God

[mosaic]

How do you see him? Or her? Or it.

[FatDumbOxycontinAbuser]

I'll believe it when I see it or it can be proven to exist through Science.

[hannitykillspuppies]

How do you see him? Or her? Or it.duh
http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00026/barack_obama_26712t.jpg

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

I'll believe it when I see it or it can be proven to exist through Science. Excellent.

Another soul for the devil.

:rolleyes:

[thrasymachus]

Excellent.

Another soul for the devil.

:rolleyes:
At least you know you won't be alone ;)

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

At least you know you won't be alone ;) I certainly won't be down there. ;)


On a more serious note, it astounds me when people show off their hubris that it's God's job to show himself to us for proof positive that He exists..and do so through science.

If a person is an atheist, so be it. Own that. Don't make excuses that God never showed himself to you therefore you had nothing to believe in. And BTW, if you aren't a believer when you're here, God's not going to show himself to you and then give you time to exclaim, "I believe!!" right before he sends your soul down the poop chute.

[thrasymachus]

I certainly won't be down there. ;)


On a more serious note, it astounds me when people show off their hubris that it's God's job to show himself to us for proof positive that He exists..and do so through science.

If a person is an atheist, so be it. Own that. Don't make excuses that God never showed himself to you therefore you had nothing to believe in. And BTW, if you aren't a believer when you're here, God's not going to show himself to you and then give you time to exclaim, "I believe!!" right before he sends your soul down the poop chute.
I find atheists to often be more idiotic than believers a lot of the time. It seems pretty absurd to me that a person would mock people for believing in god without evidence but then turn around and state with certainty that god does not exist, without any evidence.

Agnostics? Ok, I see where they're coming from. Atheists? Not sure I can reconcile their conflicting views.

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

My dad was an agnostic for a great many years (even prior to my birth) and i grew up living with it.

When he refused to take part in my Baptism (I was Baptized at 12), the Monsignor called him into his office and basically set him straight about parental participation regardless of whether that parent 'believed' or not.

I honestly think that that Monsignor was the one guy who could get through to my dad and get him to see this side of faith and spirituality.

Years later- and without many knowing- my dad got Baptized and joined the Catholic Church. He used to slip off to Bible study which was led by the parents of a guy i didn't exactly get along with in HS. (The parents and siblings of this guy were great; this idiot kid, not so).

He died not long afterward and i have no doubt he's in Heaven.

He just needed to have his eyes opened to faith.

[FatDumbOxycontinAbuser]

Excellent.

Another soul for the devil.

:rolleyes:


No not the devil! I was hoping the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy was going to claim my soul.

[FatDumbOxycontinAbuser]

Honestly, I don't deny the possibility of some sort of "higher being." I guess the real question is if there is indeed a "God", what religion, if any, has it right.

[Jiddy78]

You know how you know somebody is a narcissistic douche? They think that another person going to hell is "excellent."

We really have to find a way to have quote boxes put up the ignore block as well. C'MON old man and Roy.

[Emmanuel]

How do you see him? Or her? Or it.
I have a slot open next Tuesday at 2136 GMT. Cook a tortilla and I shall reveal Myself.

[kydoty]

In the beginning, God created the Heavens and Earth...and then after Christ's ascension let the chips fall where they may.

I have very little reason to believe that he interferes with people's lives for better or worse. How else do you explain that two of the most God following people I've ever known died at the ages of 17 (car accident) and 26 (cancer), meanwhile agnostic assholes like me continue to live their lives healthy as can be. There's way too much inconsistency.

[Emmanuel]

In the beginning, God created the Heavens and Earth...and then after Christ's ascension let the chips fall where they may.

I have very little reason to believe that he interferes with people's lives for better or worse. How else do you explain that two of the most God following people I've ever known died at the ages of 17 (car accident) and 26 (cancer), meanwhile agnostic assholes like me continue to live their lives healthy as can be. There's way too much inconsistency.
How is it inconsistent? Wouldn't you want to go to Paradise earlier?

[kydoty]

How is it inconsistent? Wouldn't you want to go to Paradise earlier?

I think my sister-in-law would have rather been able to watch her baby son grow up and accept heaven 50 to 60 years later rather than leave her husband and son behind while melanoma is destroying her from the inside. I had to watch her slowly die everyday. No human deserves to suffer like that, especially those who followed the word of God as much as she did.

