View Full Version : Who determines the price of gasoline?
Vegas
03-23-2007, 03:56 PM
I'm referring to the price at the pump.
Vegas
03-23-2007, 03:58 PM
Democrats?
They may have more than a little to do with the amount of taxes included in the pump price (as do the Republicans).
They may have more than a little to do with the amount of taxes included in the pump price (as do the Republicans).
Well, I do know that higher prices equal higher profits.
My answer to what I believe is somewhat of a trick question is:
the consumers.
Because of supply and demand. Consumers use less, the price goes down. Consumers use more, the price goes up.
ryr8828
03-23-2007, 04:15 PM
My answer to what I believe is somewhat of a trick question is:
the consumers.
Because of supply and demand. Consumers use less, the price goes down. Consumers use more, the price goes up.
Artificial supply and demand is also imposed by OPEC. I hope all those greedy bastards rot in hell.
Artificial supply and demand is also imposed by OPEC. I hope all those greedy bastards rot in hell.
Yes, I would rather we didn't have to buy from them, but we still do. At least until we find alternative energy sources.
Vegas
03-23-2007, 05:09 PM
Yes, I would rather we didn't have to buy from them, but we still do. At least until we find alternative energy sources.
I agree that we buy far too much foreign oil. The biggest impediment to change that situation is the people who don't want to drill for more oil in the USA.
Vegas
03-23-2007, 05:11 PM
My answer to what I believe is somewhat of a trick question is:
the consumers.
Because of supply and demand. Consumers use less, the price goes down. Consumers use more, the price goes up.
I didn't at all mean it as a trick question. I believe that gas prices are set by the market. Prices definitely go up when demand increases.
I didn't at all mean it as a trick question. I believe that gas prices are set by the market. Prices definitely go up when demand increases.
I viewed it as a trick because the first inclination by everyone, I would think, would be the people that sell it or the people that regulate it.
Vegas
03-23-2007, 05:23 PM
I viewed it as a trick because the first inclination by everyone, I would think, would be the people that sell it or the people that regulate it.
I realize a lot of people think that way, but not me (not hardly).
One of the points I did want to make is that when prices are high, the government reaps the biggest benefits. They rake in far more than do the oil companies. And for those who think that the oil companies should pay more taxes, I would ask where they think the oil companies would get the money to pay those taxes.
I realize a lot of people think that way, but not me (not hardly).
One of the points I did want to make is that when prices are high, the government reaps the biggest benefits. They rake in far more than do the oil companies. And for those who think that the oil companies should pay more taxes, I would ask where they think the oil companies would get the money to pay those taxes.
Raise the tax by 5% and they'll raise prices by 10% just to make sure they're covered.
Seems reasonable.
Vegas
03-23-2007, 05:32 PM
Raise the tax by 5% and they'll raise prices by 10% just to make sure they're covered.
Seems reasonable.
Probably not. The record profits of Exxon Mobil that a lot of people were screaming about recently were $30 billion when during the same time period the government took in over $100 billion on what the Exxon Mobil sold.
Nixon's Head
03-23-2007, 05:47 PM
I blame Texas.
Vegas
03-23-2007, 05:59 PM
I blame Texas.
Not Canada?
Nixon's Head
03-23-2007, 06:00 PM
Not Canada?Do they have refineries up there?
Probably not. The record profits of Exxon Mobil that a lot of people were screaming about recently were $30 billion when during the same time period the government took in over $100 billion on what the Exxon Mobil sold.
And think about how much gubbermint contributed to the success of the economy!
Vegas
03-23-2007, 06:35 PM
And think about how much gubbermint contributed to the success of the economy!
Only when they get out of the economy's way.
Jiddy78
03-27-2007, 07:51 PM
I didn't at all mean it as a trick question. I believe that gas prices are set by the market. Prices definitely go up when demand increases.
I disagree. I am 100% sure that if you put a $5.00 tab on a gallon tomorrow, not one thing would change...People would just inflate their service cost more. Period. We'll crash the doolar before we crash gas usage...It is our infrastructure...and it won't be changed....not anytime soon. Hell, that happened down here in Florida during the hurricanes...F*cking babylonians couldn't help themselves but fill up the RV and take a camping trip only days after the back to back canes....
The market may have some impact....but really stockholders and "growth" and money supply come more into factor IMO......Basically "take what you can 'til you piss them off" economics is my standpoint....Once the sheeple start grumbling (and not your "Oh man this sucks" type grumbling...REAL grumbling...), they back off the price...or when sheeple are needed for something (political votes...Of course that failed this time around...Mainly cuz they needed a few more months of nudging, but they got....greedy)....Simple business, really...Push as far as the customer will let you...That's good in a capitalistic system, right? Only repercussion of jacking gas prices would be political suicide....Lameducks can afford that...Soooooooo....
I expect huge gas price increases over the next year or so.....I'm expecting a weimar-type run now...Veering away from the deflationary perspective....at least for the "small" stuff...Food, gas, paper etc etc....Homes, though, are still f*cked for the time being....
