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Jesse Helms' Ghost
05-19-2010, 03:07 AM
First, some background on tonight's results.....


This is how it goes in 2010 at the ballot box: old orders are upended, political lions become roadkill, chosen successors get left behind and the outsider, riding a wave of discontent, becomes the new front-runner.

In quick succession Tuesday night, the jittery inhabitants of Washington's marble halls found three more reasons to worry about their staying power. Pennsylvania Senator Arlen Specter, the Senate's patron saint of resilience, was turned out in a Democratic primary in favor of an unwanted rival, Representative Joe Sestak, who had neither major union support nor White House support. In Arkansas, Senator Blanche Lincoln, a model of southern Democratic moderation, was forced into a primary runoff by a self-styled outsider, Bill Halter, challenging from her left. And in Kentucky, the Washington establishment's chosen Republican Senate candidate, Trey Grayson, fell to the son of a libertarian outlier who carried the flag of another party. "I have a message, a message from the Tea Party, a message that is loud and clear and does not mince words: We've come to take our government back," declared Rand Paul, son of Representative and former presidential candidate Ron Paul, upon winning by a double-digit margin. (See 10 races that have Democrats worried for 2010.)

In all three races, voters rejected the instructions of their own party's leadership, as they have repeatedly this year in states as varied as Utah and Florida. Indeed, even before the polls closed, that leadership had mostly gone into hiding. President Obama traveled Tuesday to Youngstown, Ohio, just miles from the Pennsylvania border, where his chosen candidate, Specter, was struggling to get voters to the polls in the rain. But Obama, who once promised his "full support" of Specter, made no mention of the primary, choosing instead to tour an 85-ton electric arc furnace. "It's just nice to get out of Washington," Obama said. Vice President Joe Biden, a decades-long colleague of Specter who had also promised "full support" and rarely misses an opportunity to stump in his native Pennsylvania, spent his day in Iowa. (Read "The Price of Opportunism: Arlen Specter's Tough Fight.")

On Capitol Hill, Republican leaders also hid from the elephant in the room. Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell, who had handpicked Grayson for his home state, made no mention of the election when he met with reporters in the Capitol. "Obviously the biggest item around the Hill this week is the oil spill in Louisiana," McConnell said instead.

With less than six months to go before the midterm elections on Nov. 2, all signs are pointing to a tidal wave. Electoral railbirds, steeped in historical stats, point to the many bad signs for Democrats. In polls, Republicans and conservatives demonstrate much more enthusiasm than Democrats and liberals. The President's approval rating is below 50%, and more registered voters say they expect to vote for Republicans than Democrats for Congress. "This is as favorable an election for Republicans, as hostile for Democrats, as any in recent memory," says Mark Blumenthal, the editor of Pollster.com. (See 10 races that have Republicans worried for 2010.)

But Republicans have their own worries. In addition to anemic fundraising, the Grand Old Party faces a simmering insurrection in its ranks. Apart from the defeat in Kentucky, Utah Senator Bob Bennett, a moderate fixture of the Washington establishment since 1992, lost his bid for re-election two weeks ago, after his state party's convention delegates revolted over his vote to bail out banks and work with Democrats on health care reform. In Florida, the once popular Republican Governor, Charlie Christ, recently abandoned his party to launch an independent bid after a more conservative challenger threatened to deny him a shot for the state's open Senate seat.

This anti-incumbent mood pervades both parties, leaving open the possibility that the same wave that brought Obama into office in 2008 will undo his governing majorities in 2010. The one bright spot for Obama was a special election Tuesday night in Pennsylvania's 12th district, where Democrats held on to a seat in a conservative district previously held by John Murtha, the big spending defense appropriator who died earlier this year. The seat was won by Mark Critz, a pro-life, pro-gun former Murtha staffer who opposes health care reform and overcame significant Republican spending. The victory demonstrated that Democrats still have hope for making Congressional races local, not national, affairs in the fall. (Read "Primary Tuesday: Sending the Bums the Right Message.")

But this is scant consolation for those incumbents who have become less and less comfortable with each turn at the ballot boxes this year. On Tuesday afternoon, Specter, whose career has survived two bouts with cancer and two party switches, seemed his old fighting self. In an interview on MSNBC, the host suggested that his opponent, Sestak, was more vigorous. "You must be smoking Dutch cleanser," Specter responded, in typical cantankerous fashion.

Just a few hours later, at a downcast concession speech in Philadelphia, Specter did not have much fire left to show. "It's been a great privilege to be in the United States Senate," he said of his 30-year career. "Thank you all." And with that, he quickly left the stage.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20100519/us_time/08599199018500

Jesse Helms' Ghost
05-19-2010, 03:42 AM
While one would be inclined to think, "Ohh great, the conservatives won!!"