[Emmanuel]

I think my sister-in-law would have rather been able to watch her baby son grow up and accept heaven 50 to 60 years later rather than leave her husband and son behind while melanoma is destroying her from the inside. I had to watch her slowly die everyday. No human deserves to suffer like that, especially those who followed the word of God as much as she did.
Right, but as you said you are agnostic. I would think those that preach the Word would take joy in knowing a loved one is in a better place.

[Jiddy78]

I think my sister-in-law would have rather been able to watch her baby son grow up and accept heaven 50 to 60 years later rather than leave her husband and son behind while melanoma is destroying her from the inside. I had to watch her slowly die everyday. No human deserves to suffer like that, especially those who followed the word of God as much as she did.

"When Bad Things Happen to Good People"

[mosaic]

Hm.

So Jhg is a bible thumper? And Hkp is a blapshemer.

Sounds about right.

And Jiddy is, well, Jiddy, not big surprise there..

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

Hm.

So Jhg is a bible thumper? And Hkp is a blapshemer.

Sounds about right.

And Jiddy is, well, Jiddy, not big surprise there.. Jiddy fails to understand/comprehend sarcasm online....even with the rolleyes emoticon posted right after. :rolleyes:

Maybe he should build a box around that..??

[mosaic]

Jiddy fails to understand/comprehend sarcasm online....even with the rolleyes emoticon posted right after. :rolleyes:

Maybe he should build a box around that..??



A quote box?

[hannitykillspuppies]

Hm.

So Jhg is a bible thumper? And Hkp is a blapshemer.

Sounds about right.

And Jiddy is, well, Jiddy, not big surprise there..if you say so.

[mosaic]

if you say so.

Obama = God? Really? Thats not blasphemy?

[hannitykillspuppies]

Obama = God? Really? Thats not blasphemy?
well, if you assume i was being serious, then yes i guess it would be.

[mosaic]

well, if you assume i was being serious, then yes i guess it would be.

You werent being serious? Well shit.

[domenick2x]

Jiddy fails to understand/comprehend sarcasm online....even with the rolleyes emoticon posted right after. :rolleyes:

Maybe he should build a box around that..??
At some point, the repetition is indecipherable from nonsensical babble.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

At some point, the repetition is indecipherable from nonsensical babble.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: At some point he should grow a pair and stop holding his hands over his ears while making loud humming sounds.

[domenick2x]

At some point he should grow a pair and stop holding his hands over his ears while making loud humming sounds.
That could help too.

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

That could help too. Seeing as Moses even got that i was joking around in my reply to Fat- and replied with a quip of his own to me- maybe Jiddy should get the whole story and not just what appears in a quote box. Conversations/discussions tend to go better that way.

[domenick2x]

Seeing as Moses even got that i was joking around in my reply to Fat- and replied with a quip of his own to me- maybe Jiddy should get the whole story and not just what appears in a quote box. Conversations/discussions tend to go better that way.
No disagreement from me on that. Thus my sig.

[mosaic]

Would god appreciate this banter?

[domenick2x]

Would god appreciate this banter?
Depends on God's sense of humor.

*looks at some of the people around here*

Clearly, his sense of humor isn't lacking.

[mosaic]

Depends on God's sense of humor.

*looks at some of the people around here*

Clearly, his sense of humor isn't lacking.

Whats your view of God, dom?

[domenick2x]

Whats your view of God, dom?
Depends on what you want to focus on.

I'm Christian, but lean a bit towards the Deist view.

[mosaic]

Depends on what you want to focus on.

I'm Christian, but lean a bit towards the Deist view.

I mean as a general overview. Not just God but his 'kingdom' of heaven, and "satan" and hell. Is there an after life? Is there something else? Reincarnation?

Or do you follow what youre TOLD in the bible, being a practicing Christian who DOES NOT stray from what he's told to believe?

[domenick2x]

I mean as a general overview. Not just God but his 'kingdom' of heaven, and "satan" and hell. Is there an after life? Is there something else? Reincarnation?

Or do you follow what youre TOLD in the bible, being a practicing Christian who DOES NOT stray from what he's told to believe?
Well, that's complex. Gotta put some kids to bed right now. If I can get back to this soon, I'll post some thoughts. Might not be until tomorrow though.

As a start, I do not believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible. Do a search here for 'Godzilla'.

[mosaic]

As a start, I do not believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible. Do a search here for 'Godzilla'.