Should be fun.
So long doolar.
Vegas
03-27-2007, 08:04 PM
I disagree. I am 100% sure that if you put a $5.00 tab on a gallon tomorrow, not one thing would change...People would just inflate their service cost more. Period. We'll crash the doolar before we crash gas usage...It is our infrastructure...and it won't be changed....not anytime soon. Hell, that happened down here in Florida during the hurricanes...F*cking babylonians couldn't help themselves but fill up the RV and take a camping trip only days after the back to back canes....
The market may have some impact....but really stockholders and "growth" and money supply come more into factor IMO......Basically "take what you can 'til you piss them off" economics is my standpoint....Once the sheeple start grumbling (and not your "Oh man this sucks" type grumbling...REAL grumbling...), they back off the price...or when sheeple are needed for something (political votes...Of course that failed this time around...Mainly cuz they needed a few more months of nudging, but they got....greedy)....Simple business, really...Push as far as the customer will let you...That's good in a capitalistic system, right? Only repercussion of jacking gas prices would be political suicide....Lameducks can afford that...Soooooooo....
I expect huge gas price increases over the next year or so.....I'm expecting a weimar-type run now...Veering away from the deflationary perspective....at least for the "small" stuff...Food, gas, paper etc etc....Homes, though, are still f*cked for the time being....
Should be fun.
So long doolar.
If it were so easy for the oil companies to just keep raising prices, why have gas prices fallen so many times over the years?
MTVike
03-27-2007, 08:05 PM
I disagree. I am 100% sure that if you put a $5.00 tab on a gallon tomorrow, not one thing would change...People would just inflate their service cost more. Period. We'll crash the doolar before we crash gas usage...It is our infrastructure...and it won't be changed....not anytime soon. Hell, that happened down here in Florida during the hurricanes...F*cking babylonians couldn't help themselves but fill up the RV and take a camping trip only days after the back to back canes....
The market may have some impact....but really stockholders and "growth" and money supply come more into factor IMO......Basically "take what you can 'til you piss them off" economics is my standpoint....Once the sheeple start grumbling (and not your "Oh man this sucks" type grumbling...REAL grumbling...), they back off the price...or when sheeple are needed for something (political votes...Of course that failed this time around...Mainly cuz they needed a few more months of nudging, but they got....greedy)....Simple business, really...Push as far as the customer will let you...That's good in a capitalistic system, right? Only repercussion of jacking gas prices would be political suicide....Lameducks can afford that...Soooooooo....
I expect huge gas price increases over the next year or so.....I'm expecting a weimar-type run now...Veering away from the deflationary perspective....at least for the "small" stuff...Food, gas, paper etc etc....Homes, though, are still f*cked for the time being....
Should be fun.
So long doolar.
I think I agree. :p If you mean gas companies.
Obviously they'll always increase prices with increased demand and here comes summer.
But otherwise, they'll increase prices even when there's speculation about the cost of a barrel of oil. Whether that's due to the war, natural disaster, or days that end in "y". Whether or not the cost of oil spikes upwards, they're slow to return prices to "normal".
They always cover their asses and make lots of money even when they expect to be hurt. Because see, they never are.
Vegas
03-27-2007, 08:06 PM
I think I agree. :p If you mean gas companies.
Obviously they'll always increase prices with increased demand and here comes summer.
But otherwise, they'll increase prices even when there's speculation about the cost of a barrel of oil. Whether that's due to the war, natural disaster, or day's that end in "y". Whether or not the cost of oil spikes, they're slow to return prices to "normal".
They always cover their asses and make lots of money even when they expect to be hurt. Because see, they never are.
But when oil prices fall, the oil companies lose money. It has happened many times. But the government still harvests big money from taxes.
But when oil prices fall, the oil companies lose money. It has happened many times. But the government still harvests big money from taxes.
Do they really lose money or do they not make as much?
Vegas
03-27-2007, 08:12 PM
Do they really lose money or do they not make as much?
They have lost big money many times. When demand for oil falls, there's little they can do with their inventory but sell it at a loss. It has happened many times over the years. But they still invested money looking forward to the higher demand times. And it's a good thing for us consumers that they did or prices would be far higher.
Jiddy78
03-28-2007, 09:49 AM
But when oil prices fall, the oil companies lose money. It has happened many times. But the government still harvests big money from taxes.
That's bubble economics...Just what is apparently wanted in this economy....They bide their times for huge profit-making opportunities, just as one would in the stock market.
Lose a billion this year to ensure that we make 10 next year.
Every entrepreneur goes through it...just most on smaller scales....
Jiddy78
03-28-2007, 09:55 AM
They have lost big money many times. When demand for oil falls, there's little they can do with their inventory but sell it at a loss. It has happened many times over the years. But they still invested money looking forward to the higher demand times. And it's a good thing for us consumers that they did or prices would be far higher.
