as "Hold the Line, Gatekeeper and Full Forward Deployment" ensued. Problem #1: What about the backup troops to catch the getaways and to work sanctions/jobsite enforcement in the interior. Problem #1 ignored. The Border Patrol did not have enough manpower to catch or deter every illegal alien entering the country - and without interior enforcement, catch those who entered illegally, those who entered legally but overstayed and those who were legal, Resident Aliens who committed felonies or crimes involving moral terpitude who were subject to losing their legal status.

Doris fixed that. She ordered the Border Patrol to not work employer sanctions or to conduct jobsite raids more than 25 miles away from the actual border.:eek: She turned the sanctions/jobsite enforcement programs over to IN&S Criminal Investigations (CI'S). Again, the CI's did not have the manpower or the logistics to actively work the program. The CI's primarily work the jails/prisons/courts seeking criminal aliens. They barely had sufficient manpower to work their normal functions.

Thus, the employer sanctions/jobsite enforcement programs died. While still on the books. That makes things look pretty - in reality, I honestly believe those in the congress and the oval office did not really want agents to perform either one of those functions, while adding the agents to the border itself made select, high-profile areas like San Diego's border area look pretty.

Meanwhile, aliens who make it past the Border Patrol on the border, or those who enter legally and become illegal - are home free so long as they stay in ther interior and stay out of jails where the CI's may be lurking.

In 2003, the IN&S ended and the Border Patrol became part of the newly formed Department of Homeland Security. Interior enforcement was now assigned to Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). Again, same problems. ICE is understaffed and does not have the logistics to carry out an effective sanctions program. Plus, ICE is headed by former members of the U.S. Customs Service who oversee the actions of former IN&S Agents. Legacy Customs Officers liked to work the illegal drugs - high priority for them, and those who are legacy do not like working illegal aliens/smugglers. So we have an inter-departmental war going on. ICE has had some high-profile raid/sanctions cases as of late. Unfortunately, the raids are limited in scope - but the service highlights them to tell the public that ICE is working the sanctions program very hard.

Before we can every again become effective, we need to re-create the interior stations, and allow the Border Patrol to once again run the sanctions/site enforcement programs (let ICE do what they're best at). The Border Patrol currently has over 15,000 agents (it was 3,700 when I joined in the 80's) nationwide and is supplemented by National Guard units. We have another mass hiring program going on and expect to increase our force to over 20,000 in the next two years. But we need to regain control of our interior enforcement programs.

Anyway, that's the way I see it from my vantage point on the border. A team can have a great defensive line, but it doesn't win many games without linebackers, cornerbacks and safeties.

Sonuvabitch, my hand is getting red from all the high fives. Iron Jaw you rock!

PS Are you saying that this is partially Bill Clinton's fault? Man your going to have a hard time convincing the libs. All they remember is that blowjob.

[Jiddy78]

Swords, the means to do exactly that has been on the books since the Immigration Reform Control Act (IRCA) of 1986 (my rookie year in the Border Patrol). From 1986-93, the Border Patrol.....and to some extent, the Immigration and Naturalization Service (IN&S) Criminal Investigators, actively pursued employer sanctions charges against companies who were hiring illegal aliens or not complying with the mandated I-9 (declaration of citizenship) forms on their application files. During that period, in Yuma, our agents working sanctions successfully charged and fined (the fines were pretty hefty) 271 local companies for sanction violations. At that time the Border Patrol also had interior stations in different parts of the country. The primary functions of the interior stations were employer sanctions and job site raids (the latter, our agency had always done).

However, in late 1993, new President Clinton appointed Doris Meissner to head the IN&S. She took the advice of the El Paso Chief (Sylvester Reyes, who is now in the U.S. House - and still a numbskull) and ordered all of the interior stations closed. She ordered the movement of all agents to the border itself. Operations such as "Hold the Line, Gatekeeper and Full Forward Deployment" ensued. Problem #1: What about the backup troops to catch the getaways and to work sanctions/jobsite enforcement in the interior. Problem #1 ignored. The Border Patrol did not have enough manpower to catch or deter every illegal alien entering the country - and without interior enforcement, catch those who entered illegally, those who entered legally but overstayed and those who were legal, Resident Aliens who committed felonies or crimes involving moral terpitude who were subject to losing their legal status.

Doris fixed that. She ordered the Border Patrol to not work employer sanctions or to conduct jobsite raids more than 25 miles away from the actual border.:eek: She turned the sanctions/jobsite enforcement programs over to IN&S Criminal Investigations (CI'S). Again, the CI's did not have the manpower or the logistics to actively work the program. The CI's primarily work the jails/prisons/courts seeking criminal aliens. They barely had sufficient manpower to work their normal functions.