The proper reaction should be, 'Beware of that third party...they could really shake things up this November'.

Yes it was great to see Spector sent home, but it wasn't so comforting for the GOP that their own hand-picked candidate got beat by a Tea party candidate.

Also not so comforting is that while Spector lost, he did so in a dem primary...meaning the dems are self-correcting problems on their own side. This will make it harder- not easier- for a GOP candidate to win. Toomey's hugely conservative, but in PA and when compared to Sestak, he's going to have to convince voters he's not off the deep end.

In KY, Rand Paul won. Great for Tea Partiers; bad for the GOP (and specifically Mitch McConnell who hand-picked the GOP's candidate).

The big loser tonight??? Both established parties.

The big winner??? The Tea Party.

Jesse Helms' Ghost
05-19-2010, 04:03 AM
The results tonight were against both party's incumbents and weren't driven by stances on social issues. They were driven by how those incumbents and hand-picked candidates would vote on *fiscal* issues.

This gives even more credence to what i had been saying about the Tea Party *not* being about social issues but being all about fiscal responsibility.

A Glenn Beck can say his group is aligned with or part of or a segment of whatever he wants to. The NYT has it wrong (no surprise) if it's saying the Tea Party movement is taking its cues based on conservative positions on social issues.

No evidence of any of that tonight...or in the recent prior elections this year.

FatDumbOxycontinAbuser
05-19-2010, 07:29 AM
While one would be inclined to think, "Ohh great, the conservatives won!!"

The proper reaction should be, 'Beware of that third party...they could really shake things up this November'.

Yes it was great to see Spector sent home, but it wasn't so comforting for the GOP that their own hand-picked candidate got beat by a Tea party candidate.

Also not so comforting is that while Spector lost, he did so in a dem primary...meaning the dems are self-correcting problems on their own side. This will make it harder- not easier- for a GOP candidate to win. Toomey's hugely conservative, but in PA and when compared to Sestak, he's going to have to convince voters he's not off the deep end.

In KY, Rand Paul won. Great for Tea Partiers; bad for the GOP (and specifically Mitch McConnell who hand-picked the GOP's candidate).

The big loser tonight??? Both established parties.

The big winner??? The Tea Party.

In what other races other than Paul did the tea party have a major impact?

FatDumbOxycontinAbuser
05-19-2010, 08:11 AM
In my opinion, the Democrats holding onto Murtha's seat is a huge story. The GOP, with all the talk of discontent with Obama and the left, were not able to take that seat. I think that race says just as much as the Paul win.

pnkpanther
05-19-2010, 09:21 AM
overall I'm not too concerned. With the economy still in the shitter voters are going to be clamoring for more changes. I expect the Dems to lose in the mid term elections, just like I expected them to win in 2006.

Jesse Helms' Ghost
05-20-2010, 03:05 AM
In my opinion, the Democrats holding onto Murtha's seat is a huge story. The GOP, with all the talk of discontent with Obama and the left, were not able to take that seat. I think that race says just as much as the Paul win. PA's not what most would consider really honestly 'conservative'. The Eastern part is largely liberal and the Western part is slightly more moderate....with a conservative or two emerging as the 'upstarts' rather than the norm. PA's residents also don't reflect nearly as dramatic a change from East to West as CA (or even FL) does from North to South.

The fact Murtha held that seat for so long is a testament to the pork he brought back and not the votes he cast on behalf of socially-conservative issues.

Of the Republican candidate and the socially-moderate dem candidate, the voters chose the dem- who can actually be held to the party agenda- if he wants to play the 'political' game and further his career.

So no, I don't consider the Murtha seat results as any bellweather to a pro-Obama stop-gap. It's, in fact, an anomaly as far as the elections results have gone this year.

FatDumbOxycontinAbuser
05-20-2010, 06:56 AM
PA's not what most would consider really honestly 'conservative'. The Eastern part is largely liberal and the Western part is slightly more moderate....with a conservative or two emerging as the 'upstarts' rather than the norm. PA's residents also don't reflect nearly as dramatic a change from East to West as CA (or even FL) does from North to South.

The fact Murtha held that seat for so long is a testament to the pork he brought back and not the votes he cast on behalf of socially-conservative issues.

Of the Republican candidate and the socially-moderate dem candidate, the voters chose the dem- who can actually be held to the party agenda- if he wants to play the 'political' game and further his career.

So no, I don't consider the Murtha seat results as any bellweather to a pro-Obama stop-gap. It's, in fact, an anomaly as far as the elections results have gone this year.

of course you don't. It doesn't fit your script.

thrasymachus
05-20-2010, 10:50 AM
jhg;dr

...

