Pope: Other denominations not true churches

[KinjaKahn]

Pope: Other denominations not true churches
Benedict issues statement asserting that Jesus established ‘only one church’

MSNBC News Services
Updated: 9:52 a.m. ET July 10, 2007

LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy - Pope Benedict XVI has reasserted the universal primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released Tuesday that says Orthodox churches were defective and that other Christian denominations were not true churches.

Benedict approved a document from his old offices at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith that restates church teaching on relations with other Christians. It was the second time in a week the pope has corrected what he says are erroneous interpretations of the Second Vatican Council, the 1962-65 meetings that modernized the church.

On Saturday, Benedict revisited another key aspect of Vatican II by reviving the old Latin Mass. Traditional Catholics cheered the move, but more liberal ones called it a step back from Vatican II.
Link (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19692094/)

Go Pope!!

[Jiddy78]

A revival of Latin Mass would have made my grandmama a very happy lady.

[LSU]

Go Pope!!


So, does that mean I'm going to Hell for worshipping the wrong way?

[IBC]

So, does that mean I'm going to Hell for worshipping the wrong way?
Yes and yes.

[LSU]

Yes and yes.


Good thing I don't put a lot of stock in the Pope...at least, in this manner.

[Jiddy78]

So, does that mean I'm going to Hell for worshipping the wrong way?

Sarcasm is the devil's weapon.

[LSU]

Sarcasm is the devil's weapon.


We're all sinners.

[IBC]

Well, good one from the ol' Hitler Youth, huh?

[ryr8828]

The last laugh will be on him when he finds out he's the antichrist.

[Jiddy78]

The last laugh will be on him when he finds out he's the antichrist.

You're just jealous because you aren't infallible.

[swordfish]

I would like to see the document where the Catholic Church aligned with the Nazis. You know Jesus was behind it.

[Vegas]

The last laugh will be on him when he finds out he's the antichrist.

That's funny right there.

[jcarm22]

And this is why I'm not a member of the Catholic church (or any church, for that matter). Simple, petty little bullshit becomes divisive, for no reason other than power. Isn't religion supposed to bring us together?

[LSU]

And this is why I'm not a member of the Catholic church (or any church, for that matter). Simple, petty little bullshit becomes divisive, for no reason other than power. Isn't religion supposed to bring us together?



Only if it's done the way I say.

[jcarm22]

Only if it's done the way I say.
http://www.mtbs.com/bkbz/kidwar/02_bg.jpg

[Hotpapa666]

And this is why I'm not a member of the Catholic church (or any church, for that matter). Simple, petty little bullshit becomes divisive, for no reason other than power. Isn't religion supposed to bring us together?

No. It is supposed to subjugate, brainwash and scare the shit out of people. Then they make lots and lots of money and have lots and lots of power. Selling hope to non-critical thinkers is big business, The Bible, Church, Self-help books, Pop-Psychology, motivational speakers,....

[Ed Who?]

Go Pope!!

Actually, it's eerily reminiscent of something a Pharisee would have said.

[Ed Who?]

And this is why I'm not a member of the Catholic church (or any church, for that matter). Simple, petty little bullshit becomes divisive, for no reason other than power. Isn't religion supposed to bring us together?

One thing to remember is that church leadership is human, just like the rest of us. Problem is that their mistakes affect a greater number of people. The petty divisiveness is human nature entering the picture. I'd imagine that the Pope sees the status of his position being eroded, and is trying to reinstate some amount of meaning.

Actually, referring to the antichrist talk, there's a series of apocalyptic books called the "Left Behind" series. In that series, a Pope ends up aligning himself with the man who becomes antichrist, and ends up creating a one-world faith that worships the antichrist. Anyway, just thought I'd drop that into the conversation to see if anyone else has thoughts about this type of stuff.

[Hotpapa666]

One thing to remember is that church leadership is human, just like the rest of us. Problem is that their mistakes affect a greater number of people. The petty divisiveness is human nature entering the picture. I'd imagine that the Pope sees the status of his position being eroded, and is trying to reinstate some amount of meaning.