Number 1, I think you're overlooking some significant "expenses" on the income statement...Not all "expense" is really "expense"....Note things like compensation....and not just CEO compensation...His son's...His son's sons...Their cousins....Their sisters...etc etc....Among other things that slip through the pimple-faced 25 year old auditor's eyes as the Oil guys treat him to some PF Chang's....
And, once again, in the aggregate these guys have hardly lost big money....just in instances....In the aggregate, these guys have made bigger than big money.....and that will never change unless there is a major change to our infrastructure....and there won't be....unless the peak oil arguers are right....
Jiddy78
03-28-2007, 09:56 AM
But when oil prices fall, the oil companies lose money. It has happened many times. But the government still harvests big money from taxes.
Money is less important than...control. Control is the key....and all involved with it will experience vast amounts of wealth...Regardless of that second tuesday in March of 2004 when the Oil companies posted a bad quarterly....
Jiddy78
03-28-2007, 10:29 AM
...
Vegas
03-28-2007, 10:29 AM
Number 1, I think you're overlooking some significant "expenses" on the income statement...Not all "expense" is really "expense"....Note things like compensation....and not just CEO compensation...His son's...His son's sons...Their cousins....Their sisters...etc etc....Among other things that slip through the pimple-faced 25 year old auditor's eyes as the Oil guys treat him to some PF Chang's....
And, once again, in the aggregate these guys have hardly lost big money....just in instances....In the aggregate, these guys have made bigger than big money.....and that will never change unless there is a major change to our infrastructure....and there won't be....unless the peak oil arguers are right....
Yes, over the long run the oil companies have made more than they lost. That's a good thing. If they always lost money, they'd go out of business and we wouldn't be able to buy gas. Business runs on profit. Profit is good. Without it everyone working there loses their job and becomes a tax consumer rather than a taxpayer.
Jiddy78
03-28-2007, 10:59 AM
Yes, over the long run the oil companies have made more than they lost. That's a good thing. If they always lost money, they'd go out of business and we wouldn't be able to buy gas. Business runs on profit. Profit is good. Without it everyone working there loses their job and becomes a tax consumer rather than a taxpayer.
Did I say making money was a bad thing? I fail to recall saying that making money was a bad thing....Let's not confuse business profit making with corruption & thievery when given power/control/wealth.
A "free market" is not "free" when it is being manipulated by dishonesty, corruption and lies....One could, and probably will, argue that it is inevitable based on human nature....I disagree....Checks and balances are put in place for these exact reasons.
Why was the Fed established? Checks and balances.
Why was our political structure established? Checks and balances.
Why are so many of these licensing agencies/permits/organizations established? Checks and balances.
Where has that gone? And how has the attitude changed towards it? To complacency, basically "So long as I get mine it's all good"...Furthermore, these crooks get idolized rather than humiliated/punished in so many cases. 6 years after the enron/worldcom bullcrap, has anything changed? Nah. The con has just been remaneuvered.
Jiddy78
03-28-2007, 11:00 AM
Did I say making money was a bad thing? I fail to recall saying that making money was a bad thing....Let's not confuse business profit making with corruption & thievery when given power/control/wealth.
A "free market" is not "free" when it is being manipulated by dishonesty, corruption and lies....One could, and probably will, argue that it is inevitable based on human nature....I disagree....Checks and balances are put in place for these exact reasons.
Why was the Fed established? Checks and balances.
Why was our political structure established? Checks and balances.
Why are so many of these licensing agencies/permits/organizations established? Checks and balances.
Where has that gone? And how has the attitude changed towards it? To complacency, basically "So long as I get mine it's all good"...Furthermore, these crooks get idolized rather than humiliated/punished in so many cases. 6 years after the enron/worldcom bullcrap, has anything changed? Nah. The con has just been remaneuvered.
I should recant that and say "earning money"....Making money would imply I appreciate the fed running the presses nonstop.
Vegas
03-28-2007, 11:13 AM
Did I say making money was a bad thing? I fail to recall saying that making money was a bad thing....Let's not confuse business profit making with corruption & thievery when given power/control/wealth.
A "free market" is not "free" when it is being manipulated by dishonesty, corruption and lies....One could, and probably will, argue that it is inevitable based on human nature....I disagree....Checks and balances are put in place for these exact reasons.
Why was the Fed established? Checks and balances.
Why was our political structure established? Checks and balances.
Why are so many of these licensing agencies/permits/organizations established? Checks and balances.
Where has that gone? And how has the attitude changed towards it? To complacency, basically "So long as I get mine it's all good"...Furthermore, these crooks get idolized rather than humiliated/punished in so many cases. 6 years after the enron/worldcom bullcrap, has anything changed? Nah. The con has just been remaneuvered.
There are plenty of checks and balances in the free market, too. The invisible hand & competition work very well when they are allowed to.
Jiddy78
03-28-2007, 11:23 AM
There are plenty of checks and balances in the free market, too. The invisible hand & competition work very well when they are allowed to.
When they are allowed to?
Isn't that contradictory to the concept of....free?
:confused:
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