Democrats Can't Handle the Good News

[Vegas]

http://www.townhall.com/Columnists/DavidLimbaugh/2007/07/24/democrats_cant_handle_the_good_news

Very good news is coming out of Iraq. Not surprisingly, this hasnt caused a change of heart among the Democratic leadership. It hasnt even given them pause. One wonders if they are capable of hearing such news anymore.

The Times Online reports that Al Qaeda is facing rebellion from within its ranks. Fed up with being part of a group that cuts off a persons face with piano wire to teach others a lesson, dozens of low-level members of Al Qaeda are daring to become informants for the U.S. military in a hostile Baghdad neighborhood.
Some of these junior Al Qaeda members are said to be repulsed by the gratuitous, barbaric violence. One said, I am sick of it and I hate them, and I am done.

The good news doesnt stop here. Al Qaeda is not only facing internal dissension, but evidence is also emerging that other ethnic forces formerly friendly to Al Qaeda are changing their tune. Iraqi locals are denying Al Qaeda the sanctuary they need to operate. Lt. Col Stephen Michael, commander of a 700-troop battalion in Doura, says, Al Qaedas days are numbered, and right now he is scrambling.

This news, says the Times, comes out of Doura. But it is part of a wider trend that has started in other Al Qaeda hotspots across the country and in which Sunni insurgent groups and tribal sheikhs have stood together with the coalition against the extremist movement.

Along the same lines, The Washington Times reports that U.S. forces have brokered an agreement between Sunni and Shiite tribal leaders in Taji, Iraq, to join forces against Al Qaeda and other extremists, which represents an extension of a policy already implemented in Anbar province that has transformed the security situation there.

This isnt some flimsy handshake deal. Tribal leaders agreed to use members of more than 25 local tribes to protect the area around Taji from Sunni and Shiite extremists. Its also significant that tribal forces approached U.S. forces to initiate this agreement.

Al Qaedas inhumanity is not the only reason things are beginning to change in Iraq. The reports clearly indicate that the increased number of U.S. forces in Doura has made the locals feel its less dangerous for them to turn toward us. These reports are direct confirmation that the surge strategy is working.
Has any of this good news coming out of Iraq prompted Democrats to rethink their opposition to victory?

A brief survey of recent headlines reveals quite the opposite. Sunday, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said he would press forward on legislation to pull U.S. troops out of Iraq, despite the Democrats failed efforts last week to pass such a bill. He also said Republicans who voted against withdrawal of our troops were engaged in partisan gamesmanship. If that isnt a textbook case of psychological projection, Ive never seen one.
Meanwhile, Senator Russ Feingold told NBCs Tim Russert that he wants Congress to censure President Bush for his management of the Iraq War and his assault on the Constitution. While Reid didnt readily warm to the idea of a censure, he did say that the president already has the mark of the American people that hes the worst president weve ever had. Hows that for rising above partisanship and supporting your commander in chief during wartime?

Elsewhere, that great patriot from San Francisco, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, derided President Bushs call for congressional Democrats to rise above partisanship. Like Reid, Pelosi said the American people have lost faith in Bush and she will continue to cause Congress to vote to end this war every chance she gets.

Speaking of partisanship, news reports around the web demonstrate that while the Bush administration and our armed forces are doing everything they can to accomplish serious, non-partisan business in Iraq in furtherance of the nonpartisan goal of promoting our national security, Democratic leaders are bogging down the administration in frivolous investigations over matters that arent even arguably illegal.

In other news, Democratic presidential candidates are traveling the country trying to outdo each other in the nonpartisan activity of pandering to illegal immigrants for their votes (Obama has gone so far as to court La Raza). Other party leaders are trying to develop strategies to unburden the party of its image as the party of abortion. Of course, they're not doing anything to unburden themselves of the party's moral failure on it.

