Starbucks allows Open Carry of guns in its stores

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

Dale Welch recently walked into a Starbucks in Virginia, handgun strapped to his waist, and ordered a banana Frappuccino with a cinnamon bun. He says the firearm drew a double-take from at least one customer, but not a peep from the baristas.

Welch's foray into the coffeehouse was part of an effort by some gun owners to exercise and advertise their rights in states that allow people to openly carry firearms.

Even in some "open carry" states, businesses are allowed to ban guns in their stores. And some have, creating political confrontations with gun owners. But Starbucks, the largest chain targeted, has refused to take the bait, saying in a statement this month that it follows state and local laws and has its own safety measures in its stores.

"Starbucks is a special target because it's from the hippie West Coast, and a lot of dedicated consumers who pay $4 for coffee have expectations that Starbucks would ban guns. And here they aren't," said John Bruce, a political science professor at the University of Mississippi who is an expert in gun policy.

Welch, a 71-year-old retired property manager who lives in Richmond, Va., doesn't see any reason why he shouldn't bear arms while he gets caffeinated.

"I don't know of anybody who would provide me with defense other than myself, so I routinely as a way of life carry a weapon — and that extends to my coffee shops," he said.

The fight for retailers heated up in early January when gun enthusiasts in northern California began walking into Starbucks and other businesses to test state laws that allow gun owners to carry weapons openly in public places. As it spread to other states, gun control groups quickly complained about the parade of firearms in local stores.

Some were spontaneous, with just one or two gun owners walking into a store. Others were organized parades of dozens of gun owners walking into restaurants with their firearms proudly at their sides.

In one case, about 100 activists bearing arms had planned to go to a California Pizza Kitchen in Walnut Creek, Calif., but after it became clear they weren't welcome they went to another restaurant. That chain and Peet's Coffee & Tea are among the businesses that have banned customers with guns.

Just as shops can deny service to barefoot customers, restaurants and stores in some states can declare their premises gun-free zones.

The advocacy group OpenCarry.org, a leading group encouraging the demonstrations, applauded Starbucks in a statement for "deciding not to discriminate against lawful gun carriers."

"Starbucks is seen as a responsible corporation and they're seen as a very progressive corporation, and this policy is very much in keeping with that," said John Pierce, co-founder of OpenCarry.org. "If you're going to support individual rights, you have to support them all. I applaud them, and I've gone out of my way personally to let every manager of every Starbucks I pass know that."

The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence has responded by circulating a petition that soon attracted 26,000 signatures demanding that Starbucks "offer espresso shots, not gunshots" and declare its coffeehouses "gun-free zones."

Gun control advocates hope the coffeehouse firearms displays end up aggravating more people than they inspire.

"If you want to dress up and go out and make a little political theater by frightening children in the local Starbucks, if that's what you want to spend your energy on, go right ahead," said Peter Hamm, a spokesman for the Brady campaign. "But going out and wearing a gun on your belt to show the world you're allowed to is a little juvenile."

The coffeehouse debate has been particularly poignant for gun-control advocates in Washington state, where four uniformed police officers were shot and killed while working on their laptops at a suburban coffeehouse. The shooter later died in a gun battle with police.

Ralph Fascitelli of Washington Ceasefire, an advocacy group that seeks to reduce gun violence, said allowing guns in coffeehouses robs residents of "societal sanctuaries."

"People go to Starbucks for an escape, just so they can get peace," Fascitelli said. "But people walk in with open-carry guns and it destroys the tranquility."

Gun control advocates have been on the defensive. Their opponents have trumpeted fears that gun rights would erode under a Democrat-led White House and Congress, but President Barack Obama and his top allies have largely been silent on issues such as reviving an assault weapons ban or strengthening background checks at gun shows.

Gun rights groups are looking to build on a 2008 U.S. Supreme Court ruling that struck down Washington, D.C.'s handgun ban, and cheered legislation that took effect Monday allowing licensed gun owners to bring firearms into national parks. Obama signed that legislation as part of a broader bill.