Thus, the employer sanctions/jobsite enforcement programs died. While still on the books. That makes things look pretty - in reality, I honestly believe those in the congress and the oval office did not really want agents to perform either one of those functions, while adding the agents to the border itself made select, high-profile areas like San Diego's border area look pretty.

Meanwhile, aliens who make it past the Border Patrol on the border, or those who enter legally and become illegal - are home free so long as they stay in ther interior and stay out of jails where the CI's may be lurking.

In 2003, the IN&S ended and the Border Patrol became part of the newly formed Department of Homeland Security. Interior enforcement was now assigned to Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). Again, same problems. ICE is understaffed and does not have the logistics to carry out an effective sanctions program. Plus, ICE is headed by former members of the U.S. Customs Service who oversee the actions of former IN&S Agents. Legacy Customs Officers liked to work the illegal drugs - high priority for them, and those who are legacy do not like working illegal aliens/smugglers. So we have an inter-departmental war going on. ICE has had some high-profile raid/sanctions cases as of late. Unfortunately, the raids are limited in scope - but the service highlights them to tell the public that ICE is working the sanctions program very hard.

Before we can every again become effective, we need to re-create the interior stations, and allow the Border Patrol to once again run the sanctions/site enforcement programs (let ICE do what they're best at). The Border Patrol currently has over 15,000 agents (it was 3,700 when I joined in the 80's) nationwide and is supplemented by National Guard units. We have another mass hiring program going on and expect to increase our force to over 20,000 in the next two years. But we need to regain control of our interior enforcement programs.

Anyway, that's the way I see it from my vantage point on the border. A team can have a great defensive line, but it doesn't win many games without linebackers, cornerbacks and safeties.

Nice post....and right to the heart of the matter...These things happen because people in charge are averting their eyes....intentionally...

[Iron Jaw]

Sonuvabitch, my hand is getting red from all the high fives. Iron Jaw you rock!

PS Are you saying that this is partially Bill Clinton's fault? Man your going to have a hard time convincing the libs. All they remember is that blowjob.

Bill Clinton was one of many presidents weak on illegal immigration. In all reality, the last president who was strong on illegal immigration was Dwight D. Eisenhower - and he left office 46 years ago.:(

[pnkpanther]

clinton wasnt perfect, but i'd take his mistakes over bush's

[Jiddy78]

clinton wasnt perfect, but i'd take his mistakes over bush's

On August 5, President Clinton signed into law the Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997. This omnibus revenue bill significantly changed the rules governing the tax treatment of gain recognized on the sale or exchange of a “principal residence.” The new rules—which apply to transactions closing on or after May 7, 1997—provide an exclusion from income of $250,000 of gain ($500,000 for married taxpayers filing jointly) recognized on the sale of what is, for most individuals, the most significant and expensive capital asset they will ever own—their home.


You think so??? I dare to contend.

[Jiddy78]

You think so??? I dare to contend.


Let's go ahead and lump onto this:

CAPITAL GAINS TAX RATES

The top capital gains tax rate, which had been 28%, is lowered to 20%. People in the 15% income tax bracket will pay 10% on capital gains. The new rates apply to investments held for more than a year and sold after May 6, 1997, and before July 29, 1997. For assets sold July 29th or later, the lower rate will apply only if the assets have been held more than 18 months. Depreciated real property is subject to special recapture provisions.

Assets purchased in 2001 and later and held for more than five years will be taxed at an 8% rate for lowest bracket taxpayers and at 18% for the higher bracket taxpayers. To utilize the 18% and 8% rates on capital gains on property held more than five years, you can elect to treat certain property held prior to January 1, 2001 as having been sold and repurchased. You would be required to pay taxes on any gain. Losses are not deductible. Return to Index


Nothing like PROMOTING buy and hold over actual work/production.

Nice job Monica.

[Vegas]

Let's go ahead and lump onto this:

CAPITAL GAINS TAX RATES




Nothing like PROMOTING buy and hold over actual work/production.

Nice job Monica.

Capital gains is a double taxation already. The rates are too high.

[pnkpanther]

so capital shouldnt be taxed? only labor?

[Jiddy78]

Capital gains is a double taxation already. The rates are too high.

To quote a wise man: "You've got to be kidding me."

[Vegas]

so capital shouldnt be taxed? only labor?

When a corporation makes a profit, the first thing they have to do is pay income taxes. Then when they pay dividends, the shareholders get taxed again on the dividend. When they show growth, the stock goes up and the shareholders pay capital gains.