Too many ppl do. And thats the problem with Christianity. Too many of its ppl interpret it literally and get one skewed ass view on religion.

[ryr8828]

I will keep my relationship with God and his son Jesus Christ. The rest of you may argue amongst yourselves.

[mosaic]

I will keep my relationship with God and his son Jesus Christ. The rest of you may argue amongst yourselves.

Afraid of your inner most demons and views?

[ryr8828]

Afraid of your inner most demons and views?

No.

[mosaic]

No.

Im not asking that anyone divulge the inner most feelings about God and what they talk to Him about, Im just asking how you view God and the "life he's given us" as a whole.

But if you dont want to share, perhaps that is your perogative. Just makes you look weak and unknowledgable on the subject. That could very be the case, idfk.

[ryr8828]

Im not asking that anyone divulge the inner most feelings about God and what they talk to Him about, Im just asking how you view God and the "life he's given us" as a whole.

But if you dont want to share, perhaps that is your perogative. Just makes you look weak and unknowledgable on the subject. That could very be the case, idfk.

Or it could be that I just choose to not take the time to fuck with your abstract question.

I'm not bound by contract to reply to every post on this board.

[mosaic]

Or it could be that I just choose to not take the time to fuck with your abstract question.

I'm not bound by contract to reply to every post on this board.

Youre still missing my point. Im not demanding that you answer. But by replying (as you are not so bound to do, admitted at your own volition) to this and NOT address your beliefs, it doesnt paint you in a positive light. Or a knowledgable one either.

Am i the almight knower of knowledgable? Fuck no, but for someone who has little faith in ppl, humanity, and His creation, I can still discuss it. Does that MAKE me knowledgable? ABSOLUTELY not, but its definitely a step in the right direction. As opposed to seeing someone else address the topic, and than replying "My relationship is my relationship, you can 'argue' as you may" ...... you dont see how that COULD make you look a little close-minded and uneducated? Or at least unwilling to reason on the subject....

[Iron Jaw]

How do you see him? Or her? Or it.

The Almighty - the creator of the Heavens and the Earth.

[mosaic]

The Almighty - the creator of the Heavens and the Earth.

Was looking for a little more open, but thats a start. Do YOU follow the bible and its every last word?

[thrasymachus]

Youre still missing my point. Im not demanding that you answer. But by replying (as you are not so bound to do, admitted at your own volition) to this and NOT address your beliefs, it doesnt paint you in a positive light. Or a knowledgable one either.

Am i the almight knower of knowledgable? Fuck no, but for someone who has little faith in ppl, humanity, and His creation, I can still discuss it. Does that MAKE me knowledgable? ABSOLUTELY not, but its definitely a step in the right direction. As opposed to seeing someone else address the topic, and than replying "My relationship is my relationship, you can 'argue' as you may" ...... you dont see how that COULD make you look a little close-minded and uneducated? Or at least unwilling to reason on the subject....

Here's a question: can you really reason on the subject, anyway? Do people use their rationality in determining that god exists? Or is there something else driving them to hold such beliefs?

[ryr8828]

Youre still missing my point. Im not demanding that you answer. But by replying (as you are not so bound to do, admitted at your own volition) to this and NOT address your beliefs, it doesnt paint you in a positive light. Or a knowledgable one either.

Am i the almight knower of knowledgable? Fuck no, but for someone who has little faith in ppl, humanity, and His creation, I can still discuss it. Does that MAKE me knowledgable? ABSOLUTELY not, but its definitely a step in the right direction. As opposed to seeing someone else address the topic, and than replying "My relationship is my relationship, you can 'argue' as you may" ...... you dont see how that COULD make you look a little close-minded and uneducated? Or at least unwilling to reason on the subject....

The one thing that I haven't done is miss your point. I may grow tired of you talking down to me, at which point our discussion will definitely come to an end.

[mosaic]

Here's a question: can you really reason on the subject, anyway? Do people use their rationality in determining that god exists? Or is there something else driving them to hold such beliefs?

There are ALL SORTS of beliefs, driven by whatever drives you to believe. You can absolutely reason. Its better than shoving your beliefs down someones throat. Thats the difference between being unreasonable and uneducated.

A normal person uses rationality. Someone so caught up in their own beliefs does not use rationality. Hence irrationality....

[mosaic]

The one thing that I haven't done is miss your point. I may grow tired of you talking down to me, at which point our discussion will definitely come to an end.