That concludes our report.
The Washington Times also reports -- surely much to the chagrin of war naysayers who have gloated that we have been greeted not as liberators but occupiers -- that U.S. soldiers walking through Sunni villages have been greeted warmly, with locals shaking the soldiers' hands and kissing their cheeks. Just a month ago, according to Sgt. Richard Fisk, every single one of these people was shooting at us.

[IBC]

Facts? Where are they in the articles you post? I have posted many that say, with facts, that things are worse. To say they are actually better with no evidence is pretty foolhearty. It also does a disservice to our men and women in uniform, most of whom want us out.

[Vegas]

Facts? Where are they in the articles you post? I have posted many that say, with facts, that things are worse. To say they are actually better with no evidence is pretty foolhearty. It also does a disservice to our men and women in uniform, most of whom want us out.

I get the impression that you really want us to lose in Iraq.

[IBC]

I get the impression that you really want us to lose in Iraq.

Want us to lose? Because I ask for facts that say were winning instead of an attack piece on Dems that just suggests we are winning?

[IBC]

How many times have we heard we are turning the corner? How many times have we heard that everything is going well?

I really get the feeling that you want more troops to die. Doesn't feel good does it?

[Vegas]

How many times have we heard we are turning the corner? How many times have we heard that everything is going well?

I really get the feeling that you want more troops to die. Doesn't feel good does it?

Would you be happy if the surge succeeds and we end up with a clear victory in Iraq?

[ryr8828]

Would you be happy if the surge succeeds and we end up with a clear victory in Iraq?

No matter his feelings on it I'm positive that Reid and Pelosi would be damn disappointed.

[Vegas]

No matter his feelings on it I'm positive that Reid and Pelosi would be damn disappointed.

And B. Hussein Obama, Joe Biden, John Kerry, etc.

[hannitykillspuppies]

Would you be happy if the surge succeeds and we end up with a clear victory in Iraq?
what does a clear victory in iraq entail?

[hannitykillspuppies]

And B. Hussein Obama, Joe Biden, John Kerry, etc.
are you steve ducey?

[Tom Joad]

Town Hall, really? They've never met a Republican they wouldn't fellate.

[Vegas]

Town Hall, really? They've never met a Republican they wouldn't fellate.

I suppose you're a big fan of CBS news and the NY Times??

[Tom Joad]

I suppose you're a big fan of CBS news and the NY Times??

You should really start numbering your standard replies for more ease of use.

I read the news from MSNBC, CNN, ABC & Yahoo. As for newspapers, the only one I read is my local one.

[ryr8828]

It's amazing how the only unbiased news sites are those with which liberals agree.

[IBC]

And B. Hussein Obama, Joe Biden, John Kerry, etc.
I quote Vegas:

"Don't put words in my mouth. I've never said anything like that.

For a guy that reacts with such anger to any post he doesn't agree with, you have some nerve saying that about me. when have I accused anyone of being anti-American or a terrorist sympathizer?"

[Vegas]

You should really start numbering your standard replies for more ease of use.

I read the news from MSNBC, CNN, ABC & Yahoo. As for newspapers, the only one I read is my local one.

Yahoo isn't really a news source as they get their content from news wire services. The others you mention are clearly liberal sources.

[IBC]

what does a clear victory in iraq entail?

*crickets*

[Vegas]

I quote Vegas:

"Don't put words in my mouth. I've never said anything like that.

For a guy that reacts with such anger to any post he doesn't agree with, you have some nerve saying that about me. when have I accused anyone of being anti-American or a terrorist sympathizer?"

So saying that liberal politicians don't want victory in Iraq is an attack on you?

[IBC]

Yahoo isn't really a news source as they get their content from news wire services. The others you mention are clearly liberal sources.

Clearly.

[IBC]

So saying that liberal politicians don't want victory in Iraq is an attack on you?

No. It is accusing the left of being anti-american. Bullshit, that is what that little rant yesterday was.

[Vegas]

No. It is accusing the left of being anti-american. Bullshit, that is what that little rant yesterday was.