Legislators in Montana and Tennessee, meanwhile, have passed measures seeking to exempt guns made and kept in-state from national gun control laws. And state lawmakers elsewhere are considering legislation that would give residents more leeway to carry concealed weapons without permits.

Observers say the gun rights movement is using the Starbucks campaign to add momentum and energize its supporters.

"They're trying to change the culture with this broader notion of gun rights," said Clyde Wilcox, a Georgetown University government professor who has written a book on the politics of gun control. "I think they are pressing the notion that they've got a rout going, so why not just get what they can while they're ahead?"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100228/ap_on_bi_ge/us_guns___coffee

[FatDumbOxycontinAbuser]

Does one really need the protection of a firearm when ordering a double soy mocha latte and danish?

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

Does one really need the protection of a firearm when ordering a double soy mocha latte and danish?
LAKEWOOD, Wash. - Four uniformed police officers were shot and killed in a bloody Sunday morning attack at a Lakewood-area coffee shop, and investigators are seeking a person of interest in the killings, officials said.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/78088192.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,577691,00.html

[Vegas]

LAKEWOOD, Wash. - Four uniformed police officers were shot and killed in a bloody Sunday morning attack at a Lakewood-area coffee shop, and investigators are seeking a person of interest in the killings, officials said.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/78088192.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,577691,00.html

Sounds like somebody didn't like the poetry reading that day.

[domenick2x]

Sounds like somebody didn't like the poetry reading that day.
So if guys who already had handguns and training in how to use them couldn't stop a lone assailant who disliked the poetry reading... what good are they?

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

So if guys who already had handguns and training in how to use them couldn't stop a lone assailant who disliked the poetry reading... what good are they? Add some more folks with handguns and training then see how far he gets in his ambush...or if he'd even think to ambush somebody there.

Oh, you're on the 'dr' program...i'll hope Vegas quotes me.

[FatDumbOxycontinAbuser]

Add some more folks with handguns and training then see how far he gets in his ambush...or if he'd even think to ambush somebody there.

Oh, you're on the 'dr' program...i'll hope Vegas quotes me.


I doubt this paricular assailant, or anyone hell bent on shooting up a coffee shop, is using the type of logic or reasoning you are alluding to here.

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

I doubt this paricular assailant, or anyone hell bent on shooting up a coffee shop, is using the type of logic or reasoning you are alluding to here. If folks had Open Carry firearms, it's likely he wouldn't have tried this since the firearms would have been easy to get to versus these deputies' concealed weapons. It's likely this assailant got a jump on at least a couple of them which is why he shot all four of them before a shot was returned back at him.

Just the presence of other firearms could have possibly deterred this from taking place.

[hannitykillspuppies]

Add some more folks with handguns and training then see how far he gets in his ambush...or if he'd even think to ambush somebody there.

Oh, you're on the 'dr' program...i'll hope Vegas quotes me.

yeah, he didn't have a problem shooting up 4 cops. armed civilians would certainly deter him.

[hannitykillspuppies]

LAKEWOOD, Wash. - Four uniformed police officers were shot and killed in a bloody Sunday morning attack at a Lakewood-area coffee shop, and investigators are seeking a person of interest in the killings, officials said.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/78088192.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,577691,00.html

If folks had Open Carry firearms, it's likely he wouldn't have tried this since the firearms would have been easy to get to versus these deputies' concealed weapons. It's likely this assailant got a jump on at least a couple of them which is why he shot all four of them before a shot was returned back at him.

Just the presence of other firearms could have possibly deterred this from taking place.

...

[FatDumbOxycontinAbuser]

...

Why let the facts get in the way of a good rant?

[hannitykillspuppies]

Why let the facts get in the way of a good rant?

i'm sure it will all be understood when it is explained that holstered guns on the hip are in fact concealed.