Jesse Helms' Ghost
05-21-2010, 01:31 AM
of course you don't. It doesn't fit your script. Some former staffer of a deceased congressman winning that seat is about as much news as if the former congressman's wife were to have won.
:rolleyes:

FatDumbOxycontinAbuser
05-21-2010, 07:07 AM
I should have known better. The better and more popular play would have been:

jhg;dr

ryr8828
05-21-2010, 07:18 AM
I should have known better. The better and more popular play would have been:

jhg;dr

You should honor the intent of this particular forum or stay out of it altogether.

Roy Munson
05-21-2010, 07:32 AM
PA's not what most would consider really honestly 'conservative'. The Eastern part is largely liberal and the Western part is slightly more moderate....with a conservative or two emerging as the 'upstarts' rather than the norm. PA's residents also don't reflect nearly as dramatic a change from East to West as CA (or even FL) does from North to South.

The fact Murtha held that seat for so long is a testament to the pork he brought back and not the votes he cast on behalf of socially-conservative issues.

Of the Republican candidate and the socially-moderate dem candidate, the voters chose the dem- who can actually be held to the party agenda- if he wants to play the 'political' game and further his career.

So no, I don't consider the Murtha seat results as any bellweather to a pro-Obama stop-gap. It's, in fact, an anomaly as far as the elections results have gone this year.
You know nothing about eastern PA. Philly is liberal and the rest of the state is mostly conservative. Hell, drive 45 minutes outside of philly and you're in as much "redneck" country as if you were in the south. Can you guess why counties north of Allentown ended up voting Obama? Counties like Lackawanna or Luzerne... Looking at the map, the one that surprised me the most was Dauphin. It seemed like a very conservative area when I lived there.

Roy Munson
05-21-2010, 07:34 AM
You should honor the intent of this particular forum or stay out of it altogether.
I like thinking outside of the tank. Atleast thats how management always wants people to think.

ryr8828
05-21-2010, 07:38 AM
You know nothing about eastern PA. Philly is liberal and the rest of the state is mostly conservative. Hell, drive 45 minutes outside of philly and you're in as much "redneck" country as if you were in the south. Can you guess why counties north of Allentown ended up voting Obama? Counties like Lackawanna or Luzerne... Looking at the map, the one that surprised me the most was Dauphin. It seemed like a very conservative area when I lived there.
It was my understanding that Murtha's district was 2-1 democrat, so the result doesn't surprise me at all.

FatDumbOxycontinAbuser
05-21-2010, 07:45 AM
You should honor the intent of this particular forum or stay out of it altogether.


Am I the only one who doesn't "honor the intent of the forum?" It may be easier to do that if everyone followed the rules. Just my two cents.

Vegas
05-21-2010, 10:32 AM
It was my understanding that Murtha's district was 2-1 democrat, so the result doesn't surprise me at all.

The pro-life, anti-cap & tax, guy who promised not to raise taxes and said he would have voted against the B.O. health care bill won in a district where it's 2:1 Democrats. It's difficult to see how this is such a big win.

ryr8828
05-21-2010, 10:34 AM
Am I the only one who doesn't "honor the intent of the forum?" It may be easier to do that if everyone followed the rules. Just my two cents.

Dom asked to start the think tank forum so tools like you wouldn't be able to hurl insults in it. He wanted actual discussion in this one forum.

thrasymachus
05-21-2010, 09:07 PM
Dom asked to start the think tank forum so tools like you wouldn't be able to hurl insults in it. He wanted actual discussion in this one forum.
I didn't realize this place existed. I take blame for what happened earlier in this thread.

Jesse Helms' Ghost
05-22-2010, 12:17 AM
The pro-life, anti-cap & tax, guy who promised not to raise taxes and said he would have voted against the B.O. health care bill won in a district where it's 2:1 Democrats. It's difficult to see how this is such a big win. And stat-wise, whenever you have a former staffer running for a likable Congressman's seat, that candidate enjoys a huge boost in the polls/at the ballot box.

Only other person who could beat that person is the former Congressman's wife. Wives are something like 37 wins in 38 attempts last i heard.

Jesse Helms' Ghost
05-23-2010, 03:29 AM
of course you don't. It doesn't fit your script.Some former staffer of a deceased congressman winning that seat is about as much news as if the former congressman's wife were to have won.:rolleyes: You gonna try to write this down as a 'win', too, Fat Dumb????

http://www.thepartisanpatriot.com/forums/showthread.php?p=122655#post122655

FatDumbOxycontinAbuser
05-23-2010, 07:16 AM
You know nothing about eastern PA. Philly is liberal and the rest of the state is mostly conservative. Hell, drive 45 minutes outside of philly and you're in as much "redneck" country as if you were in the south. Can you guess why counties north of Allentown ended up voting Obama? Counties like Lackawanna or Luzerne... Looking at the map, the one that surprised me the most was Dauphin. It seemed like a very conservative area when I lived there.

It still is.