I notice that you didn't answer my question. Would you be happy about an American victory in Iraq?

[IBC]

You guys sign up for the fuckin army and go to Iraq. Armchair patriots. Sign up.

[IBC]

I notice that you didn't answer my question. Would you be happy about an American victory in Iraq?

Define victory in this war.

[ryr8828]

You guys sign up for the fuckin army and go to Iraq. Armchair patriots. Sign up.

I signed up for the draft when it was my time.

Everyone in the service now has signed up of their own free will.

[IBC]

I signed up for the draft when it was my time.

Everyone in the service now has signed up of their own free will.

There blood is on your hands too. Not mine. Yours.

[Vegas]

Define victory in this war.

The Iraqis are able to self govern and live in relative peace. Democracy further spreads in the middle east and Islamic terrorism greatly shrinks.

[ryr8828]

There blood is on your hands too. Not mine. Yours.

And exactly how is that?

[IBC]

The Iraqis are able to self govern and live in relative peace. Democracy further spreads in the middle east and Islamic terrorism greatly shrinks.

We will never accomplish that. Do you care that the war has had the opposite effect so far as you deem victory?

[Vegas]

There blood is on your hands too. Not mine. Yours.

Their blood isn't on the hands of the terrorists? The people who want to kill you and me?

[IBC]

And exactly how is that?

You and other Americans continue to support sending them to their deaths, when they don't want to be there, and the war is unwinnable by Vegas' very definition.

[Vegas]

We will never accomplish that. Do you care that the war has had the opposite effect so far as you deem victory?

You still don't answer the question. Would that result make you happy or would you continue your anger at GWB and conservatives?

[IBC]

Their blood isn't on the hands of the terrorists? The people who want to kill you and me?

No. THERE WAS NO AL QAEDA IN IRAQ PRIOR TO THE WAR. Afghanistan blood are on the hands of the terrorists, Iraq is on your hands buddy.

[ryr8828]

You and other Americans continue to support sending them to their deaths, when they don't want to be there, and the war is unwinnable by Vegas' very definition.

You speak for the entire armed forces of the US now?

[IBC]

You still don't answer the question. Would that result make you happy or would you continue your anger at GWB and conservatives?
It would make me happy. But we have had teh opposite effect. As far as your definition goes, the opposite effect has happened in every way since we started the war in Iraq.

[Vegas]

No. THERE WAS NO AL QAEDA IN IRAQ PRIOR TO THE WAR. Afghanistan blood are on the hands of the terrorists, Iraq is on your hands buddy.

Keep telling yourself that.

And why did we go to war against Germany when Germany didn't bomb Pearl Harbor?

[IBC]

You speak for the entire armed forces of the US now?

No, I speak for the majority in polls done by Armed Forces Publications. Who do you speak for? A minority of troops and a bunch of politicians profiting? I hope you have stock in the military-industrial complex so that you get something out of this. I have got nothing except a friend coming back with PTSD and another in harms way now.

[IBC]

Keep telling yourself that.

And why did we go to war against Germany when Germany didn't bomb Pearl Harbor?

WW@ reference again. What a joke. You fuckin prove that Al Qaead was there. Oh, you can't? Keep following the people that got us here. There blood is on your hands.

[Vegas]

No, I speak for the majority in polls done by Armed Forces Publications. Who do you speak for? A minority of troops and a bunch of politicians profiting? I hope you have stock in the military-industrial complex so that you get something out of this. I have got nothing except a friend coming back with PTSD and another in harms way now.

I have a nephew in Iraq. I have a good friend whose son lost the use of one arm in Iraq. Both are absolutely in complete support of the war and both believe that we will win as long as the libs don't quit first.

[Jiddy78]

Keep telling yourself that.

And why did we go to war against Germany when Germany didn't bomb Pearl Harbor?

Nukes were sufficient.