Actually, referring to the antichrist talk, there's a series of apocalyptic books called the "Left Behind" series. In that series, a Pope ends up aligning himself with the man who becomes antichrist, and ends up creating a one-world faith that worships the antichrist. Anyway, just thought I'd drop that into the conversation to see if anyone else has thoughts about this type of stuff.

The "Left Behind" series is writen to appeal to a fundamentalist audience. OF COURSE, the Pope is cast as the Anti-Christ, he's the guy who they, as Fundamentalists, have rallied against since the foundation of their mega-churches. Who gives a shit? According to Fundies, the Bible is the complete word of "God", there was no Pope in the Bible so, it isn't really a Christian position. The fact that the Bible quotes Jesus as saying, "You are the Rock of my Church", to Peter (which is derived from the Latin Petra, for stone, so Peter is literally the Stone) has no bearing on Papel power, in the Fundie mind.

For some reason Fundies think that THEY have a better understanding of the Bible than centuries of Religious thought and the The Pope, rather than being a good, up right Christian, is the Harbinger of the Four Horseman.

Sounds like a power play to me. But, hey, Religion is free, right, so there is no danger for you and I...

[Ed Who?]

The "Left Behind" series is writen to appeal to a fundamentalist audience. OF COURSE, the Pope is cast as the Anti-Christ, he's the guy who they, as Fundamentalists, have rallied against since the foundation of their mega-churches. Who gives a shit? According to Fundies, the Bible is the complete word of "God", there was no Pope in the Bible so, it isn't really a Christian position. The fact that the Bible quotes Jesus as saying, "You are the Rock of my Church", to Peter (which is derived from the Latin Petra, for stone, so Peter is literally the Stone) has no bearing on Papel power, in the Fundie mind.

For some reason Fundies think that THEY have a better understanding of the Bible than centuries of Religious thought and the The Pope, rather than being a good, up right Christian, is the Harbinger of the Four Horseman.

Sounds like a power play to me. But, hey, Religion is free, right, so there is no danger for you and I...

Peter also denied Jesus three times. He was not infallable.

In no way do I think Pope Benedict is the antichrist or associated with Satan. I do think that the Pope's words about other Christian sects were rather elitist. I think many people in those other veins of the religion look up to him as a leader, and now he's going to create some angst towards himself.

I'm sure by your definition I'd be considered a fundamentalist. I guess that's what you get for thinking about Jesus Christ more than the once a week you're in the pews.

[Hotpapa666]

Peter also denied Jesus three times. He was not infallable.

In no way do I think Pope Benedict is the antichrist or associated with Satan. I do think that the Pope's words about other Christian sects were rather elitist. I think many people in those other veins of the religion look up to him as a leader, and now he's going to create some angst towards himself.

I'm sure by your definition I'd be considered a fundamentalist. I guess that's what you get for thinking about Jesus Christ more than the once a week you're in the pews.


But, why would Jesus leave the world with a less than perfect church? Of course he wouldn't, Jesus wants sublime perfection for us. Why would The Lord and Jesus allow that Church to split? It is his perfect church, why didn't he stop it? Why would Jesus and the Lord allow his/their church to get into such a quandry?

Humanity could resign itself to resolving these issues, or we can wake up and see the absurdity of these assertions.

[LSU]

Peter also denied Jesus three times. He was not infallable.

In no way do I think Pope Benedict is the antichrist or associated with Satan. I do think that the Pope's words about other Christian sects were rather elitist. I think many people in those other veins of the religion look up to him as a leader, and now he's going to create some angst towards himself.

I'm sure by your definition I'd be considered a fundamentalist. I guess that's what you get for thinking about Jesus Christ more than the once a week you're in the pews.



So, would you consider Ryr's comment about the Pope being the antichrist elitist then? Granted, Ryr isn't a religious leader in the same regards as the Pope, but the way it sounded to me was putting one's own religious convictions above those of another.

Which happens quite a bit.

Or maybe I misinterpreted Ryr's intent, and if so, my apologies.

[Ed Who?]

So, would you consider Ryr's comment about the Pope being the antichrist elitist then? Granted, Ryr isn't a religious leader in the same regards as the Pope, but the way it sounded to me was putting one's own religious convictions above those of another.