[pnkpanther]

yeah, he didn't have a problem shooting up 4 cops. armed civilians would certainly deter him.

Citizens are betters shots then cops

[pnkpanther]

i'm sure it will all be understood when it is explained that holstered guns on the hip are in fact concealed.

Deputies should have a gun in their hand at all times, safety off

[hannitykillspuppies]

Deputies should have a gun in their hand at all times, safety off

apparently that's how those potential civilians would have been carrying their guns.

[pnkpanther]

apparently that's how those potential civilians would have been carrying their guns.

No shit, busting every door

"I want a latte, set it down, I'll slide the cash over"


"easy, easy"

"where's my change"

"thank you, come again!"

[LionFanFormerlyInLA]

You guys are missing the most important part of the article:

Dale Welch recently walked into a Starbucks in Virginia, handgun strapped to his waist, and ordered a banana Frappuccino with a cinnamon bun. He says the firearm drew a double-take from at least one customer, but not a peep from the baristas.

That is just flat out wrong.

[Iron Jaw]

Does one really need the protection of a firearm when ordering a double soy mocha latte and danish?

One of the independent coffee shops here in Yuma was busted because the owners and managers were laundering money for the Mexican drug and human cartels.

Their coffee sucked anyway...........

[Iron Jaw]

Citizens are betters shots then cops

Border Patrol Agents are the best shooters........not that I'm biased.....:p

[hannitykillspuppies]

You guys are missing the most important part of the article:



That is just flat out wrong.

who doesn't like banana in their coffee?

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

who doesn't like banana in their coffee?That's how i know you're a homo.

[hannitykillspuppies]

That's how i know you're a homo.

uniformed officers weapons are concealed, right?

[FatDumbOxycontinAbuser]

uniformed officers weapons are concealed, right?

he doesn't want to talk about that bit.

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

uniformed officers weapons are concealed, right? That's all ya got??
(i stand corrected. For some reason i thought the officers had been plain-clothed and not uniformed).

In any event, here i thought you weren't a liberal like i always say you are, but there you are arguing- vehemently- to not allow citizens to carry firearms in the open. Dude, you're a big friggin' liberal.
:rolleyes:

If there're citizens carrying guns in the open in that coffee house, that guy might have thought twice about offing those officers in an ambush since he'd have known they weren't the only folks carrying a firearm.

But they happened to be the only ones armed and he only had to worry about making sure to fire at them and nobody else.

[domenick2x]

I have a question about open-carry laws, thought perhaps one of you proponents would know.

Would a private business - like a Starbucks - be within their rights to exclude service/entrance to someone with a gun? Sort of a 'no shoes, no shirt, got gun, no service' situation... or does the Open Carry law generally trump that? Just curious.

[ryr8828]

I have a question about open-carry laws, thought perhaps one of you proponents would know.

Would a private business - like a Starbucks - be within their rights to exclude service/entrance to someone with a gun? Sort of a 'no shoes, no shirt, got gun, no service' situation... or does the Open Carry law generally trump that? Just curious.

They can restrict firearms from their premises.

[pnkpanther]

That's all ya got??
(i stand corrected. For some reason i thought the officers had been plain-clothed and not uniformed).

In any event, here i thought you weren't a liberal like i always say you are, but there you are arguing- vehemently- to not allow citizens to carry firearms in the open. Dude, you're a big friggin' liberal.
:rolleyes:

If there're citizens carrying guns in the open in that coffee house, that guy might have thought twice about offing those officers in an ambush since he'd have known they weren't the only folks carrying a firearm.

But they happened to be the only ones armed and he only had to worry about making sure to fire at them and nobody else.


yeah.....:rolleyes:

[hannitykillspuppies]

That's all ya got??
(i stand corrected. For some reason i thought the officers had been plain-clothed and not uniformed).