Im not talking down to you. Just calling a spade a spade. Youre the big boss, so if that offends you, Ill stop. Sorry my point came across as "putting you down", at least kno that that WASN'T my intention.

[ryr8828]

Im not talking down to you. Just calling a spade a spade. Youre the big boss, so if that offends you, Ill stop. Sorry my point came across as "putting you down", at least kno that that WASN'T my intention.

I'm going to bed. Just so you know, I had a lot of respect for you. I've lost some of that.

[KinjaKahn]

Im not asking that anyone divulge the inner most feelings about God and what they talk to Him about, Im just asking how you view God and the "life he's given us" as a whole.

But if you dont want to share, perhaps that is your perogative. Just makes you look weak and unknowledgable on the subject. That could very be the case, idfk.
Actually it makes you look unknowledgeable... no one knows what God is or is not, God is the essence of Faith, so assuming someone "weak and unknowledgable" is little more than you justifying your own preconceived notion. This thread is seems to be little more than you looking to match wits with those you hope to preach your version of the "truth" to. Am I to suppose you are a follower of Nietzsche?? If so I have no reason to even entertain the thought of debating with one of his anti-community anti-morality minions. His mind failed him... following his psycho babble will cause yours to do the same. Join life. Be happy with what is and dont dwell on what is not. Nietzsche was a self important elitist douchebag.

[domenick2x]

Too many ppl do. And thats the problem with Christianity. Too many of its ppl interpret it literally and get one skewed ass view on religion.
I don't generally agree with those who literally interpret the Bible, because there are many contradictions within. As such, you either have to manufacture some way to reconcile them or you end up cherry picking the parts you want.

I believe wholeheartedly in a creator. I used to teach HS Physics, and during one class I was asked how science and God reconciled in my views. I explained that these were my personal views, but I cannot personally believe that randomness and chaos could come together and create such a beautiful thing as a blade of grass.

The kids snickered. So I sent a student into the yard to pull a few blades, and we looked at the structure and the form. Take the smallest, most inconsequential piece of creation, and look deeply into it...

As for the Bible, it was written by mankind, for mankind - as a path of travel. It's been interpreted and reinterpreted. I cannot consider it to be the literal words of God, but more of an 'inspired work'. Particular attention has to be paid (imo) to the anthropological reasons for certain parts (particularly the rules in the first few books). Without the context of the time period, you miss a lot of the miracle.

Jesus? I believe that he was the Son of God. I believe that miracles did occur - but the miracles were generally not the ones literally described. That's okay.

I don't believe that God is actively involved in his creation from day to day. He's more of a motivating, underlying force. Miracles today are small ones - ones more driven by man following the teachings than by God. That doesn't make them any less miraculous.

Hell? There are versions of it in almost every religion. Heaven likewise. I don't have to believe in either as a 'place'. I lean more towards the idea that heaven is being 'with God' and hell is being 'apart from God'.

[thrasymachus]

Actually it makes you look unknowledgeable... no one knows what God is or is not, God is the essence of Faith, so assuming someone "weak and unknowledgable" is little more than you justifying your own preconceived notion. This thread is seems to be little more than you looking to match wits with those you hope to preach your version of the "truth" to. Am I to suppose you are a follower of Nietzsche?? If so I have no reason to even entertain the thought of debating with one of his anti-community anti-morality minions. His mind failed him... following his psycho babble will cause yours to do the same. Join life. Be happy with what is and dont dwell on what is not. Nietzsche was a self important elitist douchebag.

So Nietzsche would have voted for Obama.

[mosaic]

Actually it makes you look unknowledgeable... no one knows what God is or is not, God is the essence of Faith, so assuming someone "weak and unknowledgable" is little more than you justifying your own preconceived notion. This thread is seems to be little more than you looking to match wits with those you hope to preach your version of the "truth" to. Am I to suppose you are a follower of Nietzsche?? If so I have no reason to even entertain the thought of debating with one of his anti-community anti-morality minions. His mind failed him... following his psycho babble will cause yours to do the same. Join life. Be happy with what is and dont dwell on what is not. Nietzsche was a self important elitist douchebag.

If my intention was to force my opinion on others, would I have SIMPLY asked a question, or would I have blatantly done what you just said.

Weak and unknowledgable can also be encompassed with someone who lumps one in with a crowd bcus HE doesn't agree with those beliefs, just so you kno.