And the wages earned at the company get taxed at various levels. The employer has to pay the matching taxes on social security and medicare as well as whatever local taxes.

[Jiddy78]

When a corporation makes a profit, the first thing they have to do is pay income taxes. Then when they pay dividends, the shareholders get taxed again on the dividend. When they show growth, the stock goes up and the shareholders pay capital gains.

And the wages earned at the company get taxed at various levels. The employer has to pay the matching taxes on social security and medicare as well as whatever local taxes.

Yeah...so where does secondary market trading and real estate speculation play into this scenario??? Oh right, it's "inflation hedging"...:rolleyes:

[pnkpanther]

so you think capital gains tax should be 0?

yeah, that wouldnt benefit the wealthy at all.....

i say we cut labor tax and increase capital gains taxes....

[Jiddy78]

Yeah...so where does secondary market trading and real estate speculation play into this scenario??? Oh right, it's "inflation hedging"...:rolleyes:



Since 1997? Doubled....Oh, in the meantime it dropped MORE than it had ever BEEN pre 1997.

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=indu&sid=0&o_symb=indu&freq=2&time=13&x=25&y=25


"Created" money should be taxed.

[Jiddy78]

so you think capital gains tax should be 0?

yeah, that wouldnt benefit the wealthy at all.....

i say we cut labor tax and increase capital gains taxes....


What's somewhat humorous is that your concept here is closer to a consumption tax than would be the reverse that Vegas is suggesting....

[Vegas]

so you think capital gains tax should be 0?

yeah, that wouldnt benefit the wealthy at all.....

i say we cut labor tax and increase capital gains taxes....

So you want to make investing more unattractive? And that would be good for the economy how?

[Jiddy78]

So you want to make investing more unattractive? And that would be good for the economy how?

People will invest so long as there is a way to make money and grow wealth...Redistribution of tax burden will not change that....just make it harder for those that depend solely on that type of income. I could just tell those people to "diversify" their income means similar to them telling me to diversify my retirement....

[Vegas]

People will invest so long as there is a way to make money and grow wealth...Redistribution of tax burden will not change that....just make it harder for those that depend solely on that type of income. I could just tell those people to "diversify" their income means similar to them telling me to diversify my retirement....

But people are more likely to invest when there is a better return on the investment. When capital gains taxes are higher, your returns will absolutely be lower.

And by the way, when a company loses money the government isn't there to help.

[BoredWithNoSB]

And by the way, when a company loses money the government isn't there to help.

Chrysler, Northwest Airlines, Delta Airlines, The whole farming industry.....

[LSU]

But people are more likely to invest when there is a better return on the investment. When capital gains taxes are higher, your returns will absolutely be lower.

And by the way, when a company loses money the government isn't there to help.


Really?


What about this? Lower taxes on income and raise on cap gains...

So, the company will lose some money...but wouldn't a company benefit from the increased money in the pockets of the people paying less taxes on income?

Trickle up. That's my new theory.

[pnkpanther]

Chrysler, Northwest Airlines, Delta Airlines, The whole farming industry.....

farm subsidies need to go......IMO

and that's a recent change for me...

[Jiddy78]

Really?


What about this? Lower taxes on income and raise on cap gains...

So, the company will lose some money...but wouldn't a company benefit from the increased money in the pockets of the people paying less taxes on income?

Trickle up. That's my new theory.


LOL

[Jiddy78]

But people are more likely to invest when there is a better return on the investment. When capital gains taxes are higher, your returns will absolutely be lower.

And by the way, when a company loses money the government isn't there to help.

A company needs to be profitable to survive...Losses can be carried back against prior gains if there is a cash flow problem...or carried forward vs. future ones...Heck, companies even use these rules for planning if tax rates are going up/down in the future...

No help???

[LSU]

LOL


Serious. You could trust the everyday worker that they would do things that benefit the whole rather than just covering their own asses...just like the corporations do...

[Jiddy78]

Serious. You could trust the everyday worker that they would do things that benefit the whole rather than just covering their own asses...just like the corporations do...

I've worked in small business (one owner/family biz types) long enough to know that's not the case LSU....These guys are just as cutthroat as the big boys...Greed is rampant.

[LSU]

I've worked in small business (one owner/family biz types) long enough to know that's not the case LSU....These guys are just as cutthroat as the big boys...Greed is rampant.


Behold...the use of an emoticon by me...


:eek:


the hell you say!!!!!

[Vegas]

Chrysler, Northwest Airlines, Delta Airlines, The whole farming industry.....

Of course, I'm talking about smaller newer businesses, which is what drives economic growth.