In any event, here i thought you weren't a liberal like i always say you are, but there you are arguing- vehemently- to not allow citizens to carry firearms in the open. Dude, you're a big friggin' liberal.
:rolleyes:

If there're citizens carrying guns in the open in that coffee house, that guy might have thought twice about offing those officers in an ambush since he'd have known they weren't the only folks carrying a firearm.

But they happened to be the only ones armed and he only had to worry about making sure to fire at them and nobody else.

i wonder what that reason is.

where did i argue not to allow citizens to carry firearms?

again, the guy wasn't deterred by four cops. but the possibility of just one average citizen carrying a gun would have made him think twice.

the logic that more people with guns will make it less likely that criminals, and in this case a batshit crazy criminal, will use their guns makes no sense.

[pnkpanther]

i wonder what that reason is.

where did i argue not to allow citizens to carry firearms?

again, the guy wasn't deterred by four cops. but the possibility of just one average citizen carrying a gun would have made him think twice.

the logic that more people with guns will make it less likely that criminals, and in this case a batshit crazy criminal, will use their guns makes no sense.

You're trying to get Logic from Gresh?

[hannitykillspuppies]

You're trying to get Logic from Gresh?i'm just trying to point out what i was arguing against.

though that's probably an exercise in futility seeing as he couldn't glean from the articles he posted and quoted that the four slain officers were in uniform.

[pnkpanther]

i'm just trying to point out what i was arguing against.

though that's probably an exercise in futility seeing as he couldn't gleam from the articles he posted and quoted that the four slain officers were in uniform.

reading comprehension and logic aren't his strong suits. Probably as strong as my ability to spell

[FatDumbOxycontinAbuser]

You're trying to get Logic from Gresh?

Gresh? Here all this time I thought it was Straw??

[pnkpanther]

Gresh? Here all this time I thought it was Straw??

it is straw.

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

I have a question about open-carry laws, thought perhaps one of you proponents would know.

Would a private business - like a Starbucks - be within their rights to exclude service/entrance to someone with a gun? Sort of a 'no shoes, no shirt, got gun, no service' situation... or does the Open Carry law generally trump that? Just curious. That's what other stores have done (Peet's and Calif Pizza Kitchen).
It's in the article.

I don't agree with it, and that will end up being addressed, i would think with the SCOTUS at some point.

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

i'm just trying to point out what i was arguing against. Which was namely that you oppose citizens carrying firearms and assume that citizens who carried them in this incident would not have been of any help to the officers being fired upon.

Yes, i got that, Mr. Liberal.

[hannitykillspuppies]

Which was namely that you oppose citizens carrying firearms and assume that citizens who carried them in this incident would not have been of any help to the officers being fired upon.

Yes, i got that, Mr. Liberal.please quote me saying i'm against citizens carrying firearms.

[Vegas]

please quote me saying i'm against citizens carrying firearms.

Look for one of those "fixed" type of responses.

[Jiddy78]

I'm Against Citizens Carrying Firearms.

Wat

[FatDumbOxycontinAbuser]

Why is everyone so quick to label everyone else nowadays?

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

Why is everyone so quick to label everyone else nowadays? Ashy's always trying to say he's not a liberal, yet routinely argues for liberal causes or takes up for just about anything on the left..????

...but he's not 'liberal' and is steadfastly in favor of Open Carry of firearms (i got this right, Ashy, er Mr. NRA???)

[hannitykillspuppies]

Look for one of those "fixed" type of responses.

Wat

hilarious.

[hannitykillspuppies]

Ashy's always trying to say he's not a liberal, yet routinely argues for liberal causes or takes up for just about anything on the left..????

...but he's not 'liberal' and is steadfastly in favor of Open Carry of firearms (i got this right, Ashy, er Mr. NRA???)

maybe you can quote one of those posts for me as well. because i doubt i have said that. i may have, but i doubt it.