[IBC]

I have a nephew in Iraq. I have a good friend whose son lost the use of one arm in Iraq. Both are absolutely in complete support of the war and both believe that we will win as long as the libs don't quit first.

Yeah. We will win. Is it untrue to say that as far as victory (your definition) we are farther away then we were two years ago? 3 years ago? Before the war started?
You aren't dumb. You have seen the stats. Deaths of US soldiers on the rise and continuing. More terrorists now then before the war. Deaths of Iraqi civilians on teh rise and continuing. Terror attacks up.
Will you go fight? Why not?

[Jiddy78]

Nukes were sufficient.

Which begs the question...Pearl Harbor and our nukes don't qualify as "war?"

[Vegas]

Nukes were sufficient.

The biggest issue was that Germany was allied with Japan. Like Sadam was allied with the bad guys from 9/11.

And don't forget that the official policy of regime change in Iraq was signed by Clinton.

[IBC]

The biggest issue was that Germany was allied with Japan. Like Sadam was allied with the bad guys from 9/11.

And don't forget that the official policy of regime change in Iraq was signed by Clinton.

No he wasn't. That is an outright lie. You are telling lies. Read the 9/11 commission report.
Good job though bringing up Clinton? WTF?

[IBC]

The biggest issue was that Germany was allied with Japan. Like Sadam was allied with the bad guys from 9/11.



The fact that you fall for that garbage after it has been disproven discredits your entire point.

[Vegas]

The fact that you fall for that garbage after it has been disproven discredits your entire point.

Because it's disproved to yourself?

[hannitykillspuppies]

The Iraqis are able to self govern and live in relative peace. Democracy further spreads in the middle east and Islamic terrorism greatly shrinks.
well since that's never gonna happen, can we please get the hell out now?

[hannitykillspuppies]

Their blood isn't on the hands of the terrorists? The people who want to kill you and me?yes the great and evil iraqi terrorists that started this whole war on terror on 9/11. how many of those guys were iraqi again?

[hannitykillspuppies]

Keep telling yourself that.

And why did we go to war against Germany when Germany didn't bomb Pearl Harbor?so now we're comparing wwII germany to 2003 iraq. brilliant.

[hannitykillspuppies]

The biggest issue was that Germany was allied with Japan. Like Sadam was allied with the bad guys from 9/11.

And don't forget that the official policy of regime change in Iraq was signed by Clinton.
absolutely untrue.

[hannitykillspuppies]

Because it's disproved to yourself?
are you able to prove it?

[IBC]

Because it's disproved to yourself?

No, because it is disproved by anyone who has ever looked at it.

[IBC]

I choose to believe what is untrue because we live in a free country and I can believe whatever I want. Keep hitching your boat to these lies. After all, with the above attitude you never have to own up to it, right?

[Vegas]

I choose to believe what is untrue because we live in a free country and I can believe whatever I want. Keep hitching your boat to these lies. After all, with the above attitude you never have to own up to it, right?

And you can keep living in your dream world where Islamic terrorists don't want to kill us.

[IBC]

And you can keep living in your dream world where Islamic terrorists don't want to kill us.

See, the difference is I never said that. You spoke clear lies just a minute ago.

[IBC]

And you can keep living in your dream world where Islamic terrorists don't want to kill us.

Oh, and you keep supporting policies that are proven by actual stats to make more terrorists.

[Vegas]

See, the difference is I never said that. You spoke clear lies just a minute ago.

So I want US soldiers dead and I'm a liar? For a guy that gets so pissy, you're on a real roll today.

[Jiddy78]

And you can keep living in your dream world where Islamic terrorists don't want to kill us.

Why do they want to kill us?

[Vegas]

Why do they want to kill us?

It's clearly taught in their religion. We're infidels and we need to be killed.

[Jiddy78]

It's clearly taught in their religion. We're infidels and we need to be killed.

Ok...So I'm a muslim kid being taught religion and I ask "Why are the Americans infidels that must die?"