Which happens quite a bit.

Or maybe I misinterpreted Ryr's intent, and if so, my apologies.

It's not a great comment about the Pope, but then again I doubt half the free world looks up to Ryr as the model of Christianity.

I'm not sure what the Pope's intent was. It sounded pretty extreme to me, with the paraphrase being "all other Christian denominations are heretical" or something of the sort.

I'm thinking Ryr's comment was made in jest.

[LSU]

It's not a great comment about the Pope, but then again I doubt half the free world looks up to Ryr as the model of Christianity.

I'm not sure what the Pope's intent was. It sounded pretty extreme to me, with the paraphrase being "all other Christian denominations are heretical" or something of the sort.

I'm thinking Ryr's comment was made in jest.


I don't disagree with any of that.

My first roommate in college was a Lutheran that ripped the shit out of Catholics and felt I should be executed (not because I'm Catholic, I'm not). Needless to say, there was some tension.

[Hotpapa666]

I don't disagree with any of that.

My first roommate in college was a Lutheran that ripped the shit out of Catholics and felt I should be executed (not because I'm Catholic, I'm not). Needless to say, there was some tension.

When I was battling with Religion I went to church with a Luteran friend who was very religious; it was his church. This was Christmas, my freshman year of college and a church I had been familiar with (been to weddings, had Boy Scouts,...) and for the first time I realized how much the Luterans dislike the Catholics. There was a part of the service that dealt only with a "Us", "Them", indictment of the Catholics. It was very bizzare, made doubly bizzare by some of the lies the preacher-man told. But, truth is no barrier to the religious man.

[Ed Who?]

When I was battling with Religion I went to church with a Luteran friend who was very religious; it was his church. This was Christmas, my freshman year of college and a church I had been familiar with (been to weddings, had Boy Scouts,...) and for the first time I realized how much the Luterans dislike the Catholics. There was a part of the service that dealt only with a "Us", "Them", indictment of the Catholics. It was very bizzare, made doubly bizzare by some of the lies the preacher-man told. But, truth is no barrier to the religious man.

I really don't have a problem with Catholics. I just know my experience would not lead me to the relationship with Jesus I currently have. I know plenty of traditionalists would abhor the church I attend, but contemporary praise and worship music connected with me, when a full childhood of stale hymns didn't.

Personally, I get the impression the Catholic church isn't very welcoming towards visitors. Maybe that's not a fair assessment.

[hannitykillspuppies]

I really don't have a problem with Catholics. I just know my experience would not lead me to the relationship with Jesus I currently have. I know plenty of traditionalists would abhor the church I attend, but contemporary praise and worship music connected with me, when a full childhood of stale hymns didn't.

Personally, I get the impression the Catholic church isn't very welcoming towards visitors. Maybe that's not a fair assessment.i think it's a fair assesment. the catholic church created the cynic that is me. i'm starting to come around though i think.

[LSU]

Personally, I get the impression the Catholic church isn't very welcoming towards visitors. Maybe that's not a fair assessment.


That's been my experience, too, if you're not a Catholic. My nephew and godson was baptized catholic, so I had to go sit through all that. How was I supposed to know that I wasn't supposed to partake in communion?

I was raised Methodist, and that's the church I'm going to now. It's apparently an offshoot of the Catholic Church, and there are apparently things pretty similar here and there (I haven't been to a Catholic Mass, so I don't know for sure all the things) but a lot of the prayers and sayings and stuff.

[LSU]

That's been my experience, too, if you're not a Catholic. My nephew and godson was baptized catholic, so I had to go sit through all that. How was I supposed to know that I wasn't supposed to partake in communion?

I was raised Methodist, and that's the church I'm going to now. It's apparently an offshoot of the Catholic Church, and there are apparently things pretty similar here and there (I haven't been to a Catholic Mass, so I don't know for sure all the things) but a lot of the prayers and sayings and stuff.