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

maybe you can quote one of those posts for me as well. because i doubt i have said that. i may have, but i doubt it. Maybe you can come to the realization that you're arguing against the very policy that is Open carry with your coffee house BS.
('But they wouldn't be able to do this'...'a citizen wouldn't have been able to do that') :rolleyes:

Or is this just another one of the may times you're <ahem> arguing just to argue..???

In which case...

:rolleyes:

[ryr8828]

I won't open carry unless it's the only legal option I have. Not in town anyway.

[hannitykillspuppies]

I won't open carry unless it's the only legal option I have. Not in town anyway.

oh, oh, you're sooooo liberal.

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

I won't open carry unless it's the only legal option I have. Not in town anyway. I'll take any option i can have (especially in this State).

Conceal carry's the only way i can carry anything if i'm going through a bad area of LA.

I honestly wish i could just put a firearm in a holster and carry it open.

And i honestly think that allowing citizens to go through a training program and carry a firearm would deter some idiot from a robbery, or in the case i brought up, trying to execute some cops.

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

oh, oh, you're sooooo liberal.

Here's an easier question...

When have you taken up for firearms programs (conceal carry...open carry...'assault' rifles not being banned....anything????)

<crickets>

[Vegas]

I'll take any option i can have (especially in this State).

Conceal carry's the only way i can carry anything if i'm going through a bad area of LA.

I honestly wish i could just put a firearm in a holster and carry it open.

And i honestly think that allowing citizens to go through a training program and carry a firearm would deter some idiot from a robbery, or in the case i brought up, trying to execute some cops.

You can't carry concealed legally in LA county. They've been turning everyone down for permits for years.

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

You can't carry concealed legally in LA county. They've been turning everyone down for permits for years. You can if you don't get caught.
;)

And having protection on me beats out ending up a statistic.

[Vegas]

You can if you don't get caught.
;)

And having protection on me beats out ending up a statistic.

You obviously missed the word "legally" in there.

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

You obviously missed the word "legally" in there. Nope.

That's why i said, it's ok if you don't get caught.

Then gave a valid reason i'd be willing to risk getting caught afterward.

[hannitykillspuppies]

Maybe you can come to the realization that you're arguing against the very policy that is Open carry with your coffee house BS.
('But they wouldn't be able to do this'...'a citizen wouldn't have been able to do that') :rolleyes:

Or is this just another one of the may times you're <ahem> arguing just to argue..???

In which case...

:rolleyes:

well if open carry laws would mean that this guy wouldn't have shot and killed those four cops, then you would be correct. but it doesn't, so you're not.

and i'll take your response as an, "i can't."

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

well if open carry laws would mean that this guy wouldn't have shot and killed those four cops, then you would be correct. but it doesn't, so you're not. Nice dodge of whether you believe in *any* firearm carry laws. Anytime you want to address that.....


Common sense- which you're lacking anyway- would have told you that if open carry laws were in affect, this guy's head would have to have been on a swivel since he'd have known that more than four people in a coffeehouse were carrying firearms.

But in this instance, he only had to keep four folks in his sights. End result was more folks dead than could have been had there been more citizens with training and a firearm available.

And this was four police officers. In many cases an armed assailant can go into a store or restaurant and open fire knowing *no* uniformed cops are there.

[hannitykillspuppies]

Here's an easier question...

When have you taken up for firearms programs (conceal carry...open carry...'assault' rifles not being banned....anything????)

<crickets>

when have i taken up against the first two?

in the apparent new method of putting crickets in the actual post that has yet to be replied to...crickets.

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

well if open carry laws would mean that this guy wouldn't have shot and killed those four cops, then you would be correct. but it doesn't, so you're not.

and i'll take your response as an, "i can't." Here, argue this....