And you, the muslim teacher say?

[hannitykillspuppies]

And you can keep living in your dream world where Islamic terrorists don't want to kill us.
i don't believe he said that. weren't you bitching yesterday about people putting words in your mouth?

[IBC]

So I want US soldiers dead and I'm a liar? For a guy that gets so pissy, you're on a real roll today.

I didn't say you are a liar. You are repeating lies, and that is true. I said the other thing to prove a point when you accused me of wanting the US to lose after all that shit you spewed yesterday. I ask for facts and stats from you. You rarely give any. Instead you post drivel like this article. You won't address the fact that you have been doing this as long as we have posted on this site and been wrong about tthe direction the war is going. Instead you attack me as wanting us to lose. You are better than that.

[IBC]

It's clearly taught in their religion. We're infidels and we need to be killed.

Misrepresentation.

[hannitykillspuppies]

So I want US soldiers dead and I'm a liar? For a guy that gets so pissy, you're on a real roll today.and you've stated that he wants the us to lose a war and that he's a simpleton for believing iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. goose meet gander.

[IBC]

i don't believe he said that. weren't you bitching yesterday about people putting words in your mouth?

Yes, and then he said those words today. More roundabout than I put it, but he accused me of wanting the US to lose because I point out facts.

[ryr8828]

I didn't say you are a liar. You are repeating lies, and that is true. I said the other thing to prove a point when you accused me of wanting the US to lose after all that shit you spewed yesterday. I ask for facts and stats from you. You rarely give any. Instead you post drivel like this article. You won't address the fact that you have been doing this as long as we have posted on this site and been wrong about tthe direction the war is going. Instead you attack me as wanting us to lose. You are better than that.

Have you been to Iraq?

Joe Lieberman has.

[Vegas]

Ok...So I'm a muslim kid being taught religion and I ask "Why are the Americans infidels that must die?"

And you, the muslim teacher say?

2:191, And slay them wherever ye catch them.

4:84, Then fight in Allah’s cause.

4:141, And never will Allah grant to the unbelievers a way (to triumph) over the believers.

5:33, The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter.

8:12, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.

8:17, It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah.

8:60, Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.

8:65, O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers.

9:5, But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem.

[ryr8828]

Yes, and then he said those words today. More roundabout than I put it, but he accused me of wanting the US to lose because I point out facts.

Link?

[hannitykillspuppies]

It's clearly taught in their religion. We're infidels and we need to be killed.so we need to get rid of all those who practice islam, not just the islamist terrorists?

[IBC]

Link?
First page, this thread.

[hannitykillspuppies]

Have you been to Iraq?

Joe Lieberman has.
right and downtown baghdad is like an indiana farmers' market.

[IBC]

Link?

If you are talking about the facts in the Iraq war, I have posted them countles times. Visit government websites, that is where I get them. It didn't change your minds then, you still come out and repeat lies so what does it fuckin matter. I have stats and facts on my side. If you did you would post them. I have countless times.

[hannitykillspuppies]

2:191, And slay them wherever ye catch them.

4:84, Then fight in Allah’s cause.

4:141, And never will Allah grant to the unbelievers a way (to triumph) over the believers.

5:33, The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter.

8:12, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.

8:17, It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah.

8:60, Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.

8:65, O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers.

9:5, But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem.
so if they all want to kill us, why are we wasting lives, money, resources, time etc trying to build a democratic govt? why aren't we killing them before they kill us?

[IBC]

Have you been to Iraq?

Joe Lieberman has.

Joementum is a joke.

[IBC]

If you are talking about the facts in the Iraq war, I have posted them countles times. Visit government websites, that is where I get them. It didn't change your minds then, you still come out and repeat lies so what does it fuckin matter. I have stats and facts on my side. If you did you would post them. I have countless times.

