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Vegas
06-29-2007, 09:29 PM
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=268009772645806

Tax Policy: Whenever a billionaire starts talking about being undertaxed, better grab your wallet. That's especially true when the billionaire in question is speaking on behalf of a committed tax raiser.
Billionaire Warren Buffet, sage of Omaha, is a man we admire as an investor. He's done a brilliant job of ferreting out value from stocks that are out of favor. He's made many people rich, and that's a noble thing. But when he mounts a political dais at a $4,600-a-plate fundraiser for Sen. Hillary Clinton, and begins saying things that just can't be true, we start to wonder why.

Buffett told Clinton's supporters he makes $46 million a year in income, but is taxed only at 17.7%. Meanwhile, he claims, his secretary pays 30% in taxes, and the rates for others who work for him are as high as 39.7%.
Sounds unjust, if true. But we don't know what tax system Buffett is looking at. It certainly isn't the one we use here in the U.S. We went to the IRS' Web site and used its tax calculator. We put in various incomes, from $50,000 to $350,000 a year — the latter being quite a bit for a secretary to make in Omaha.

So there's no funny business, we gave this fictional person no deductions other than the personal one. That is, no IRAs, no 401(k)s, no children, no mortgage, no nothing. Virtually no one fits that profile, but at least we can't be accused of skewing the data.

Here's what we found: At $50,000, the IRS asks for 13.5% of your income. At $75,000, it's 17.3%. You can keep going all the way to about $350,000 before you're in spitting distance (28.4%) of what Buffett's secretary supposedly pays.

Only if you add in the 6.2% that employees pay for Social Security — which would be cheating, since if she started working before 2000 she'll get that money back — can you reasonably come close to 30%. And that kicks in at an income of just over $190,000.

If this is so, are we to feel sorry for a secretary making $190,000 a year in Omaha, where a dollar doesn't have to be stretched?

So we know that Buffett flunks the IRS calculator test. But what if you add in all federal taxes, even those we don't really pay?

As a starting point, let's note that those in the bottom half of the income distribution don't pay much at all in the way of taxes. In fact, some 45 million people zero out on their taxes entirely or actually end up getting paid by other taxpayers. Another 15 million don't even have to file.

But looking at "effective" tax rates — what people actually paid — in 2004, the fourth quintile of all taxpayers (with average income of $81,700) paid an effective tax rate of 17.2%. That includes individual income taxes, Social Security, sales taxes, corporate income taxes, everything. The highest 20%, with average income of $207,200, paid a 25.1% tax rate. That's still not more than 30%.

According to the Congressional Budget Office's most recent data (2004), just one group paid an effective tax rate of more than a 30% — the top 1% of all earners. And that begins at $1.26 million pre-tax. Not a lot of secretaries there.

So Buffett's math is either false or extremely misleading.

This is nothing new. A longtime Democrat, Buffett has advocated tax hikes in the past, using his party's class-warfare rhetoric of "fairness." Other billionaires have done the same — including George Soros and Bill Gates Sr. (the father of Microsoft founder Bill Gates). Seems that a lot of people are seized by guilt over their wealth.

These men, in their own way, are brilliant businessmen, but as tax economists they leave a lot to be desired. Higher taxes, they should know, lead inevitably to slower economic growth. Which leads to fewer jobs, lower incomes and declining standards of living. Most economists employed outside the Democratic Party agree on this.

As Nobel prize winner Edward Prescott recently wrote: "To raise tax rates and thereby dampen economic activity seems a perverse way to improve our economic situation. . . . Let's not keep trying to trick our citizens into accepting one tax one day, and another tax the next. Let's not try to tax our way to prosperity."

The fact is, despite anecdotes like Buffett's, our tax system has never been more "progressive," with fewer and fewer people at the top of the pyramid paying more and more in taxes. In 2004, the top 1% of incomes today paid 37% of all income taxes, and the top 5% paid more than all the rest combined — 57%. These are both near record highs.

What perplexes us is that Buffett seems to want higher taxes on the very people — entrepreneurs — who create the jobs, increase the wealth and stimulate the growth that make America's economy the marvel that it is. Doesn't he realize that when you tax something, you always get less of it?

BoredWithNoSB
06-30-2007, 09:53 AM
I think its pretty obvious that hewas taking the total tax laibility of the individuals (Fed+State+Local+FICA). I don't get why that's such a stretch.

Vegas
06-30-2007, 02:05 PM
I think its pretty obvious that hewas taking the total tax laibility of the individuals (Fed+State+Local+FICA). I don't get why that's such a stretch.

Still can't get there. He's not talking real numbers. And there's no way he's only paying 17% at his income level.

hannitykillspuppies
07-03-2007, 12:59 PM
Still can't get there. He's not talking real numbers. And there's no way he's only paying 17% at his income level.
i would think he is well aware of how much he's paying in taxes.

ryr8828
07-03-2007, 05:32 PM
i would think he is well aware of how much he's paying in taxes.
He could be lying.

Jiddy78
07-03-2007, 05:52 PM
He could be lying.

Save it for the conspiracy thread, chicken little.

Vegas
07-03-2007, 05:54 PM
Save it for the conspiracy thread, chicken little.

As has been discussed before, Buffet has his own agenda when it comes to tax laws.

hannitykillspuppies
07-03-2007, 06:38 PM
He could be lying.

prove it

ryr8828
07-03-2007, 07:19 PM
prove it
Vegas already has.

hannitykillspuppies
07-03-2007, 07:36 PM
Vegas already has.

no he didn't

ryr8828
07-03-2007, 09:53 PM
no he didn'tHis article did, coupled with a small amount of common sense required by the reader.

Hotpapa666
07-04-2007, 04:44 AM
His article did, coupled with a small amount of common sense required by the reader.


Show me two reasonably prepared tax returns for Buffet and the Woman that show that Buffet is lying. That article, like a lot of 'em that get posted on here, picks the sources/information that it likes and forgets to mention those that it doesn't.


What are the author of this article's credetials? Is he a CPA? Is he a Tax Lawyer? Or, is he just another partisan hack. Given the source of the article, I would lean toward this guy being a hack before I would accuse Buffet of lying.

Jiddy78
07-04-2007, 09:26 AM
As has been discussed before, Buffet has his own agenda when it comes to tax laws.

Agendas can be argued with truths as well as lies....This is conspiracy thread quality unless you can prove his tax rate.



Only if you add in the 6.2% that employees pay for Social Security — which would be cheating, since if she started working before 2000 she'll get that money back

Anyone care to explain this quote from the article? You probably won't....because you can't.