As reported, a terrorist in Israel used a construction vehicle to ram a bus and a police car, injuring multiple people. The police car was then flipped over by the terrorist, who proceeded to try and crush car with the construction vehicle’s front shovel. Luckily, an armed taxi driver was able to draw his pistol and fire four shot, which wounded the terrorist before he could kill the cops. A police officer later appeared and fatally shot the terrorist with an M-16.

Attacks by terrorists who use everyday tools such as construction equipment are sadly nothing new in Israel. However they are often stopped by armed citizens, just as this attack, and a similar attack from last summer, were both ended. Civilian gun ownership has a proven track record of stopping terrorism, while unarmed citizens are massacred when criminals, terrorists, or the mentally ill go on a rampage.

http://www.learnaboutguns.com/2009/03/05/another-terrorist-attack-stopped-by-an-armed-citizen/

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

Or this.....

Criminal justice instructor Michael Minto was leaving the Kaplan Career Institute in Swatara Township on Monday night when he spotted a man being stabbed, police said.

Minto pulled his gun and ordered the attacker to drop his knife, police said. The attacker fled, and authorities said Minto’s actions likely saved the life of Dillon Mitchell, 30, of Harrisburg.

If Minto had not intervened, “We might be talking about someone who died,” said Deputy Swatara Township Police Chief Jason D. Umberger. “There are not many citizens out there that would have the courage to take that action.”

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2009/12/kaplan_career_institute_teache.html

[hannitykillspuppies]

Nice dodge of whether you believe in *any* firearm carry laws. Anytime you want to address that.....


Common sense- which you're lacking anyway- would have told you that if open carry laws were in affect, this guy's head would have to have been on a swivel since he'd have known that more than four people in a coffeehouse were carrying firearms.

But in this instance, he only had to keep four folks in his sights. End result was more folks dead than could have been had there been more citizens with training and a firearm available.

And this was four police officers. In many cases an armed assailant can go into a store or restaurant and open fire knowing *no* uniformed cops are there.you accusing someone else of dodging, that's rich.

why would his head have to be on a swivel? he'd already know who else was armed. he could walk by and pick each one off and then commence firing on the cops. you seem to think this guy was concerned with self preservation. clearly he wasn't. everyone knows what happens when cops finally hunt down cop killers. common sense tells you that you don't rape kids, go figure this guy never had much use for common sense. not unlike yourself.

[hannitykillspuppies]

Here, argue this....

As reported, a terrorist in Israel used a construction vehicle to ram a bus and a police car, injuring multiple people. The police car was then flipped over by the terrorist, who proceeded to try and crush car with the construction vehicle’s front shovel. Luckily, an armed taxi driver was able to draw his pistol and fire four shot, which wounded the terrorist before he could kill the cops. A police officer later appeared and fatally shot the terrorist with an M-16.

Attacks by terrorists who use everyday tools such as construction equipment are sadly nothing new in Israel. However they are often stopped by armed citizens, just as this attack, and a similar attack from last summer, were both ended. Civilian gun ownership has a proven track record of stopping terrorism, while unarmed citizens are massacred when criminals, terrorists, or the mentally ill go on a rampage.

http://www.learnaboutguns.com/2009/03/05/another-terrorist-attack-stopped-by-an-armed-citizen/

one, that has nothing to do with what i asked.

two, please quote where i said people shouldn't be allowed to carry guns in their car.

thanks.

[hannitykillspuppies]

Or this.....

Criminal justice instructor Michael Minto was leaving the Kaplan Career Institute in Swatara Township on Monday night when he spotted a man being stabbed, police said.

Minto pulled his gun and ordered the attacker to drop his knife, police said. The attacker fled, and authorities said Minto’s actions likely saved the life of Dillon Mitchell, 30, of Harrisburg.

If Minto had not intervened, “We might be talking about someone who died,” said Deputy Swatara Township Police Chief Jason D. Umberger. “There are not many citizens out there that would have the courage to take that action.”

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2009/12/kaplan_career_institute_teache.html

one, again has nothing to do with what i asked.

two, please quote where i said people should not be able to conceal carry.

thanks.