Exactly, now go away and return in a month to say we are winning again. Then when i say no we aren't, tell me I want us to lose. When I say facts say we aren't and we need to leave, then just come back in another month and say we are winning. Do this until Dems take over and end the war. At this point blame them for losing the war for us.

[hannitykillspuppies]

Exactly, now go away and return in a month to say we are winning again. Then when i say no we aren't, tell me I want us to lose. When I say facts say we aren't and we need to leave, then just come back in another month and say we are winning. Do this until Dems take over and end the war. At this point blame them for losing the war for us.
owned.

[ryr8828]

I'm looking forward to the win in Iraq in more ways than one. It will be hilarious to see the Democrats flip once more and try to claim it as their own.

[hannitykillspuppies]

I'm looking forward to the win in Iraq in more ways than one. It will be hilarious to see the Democrats flip once more and try to claim it as their own.do you define win the same way vegas does? because if you do, there's no way the both of you are dumb enough to believe that actually has a chance in hell of happening.

[IBC]

I'm looking forward to the win in Iraq in more ways than one. It will be hilarious to see the Democrats flip once more and try to claim it as their own.

2048?

[ryr8828]

The Democrats have so much political capital invested in defeat that they'd never admit a victory.

[hannitykillspuppies]

The Democrats have so much political capital invested in defeat that they'd never admit a victory.
any idea on what you consider victory? or are you just going to wait until your fearless leader says we have won and than say i told you we'd win.

[IBC]

The Democrats have so much political capital invested in defeat that they'd never admit a victory.

Are we winning?
On a side note, you have got to be fucking kidding me.

[hannitykillspuppies]

any idea on what you consider victory? or are you just going to wait until your fearless leader says we have won and than say i told you we'd win.i mean i know it's an unfair question, but seriously, what will constitute a win?

[IBC]

any idea on what you consider victory? or are you just going to wait until your fearless leader says we have won and than say i told you we'd win.
Didn't he already do that?

http://z.about.com/d/uspolitics/1/0/m/C/mission_accomplished.jpg
http://dev2dev.bea.com/blog/hoos/Mission%20Accomplished.jpg

[IBC]

i mean i know it's an unfair question, but seriously, what will constitute a win?

Stop. That is way out of bounds. We are winning. Just know that. Dems-Bad Repubs- Glorius victory IBC- Wants us to lose Dead troops- What dead troops
Dems- Don't support troops VA- What is that?

[hannitykillspuppies]

yeah, but the democrats who are the ones who make a mockery of the troops and lower their morale.
http://www.overspun.com/images/bush_wmd_joke_lon816.jpg

[Tom Joad]

Yahoo isn't really a news source as they get their content from news wire services. The others you mention are clearly liberal sources.

Bullshit. And if they are? You post stuff from clearly sites that are clearly Conservative (Faux News, Town Hall).

[Emmanuel]

yes the great and evil iraqi terrorists that started this whole war on terror on 9/11. how many of those guys were iraqi again?
They all look a like, they must all be the same.

[Emmanuel]

The Democrats have so much political capital invested in defeat that they'd never admit a victory.
Victory?

We won years ago, where were you at?

[Emmanuel]

In related news, reports indicate we are inching ever so closer to a clear victory in the War on Drugs.

[ryr8828]

Victory?

We won years ago, where were you at?

Yes we did. We won the war against Hussein's Iraq.

Very quickly.

[hannitykillspuppies]

Yes we did. We won the war against Hussein's Iraq.

Very quickly.

for what purpose was that done?

[ryr8828]

for what purpose was that done?

I've stated this many times. I'll not state it again in every thread I post in on this board.

[Emmanuel]

Yes we did. We won the war against Hussein's Iraq.

Very quickly.
i may take a trip to the holy land in the coming months to view the spectacular difference.

[hannitykillspuppies]

I've stated this many times. I'll not state it again in every thread I post in on this board.

link?

[Emmanuel]

link?
let's just assume it was to oust an evil dictator and free his people.

let's assume it negatively impacting the original war on terror as not a factor either way in it's glorious triumph overall.