Debate with me, or dont, its no matter to me. Would I like to discuss this? Absolutely. Do i intend on forcing my beliefs on anyone else? Considering I dont have a concrete set of beliefs and part of the REASON for this thread was to open MY OWN eyes a little, Im gonna go with a big fat NO.

[mosaic]

I don't generally agree with those who literally interpret the Bible, because there are many contradictions within. As such, you either have to manufacture some way to reconcile them or you end up cherry picking the parts you want.

I believe wholeheartedly in a creator. I used to teach HS Physics, and during one class I was asked how science and God reconciled in my views. I explained that these were my personal views, but I cannot personally believe that randomness and chaos could come together and create such a beautiful thing as a blade of grass.

The kids snickered. So I sent a student into the yard to pull a few blades, and we looked at the structure and the form. Take the smallest, most inconsequential piece of creation, and look deeply into it...

As for the Bible, it was written by mankind, for mankind - as a path of travel. It's been interpreted and reinterpreted. I cannot consider it to be the literal words of God, but more of an 'inspired work'. Particular attention has to be paid (imo) to the anthropological reasons for certain parts (particularly the rules in the first few books). Without the context of the time period, you miss a lot of the miracle.

Jesus? I believe that he was the Son of God. I believe that miracles did occur - but the miracles were generally not the ones literally described. That's okay.

I don't believe that God is actively involved in his creation from day to day. He's more of a motivating, underlying force. Miracles today are small ones - ones more driven by man following the teachings than by God. That doesn't make them any less miraculous.

Hell? There are versions of it in almost every religion. Heaven likewise. I don't have to believe in either as a 'place'. I lean more towards the idea that heaven is being 'with God' and hell is being 'apart from God'.

Would you agree that those who MISinterpret the bible can still be classified as servants of His will? Of his creation?

[domenick2x]

Would you agree that those who MISinterpret the bible can still be classified as servants of His will? Of his creation?
I believe wholeheartedly in free will. I don't think that God directs us, so nobody is an 'instrument'.

[mosaic]

I believe wholeheartedly in free will. I don't think that God directs us, so nobody is an 'instrument'.

So you in fact dont follow the bible at all, do you?

[thrasymachus]

So I'll actually state my views on the subject. I believe primarily in deism. I believe god exists because it it what makes sense to me.

However, I don't think god intervenes in everyday life. Maybe here and there throughout the history of time when absolutely necessary. Maybe not. But on a daily basis, he does nothing.

So he exists. And when we die? I like to think of it as being similar to how Hindus interpret the universe. We are all part of the same thing, and when we die, we lose most our individual form and revert back to that thing.

[thrasymachus]

So you in fact dont follow the bible at all, do you?
Does the Bible say anything decisively about predestination?

[Iron Jaw]

Was looking for a little more open, but thats a start. Do YOU follow the bible and its every last word?

I follow the New Testament. I believe that Jesus is the key to eternal life.

I look at the Old Testament as the history of Christian roots in Judaism, and the New Testament as the fulfillment.

If you are asking me if I believe the literal creation as is written in Genesis, that would depend upon how literal you want to get. The creation of man? How long of a process was it? How many eons did it take? Heaven is a place without time limits, so there is no way mankind can accurately answer the question. Was the process of evolution used to create mankind? Certainly God could have done it that way.

[mosaic]

Maybe here and there throughout the history of time when absolutely necessary.

And what constitutes as "absolutely necessary"? Shouldnt it have been absolutely necessary to stop 9/11? Or how about the rape, incest, destruction caused on a daily basis? Or is that part of the whole "He gave us free will" schpeel that ppl seem to throw up as a guard when asked the same question? I dont buy into THAT, cus why would he want to see so much pain, anguish and turmoil in HIS CREATION, without trying to intervene?

[mosaic]

Does the Bible say anything decisively about predestination?

Hard to say. The servants of the church have done a pretty good job of skewing that outlook for me.

[thrasymachus]

And what constitutes as "absolutely necessary"? Shouldnt it have been absolutely necessary to stop 9/11? Or how about the rape, incest, destruction caused on a daily basis? Or is that part of the whole "He gave us free will" schpeel that ppl seem to throw up as a guard when asked the same question? I dont buy into THAT, cus why would he want to see so much pain, anguish and turmoil in HIS CREATION, without trying to intervene?
None of that would be absolutely necessary -- but I can't say what exactly constitutes necessity. God would probably know.