To expand on this, my wife was raised Catholic, but hasn't been to church since about middle school. When we started going to the Methodist church, she thought she'd have to do all sorts of stuff to become a member, since she wasn't baptized Methodist. Nope. Nothing of the sort. She was welcomed in with no strings attached. Baptized as a Christian, not a Catholic, and those sorts of things.

She really likes it thus far.

[Hotpapa666]

I really don't have a problem with Catholics. I just know my experience would not lead me to the relationship with Jesus I currently have. I know plenty of traditionalists would abhor the church I attend, but contemporary praise and worship music connected with me, when a full childhood of stale hymns didn't.

Personally, I get the impression the Catholic church isn't very welcoming towards visitors. Maybe that's not a fair assessment.


Those contemporary churches are very good at getting people in the door and once they come in, they are good at keeping them. That's for sure. Today's American doesn't want the sollom respite of a Catholic mass (that was one of the best things about church for about 1500 years, it was long and elaborate, and it was the only time in your waking life you weren't working). Now a days people want blue jeans, electric guitars and being able to see people actively "touched by God".

It is rather sad to me because the Catholic Church is the most intellectual, most rigorous religious org. out there. These super Churches just seem to be "Religion for Dumbies" (I'm not knocking them, I have a Taxes for Dumbies book that is very handy) where serious questions, requiring serious scholarship are cast aside and replaced with "faith", or the fundie idea that the Bible is 100% accurate. Honestly, I'll take a critically thinking Catholic over a load rapping preacher-man any day. But, I'm not the average religious consumer.

[Reagan Smash]

Peter also denied Jesus three times. He was not infallable.

In no way do I think Pope Benedict is the antichrist or associated with Satan. I do think that the Pope's words about other Christian sects were rather elitist. I think many people in those other veins of the religion look up to him as a leader, and now he's going to create some angst towards himself.

I'm sure by your definition I'd be considered a fundamentalist. I guess that's what you get for thinking about Jesus Christ more than the once a week you're in the pews.

I wonder when Jesus got rejected Bill Walton screamed "Rejected, big fella"??

[ryr8828]

It is no stretch at all to interpret Revelations into reading that the Pope will be the antichrist.

[Hotpapa666]

It is no stretch at all to interpret Revelations into reading that the Pope will be the antichrist.

Of course not. The Bible in general and Revelations specifically are logically inconsistent. That being the case, it isn't a stretch for ANYONE to interprete those books to mean that ANYONE is the antichrist. Following an inconsistent book will give inconsistent results. The end result of following a book like the Bible is about as predictable as the end result of any random story that someone has or can create.

[Vegas]

It is no stretch at all to interpret Revelations into reading that the Pope will be the antichrist.

I think it's more likely that the pope (or another prominent religious leader) will be the false prophet.

[Cat in the Hat]

I don't practice actively, but I wonder how the Pope can make such decrees? How can anyone be so sure any of the other denominations of Christianity are fake or not real? I understand the Pope is supposed to be God's direct representative on the earth. However, it seems a Pope is elected and not, "the chosen one." Of course, considering the fact that such paranormal activity or miracle behavior doesn't seem to exist in today's psychology, we must revert to electing a Pope, so-to-speak.

So, me being a Methodist means I'm worshiping a false deity? I'm I now like the Jews, the Taoists, the Muslims, etc. and going to hell? Whatever happened to just being a good God fearing person will get you into the Kingdom of Heaven? That's my firm belief.

Why should it matter how we worship God, Allah, etc? All religions are basically the same. Religion presents the fact that all humans have a disease, and that disease is sinning or doing bad stuff. Religion then tries to blow a bunch of smoke up your ass and tell you how sick you are and that they have the cure. The cure starts out with being able to admit you have a problem and that you want to remedy that problem. You are then presented with a particular set of policies and practices (doctorine) to follow to begin the path toward the cure. The ultimate goal is to absolve your sin and become come one with God or at least be with God. Then religion tells you money needs to be given as worshiping God is not a cheap thing. However, religion really loves the repeat offenders. The more you sin, the more you have a reason to go to church/synagogue/mosque and worship God.

As far as I'm concerned, as long as I have a relationship with God (public or private) and live to be a good person and help others, I will end up in heaven. No matter what the Pope thinks.