[hannitykillspuppies]

let's just assume it was to oust an evil dictator and free his people.

let's assume it negatively impacting the original war on terror as not a factor either way in it's glorious triumph overall.

what about the assumption that it completely and utterly destabilized that region? do we ignore that as well?

[Emmanuel]

what about the assumption that it completely and utterly destabilized that region? do we ignore that as well?
of course, that's part of Our second assumption.

[pnkpanther]

I have a nephew in Iraq. I have a good friend whose son lost the use of one arm in Iraq. Both are absolutely in complete support of the war and both believe that we will win as long as the libs don't quit first.

my boy hood friend is in there and says it's clear people higher up have no idea whats going on.

[hannitykillspuppies]

my boy hood friend is in there and says it's clear people higher up have no idea whats going on.obviously a self loathing troop hater.

[pnkpanther]

yes dem's hate american

and they're responsible for the political bitching and back stabbing

teh republicans are fucking angels, they have Jesus on their side

[jcarm22]

The biggest issue was that Germany was allied with Japan. Like Sadam was allied with the bad guys from 9/11.

And don't forget that the official policy of regime change in Iraq was signed by Clinton.
Not true.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001288.html

U.S. and Britain declare war on Japan. Germany and Italy declare war on U.S.; Congress declares war on those countries (Dec. 11).

Germany and Italy declared war on us before we attacked anyone.

http://www.pwhce.org/zarqawi.html

In October 2004, the two groups announced that Zarqawi had pledged bayat to bin Laden, and at-Tawhid wal-Jihad was accepted into the broader al-Qaeda organisation, adopting the name Tanzim Qaedat al-Jihad fi Balad al-Rafidayn, or Al-Qaeda Organisation for Jihad in the Land of the Two Rivers (Iraq).

Al-Qaeda in Iraq didn't officially hitch its trailer to bin Laden until October 2004, over a year and a half later.

Not even close.

[Vegas]

Not true.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001288.html



Germany and Italy declared war on us before we attacked anyone.

http://www.pwhce.org/zarqawi.html



Al-Qaeda in Iraq didn't officially hitch its trailer to bin Laden until October 2004, over a year and a half later.

Not even close.

Germany and Italy may have declared war on us, but they didn't bomb Pearl Harbor did they? And Sadam was absolutely into exporting terrorism before and after 9/11.

[swordfish]

http://www.razorclaw.com/mk-ultra/Humor/goering.jpg

[IBC]

Germany and Italy may have declared war on us, but they didn't bomb Pearl Harbor did they? And Sadam was absolutely into exporting terrorism before and after 9/11.

What role did Saddam play in 9/11?

I will just say again, the ww2 reference is very ridiculous. That is why the only people that use it are Rush and his ilk.

[pnkpanther]

Do you think Iraq is only connection to Al Qaeda? Britian and France set boundaries in mid east, not the countries themselves

That region has been occupied by nearly every empire in history of the world

ALL have failed

[IBC]

Circular logic dives me up the wall.

[Jiddy78]

Germany and Italy may have declared war on us, but they didn't bomb Pearl Harbor did they? And Sadam was absolutely into exporting terrorism before and after 9/11.

Overruled.

[Jiddy78]

Circular logic dives me up the wall.

Yes, but it could be a perfect circle....

[jcarm22]

Germany and Italy may have declared war on us, but they didn't bomb Pearl Harbor did they? And Sadam was absolutely into exporting terrorism before and after 9/11.
No, they didn't attack Pearl Harbor. But wouldn't one country be expected to declare war on a country that had declared war on it?

However, al-Qaeda in Iraq didn't exist until after the US invasion of Iraq. The group that the government has been trying to use as their link to al-Qaeda during Hussein's reign, Ansar al-Islam, was backed directly by the Iranians, and was thus somewhat unlikely to be abetted by Saddam Hussein. Hussein may have aided the organization as a way of keeping Kurds in check, but he also probably used aid there to keep unrest away from Baghdad.