[thrasymachus]

Hard to say. The servants of the church have done a pretty good job of skewing that outlook for me.
It's pretty clear from the Old Testament and New Testament that predestination is bullshit, to me.

Exhibit 1: God makes a deal with the devil saying Job will still believe in God even after the devil does a bunch of terrible stuff to Job. If free will did not exist and predestination existed, the devil would never make such a bet because God would know the outcome -- unless the devil is a complete moron, which other depictions of him would contradict.

Exhibit 2: If predestination is true, then people have no control of their own actions -- it's all a farce. So God would be punishing people for things that he predestined to happen. That's kind of ridiculous. Not to mention, if predestination is true, then God must be one sick individual.

[mosaic]

None of that would be absolutely necessary -- but I can't say what exactly constitutes necessity. God would probably know.

Im not asking if God would kno, Im asking for YOUR interpretation. :D

[thrasymachus]

Im not asking if God would kno, Im asking for YOUR interpretation. :D
I just told you. I don't know.

[KinjaKahn]

If my intention was to force my opinion on others, would I have SIMPLY asked a question, or would I have blatantly done what you just said.

Weak and unknowledgable can also be encompassed with someone who lumps one in with a crowd bcus HE doesn't agree with those beliefs, just so you kno.

Debate with me, or dont, its no matter to me. Would I like to discuss this? Absolutely. Do i intend on forcing my beliefs on anyone else? Considering I dont have a concrete set of beliefs and part of the REASON for this thread was to open MY OWN eyes a little, Im gonna go with a big fat NO.
Seeing "hope to preach your version of the "truth" to." and reading then equating or interpreting it to "force my" leaves little wiggle room.Interpreting silence as "Weak and unknowledgable" reveals the path your course is set to.,... to be open and knowledgeable one would also have to consider that ones faith in what he doesn't or cannot comprehend could be stoic in the face of your impending assault on faith, and not weak at all.

But... to explain simply... God is the origin of force and motion, and all that is and is not.

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

Depends on what you want to focus on.

I'm Christian, but lean a bit towards the Deist view. Ohh no, another right-to-left epiphany of yours???


:D

[mosaic]

Seeing "hope to preach your version of the "truth" to." and reading then equating or interpreting it to "force my" leaves little wiggle room.Interpreting silence as "Weak and unknowledgable" reveals the path your course is set to.,... to be open and knowledgeable one would also have to consider that ones faith in what he doesn't or cannot comprehend could be stoic in the face of your impending assault on faith, and not weak at all.

But... to explain simply... God is the origin of force and motion, and all that is and is not.

I dont have a version of the truth. Neither do you. Neither does the church or its servants. Anyone who claims to have a version of the "truth" in this matter is beyond close-minded.

[mosaic]

It's pretty clear from the Old Testament and New Testament that predestination is bullshit, to me.

Exhibit 1: God makes a deal with the devil saying Job will still believe in God even after the devil does a bunch of terrible stuff to Job. If free will did not exist and predestination existed, the devil would never make such a bet because God would know the outcome -- unless the devil is a complete moron, which other depictions of him would contradict.

Exhibit 2: If predestination is true, then people have no control of their own actions -- it's all a farce. So God would be punishing people for things that he predestined to happen. That's kind of ridiculous. Not to mention, if predestination is true, then God must be one sick individual.

So you take predestination as 100% set in stone? So this is how you view predestination; Steve sits down with God, before he is incarnated, and blow by blow determined EVERY move of your life.

Predestination, to me, is sitting down before incarnation and mapping out situations. Obviously we all have free-will. I think predestination is to more or less determine the path you lead. Not the decisions you make. I guess thats where the hang up is between you and I.

[thrasymachus]

So you take predestination as 100% set in stone? So this is how you view predestination; Steve sits down with God, before he is incarnated, and blow by blow determined EVERY move of your life.

Predestination, to me, is sitting down before incarnation and mapping out situations. Obviously we all have free-will. I think predestination is to more or less determine the path you lead. Not the decisions you make. I guess thats where the hang up is between you and I.
Doesn't really matter to me which view is taken -- I still don't think predestination is true at all.

[domenick2x]

So you in fact dont follow the bible at all, do you?
Incorrect. But as I said before, I don't read the Bible as a literal truth.

[mosaic]

Doesn't really matter to me which view is taken -- I still don't think predestination is true at all.

What about reincarnation? How about, the after-life?

[mosaic]

Incorrect. But as I said before, I don't read the Bible as a literal truth.

Do you use the bible as a guideline at all? Cus it seems as tho youre not one who really even pays attention to it. From what Ive seen so far, your views dont seem to follow the bible even remotely, but that could be the fact that I havent picked up a bible in quite a while, so my view may not be all that truthful or all that I remember....

[Peter for President]

I guess what I'd ask from people is, "Where did everything come from? Is it easier to believe in a god or is easier to believe all the material in the universe came from absolutely nowhere?"

Personally, it is impossible for me to believe that the material in the big bang just materialized out of nothing. At some point in time, there had to be simply nothing. You can't even really call it emptiness because that wasn't even there. There was no time, there was no space, and there were no elements. Where did they come from?

[mosaic]

I guess what I'd ask from people is, "Where did everything come from? Is it easier to believe in a god or is easier to believe all the material in the universe came from absolutely nowhere?"

Personally, it is impossible for me to believe that the material in the big bang just materialized out of nothing. At some point in time, there had to be simply nothing. You can't even really call it emptiness because that wasn't even there. There was no time, there was no space, and there were no elements. Where did they come from?

If there was nothing, how do you account for God? What did He have to work with?

[thejerseydevil]

I grew up strongly Catholic (grades 1-8 catholic school, 7+ yrs as alter boy and heavily involved with church). After having it forced down my throat as a kid, I'm not too religious now.

Anyone see the movie "Religulous"? That's pretty much how I feel.

[thejerseydevil]

If there was nothing, how do you account for God? What did He have to work with?

How do you explain dinosaurs?

God was doing a trial run on what would be at the top of the food chain?

[thejerseydevil]

Depends on what you want to focus on.

I'm Christian, but lean a bit towards the Deist view.

Same here.

I still feel good after attending a rare church service (or even confessional) but I'm sure that's psychological because I was conditioned as a kid.

[Peter for President]

If there was nothing, how do you account for God? What did He have to work with?
Certainly a fair point. Where did God come from? Based on the assumptions you would make of God, he wouldn't necessarily need anything to work with. But where he came from is very fair.

[mosaic]

How do you explain dinosaurs?

God was doing a trial run on what would be at the top of the food chain?

But God was first, no? He started everything we kno today. What did he start with? Was God the one who came up with this whole view of society, humanity and so on? Is His creation, in every literal sense of the word, HIS creation? He thought up humans? Every body part? Everything in the world?

Did God develop the Theory of Evolution? Since he seems to have started everything, from scratch no less, is the Theory of Evolution His? Did He GIVE that to someone?

[thejerseydevil]

Did God develop the Theory of Evolution? Since he seems to have started everything, from scratch no less, is the Theory of Evolution His? Did He GIVE that to someone?

I could buy God created evolution.

But dinosaurs existence and extinction prior to humans is the better question.

[Peter for President]

I could buy God created evolution.

But dinosaurs existence and extinction prior to humans is the better question.
What is the question?

And no one has any thoughts on what created everything in the beginning. Where did it all come from?

[mosaic]

I could buy God created evolution.

But dinosaurs existence and extinction prior to humans is the better question.

God makes mistakes, no? He still does, imo. Psycopaths, sociopaths, those are HUGE mistakes. Those ppl ruin lives, their own and others. Equate that to dinosaurs. Dinosaurs as a whole were a mistake, a mistake God apparently learned from.

I guess I would venture to say that Gods biggest mistake was giving mankind and every last one of his creatures 100% carte blanche, free will. I would even venture to say that its ruined humanity.

[mosaic]

What is the question?

And no one has any thoughts on what created everything in the beginning. Where did it all come from?

My best explanation is the Big Bang. Someone had to have initiated the Big Bang tho, so the simplest explanation was that God, in all his power and wisdom, had a vision. Equate it to Windows Updates. Or actually, the Windows jump from 95 to XP. God had his vision, from scratch, and Big Bang is OUR explanation to how HE started everything.

[thejerseydevil]

God makes mistakes, no? He still does, imo. Psycopaths, sociopaths, those are HUGE mistakes. Those ppl ruin lives, their own and others. Equate that to dinosaurs. Dinosaurs as a whole were a mistake, a mistake God apparently learned from.

I guess I would venture to say that Gods biggest mistake was giving mankind and every last one of his creatures 100% carte blanche, free will. I would even venture to say that its ruined humanity.

I suppose if God preferred to be worshiped, it was a mistake not to just give solid evidence there would be only one religion.