Comparing 300 terrorists to the entire Nazi army is slightly disingenuous.

[Tom Joad]

Someone let me know when there is ACTUAL good news to report.

[pnkpanther]

and vegas, WW2 is a horrible analogy

[Jiddy78]

Overruled.


Or is that sustained? Vegas is owned and squirming on that one either way.

[Jiddy78]

and vegas, WW2 is a horrible analogy


If there is truth that Rush dips into that well, Vegas should know better than draw from him...To shame, my friend...To shame...

Now come on down here and I'll show you his house.

[Vegas]

and vegas, WW2 is a horrible analogy

It's a horrible analogy because it refutes your wrong thinking?

[jcarm22]

It's a horrible analogy because it refutes your wrong thinking?
No, it's a horrible analogy because it was a conventional war, one which doesn't exist in this current "war on terror".

[pnkpanther]

It's a horrible analogy because it refutes your wrong thinking?

no, in is at, they are not similar in the least.

[swordfish]

No, it's a horrible analogy because it was a conventional war, one which doesn't exist in this current "war on terror".

It is a very good analogy in my mind. Hitler used terrorism on his own country to rally support to let him do whatever he wanted. Does anyone not see a parallel to what is going on today. I am not saying that Bush brought down the towers, but he has certainly used the fear to increase his power in our time of weakness. We give Bush a free pass to do almost anything he wants. All because we are scared of people that wipe their ass with a hand.

[jcarm22]

It is a very good analogy in my mind. Hitler used terrorism on his own country to rally support to let him do whatever he wanted. Does anyone not see a parallel to what is going on today. I am not saying that Bush brought down the towers, but he has certainly used the fear to increase his power in our time of weakness. We give Bush a free pass to do almost anything he wants. All because we are scared of people that wipe their ass with a hand.
I don't see a parallel between us going to war with Germany because they declared war on us and us preemptively striking Iraq because there was a regional group fighting Kurds who may have had help from both al-Qaeda and Hussein.

That was more the gist of the analogy that vegas was drawing, as I understood it.

Fear is definitely the most effective way the media and politicians have to influence our thinking, though. I won't argue that point, nor will I argue that this administration has used fear and scare tactics frequently and rather effectively.

[ryr8828]

It is a very good analogy in my mind. Hitler used terrorism on his own country to rally support to let him do whatever he wanted. Does anyone not see a parallel to what is going on today. I am not saying that Bush brought down the towers, but he has certainly used the fear to increase his power in our time of weakness. We give Bush a free pass to do almost anything he wants. All because we are scared of people that wipe their ass with a hand.

Bush has more opposition at this point than any President I can remember.

He's catching it from every direction. Don't tell me that he's being given his way blindly by his party or the other one.

[hannitykillspuppies]

Not true.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001288.html



Germany and Italy declared war on us before we attacked anyone.

http://www.pwhce.org/zarqawi.html



Al-Qaeda in Iraq didn't officially hitch its trailer to bin Laden until October 2004, over a year and a half later.

Not even close.
clearly liberal rag sources.

[hannitykillspuppies]

It's a horrible analogy because it refutes your wrong thinking?

no because it makes no fucking sense.

[swordfish]

Bush has more opposition at this point than any President I can remember.

He's catching it from every direction. Don't tell me that he's being given his way blindly by his party or the other one.

He is following orders. Of course he is catching it from all sides. The Democrats want in power so they have to pound him. The Republicans are trying to save their positions. Bush does not have to run for another term.

[IBC]

Bush has more opposition at this point than any President I can remember.

He's catching it from every direction. Don't tell me that he's being given his way blindly by his party or the other one.

He was given his way and he blew it bad by rolling back civil liberties and starting an illegal war against a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. I see you don't refute those points. You try and make them, then when called on it take off. Later, you will come back and make them again.