[mosaic]

I suppose if God preferred to be worshiped, it was a mistake not to just give solid evidence there would be only one religion.

IF God preferred to be worshipped? Is there evidence for or against whether He does or doesnt?

You have free will, do you ALWAYS do the right thing? Or even feel compelled to do the right thing, and do the wrong thing anyway?

Without free will, or with LESS free will, there would be less catastrophe, less mayhem, less dysfunction.

[mosaic]

IF God preferred to be worshipped? Is there evidence for or against whether He does or doesnt?

You have free will, do you ALWAYS do the right thing? Or even feel compelled to do the right thing, and do the wrong thing anyway?

Without free will, or with LESS free will, there would be less catastrophe, less mayhem, less dysfunction.

The point Im driving at is how could someone create something so majestic and beautiful, but do something to ensure its destruction eventually?

If you were to build a $2mil mansion in Hurricane alley, would you not be furious when mother nature tore that bitch to the ground? Same idea with Gods 'creation'...

[MTVike]

And what constitutes as "absolutely necessary"? Shouldnt it have been absolutely necessary to stop 9/11? Or how about the rape, incest, destruction caused on a daily basis? Or is that part of the whole "He gave us free will" schpeel that ppl seem to throw up as a guard when asked the same question? I dont buy into THAT, cus why would he want to see so much pain, anguish and turmoil in HIS CREATION, without trying to intervene?

Suffering is part of life. Without it, we wouldn't be able to appreciate it's absence, which is what some people refer to as "happiness".

I don't know about heaven, but life here is defined by polarities: There is no black without white, no beauty without ugliness, and no pleasure without pain.

You can also take Shakespeare's view: There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking that makes it so.

[thejerseydevil]

IF God preferred to be worshipped? Is there evidence for or against whether He does or doesnt?

There is obviously little no evidence about anything when talking about religion.

But don't most humans believe God should be worshiped which is why organized religions are so popular?

[mosaic]

There is obviously little no evidence about anything when talking about religion.

But don't most humans believe God should be worshiped which is why organized religions are so popular?

You were the one who said you were predisposed to religion and the church from an early age? Were you taught in CCD and Catholic school and in church to WORSHIP God? Or fear Him? Or respect Him?

Organized religion is popular bcus its a fallacy that ppl like to grasp to. They find what suits their mind and vision, and follow that "organization".

ALL religion is fallacy. Bcus not a single person on this earth can/should claim to kno how it started and its true orientation. There are only perceptions, so in that respect, youre right.

[Peter for President]

My best explanation is the Big Bang. Someone had to have initiated the Big Bang tho, so the simplest explanation was that God, in all his power and wisdom, had a vision. Equate it to Windows Updates. Or actually, the Windows jump from 95 to XP. God had his vision, from scratch, and Big Bang is OUR explanation to how HE started everything.
The question was posed pre-Big Bang, but I guess you kind of get to that.

[mosaic]

The question was posed pre-Big Bang, but I guess you kind of get to that.

Theres no possible way to address anything pre-Big Bang. Other than God Himself got a mold of clay and started fucking around. Anything short of that is merely speculation.

[Peter for President]

Theres no possible way to address anything pre-Big Bang. Other than God Himself got a mold of clay and started fucking around. Anything short of that is merely speculation.
That's pretty much my point.

[KinjaKahn]

LOL one would have to be superior to God to judge an action of God an error. Inferiors do not judge superiors. Blasphemers.

[mosaic]

LOL one would have to be superior to God to judge an action of God an error. Inferiors do not judge superiors. Blasphemers.

Instead of name calling, why dont you DISCUSS (novel idea, I kno) the comment.

Doesnt the rule state "attack the post, not the poster", something or other? How can you call me a blasphemer bcus I stated my opinion on a matter you havent argued. Unless you refer to name-calling as arguing.

[mosaic]

Instead of name calling, why dont you DISCUSS (novel idea, I kno) the comment.

Doesnt the rule state "attack the post, not the poster", something or other? How can you call me a blasphemer bcus I stated my opinion on a matter you havent argued. Unless you refer to name-calling as arguing.

...... No please, Kinja, condense your illustrious comments and gospel down to a small sample size!

[Roy Munson]

Who?

[Emmanuel]

Who?
I cover all bases.

[Roy Munson]

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." - Thomas Jefferson

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

Who? Yup.

I laughed.

Twice.