[hannitykillspuppies]

i do find it funny that i'm getting lectured on legal and responsible gun ownership from a guy who admittedly and boastedly confesses to ilegally carrying a gun.

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

you accusing someone else of dodging, that's rich.

why would his head have to be on a swivel? he'd already know who else was armed. he could walk by and pick each one off and then commence firing on the cops. you seem to think this guy was concerned with self preservation. clearly he wasn't. everyone knows what happens when cops finally hunt down cop killers. common sense tells you that you don't rape kids, go figure this guy never had much use for common sense. not unlike yourself. Was this in a movie you saw, or just another one of your liberal fantasies where the culprit pecks people off as well as the cops???

:rolleyes:

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

one, that has nothing to do with what i asked.

two, please quote where i said people shouldn't be allowed to carry guns in their car.

thanks. It has to do with what i always point out- your liberalism and the way you always come up with excuses after making arguments on behalf of leftist causes.

Why don't you show me where you've *championed* gun rights instead of playing the shell game where we all have to guess where you stand on an issue???

Shouldn't be all that hard, right???

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

i do find it funny that i'm getting lectured on legal and responsible gun ownership from a guy who admittedly and boastedly confesses to ilegally carrying a gun. You're not getting lectured on legal and responsible gun ownership.

You're getting lectured for your routine backing of the left's beliefs regarding gun ownership and the fact you don't back gun rights for just about anything (open carry, conceal carry, etc.)

I've also driven over the speed limit and have done the 'California stop' when running late.

Ohh, and i helped write an essay in college. (That's so that Jiddy won't feel left out).

[hannitykillspuppies]

It has to do with what i always point out- your liberalism and the way you always come up with excuses after making arguments on behalf of leftist causes.

Why don't you show me where you've *championed* gun rights instead of playing the shell game where we all have to guess where you stand on an issue???

Shouldn't be all that hard, right???

it shouldn't be hard to quote a post where i said i wasn't a liberal. yet you can't do it. it also shouldn't be hard to quote a post where i'm against legal gun ownership not related to assault rifles and against conceal/open carry permits since i'm always against it and yet you can't do it.

i'm not the one making accusations, i need to prove nothing.

[hannitykillspuppies]

You're not getting lectured on legal and responsible gun ownership.

You're getting lectured for your routine backing of the left's beliefs regarding gun ownership and the fact you don't back gun rights for just about anything (open carry, conceal carry, etc.)

I've also driven over the speed limit and have done the 'California stop' when running late.

Ohh, and i helped write an essay in college. (That's so that Jiddy won't feel left out).

you illegally carry a weapon. criminal.

[FatDumbOxycontinAbuser]

If i own a business and I don't want someone in my place of business carrying a gun, tough luck. Leave it in the car or don't come in. It's my business and I'll run it as I see fit.

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

it shouldn't be hard to quote a post where i said i wasn't a liberal. yet you can't do it. :rolleyes:

You are a liberal whether you admit it or wanna play the shell game.

You don't have to state it for others to see what side of the aisle you routinely fall on. The evidence is there. You argue against pretty much anybody who's on the right.

[Vegas]

If i own a business and I don't want someone in my place of business carrying a gun, tough luck. Leave it in the car or don't come in. It's my business and I'll run it as I see fit.

I see nothing wrong with that. But if you don't allow any guns in your place of business, is it more or less likely to be robbed?

[FatDumbOxycontinAbuser]

I see nothing wrong with that. But if you don't allow any guns in your place of business, is it more or less likely to be robbed?


Are there statistics on this?

I don't know.

I think most business owners who have a firearm aren't advertising the fact. The ones that do are more than likely in high crime areas. So although I don't know for sure, I would think that there is a reasonable chance that those businesses who do have a gun on hand may be more likely to be robbed or at least to have a robbery attempt.

[Vegas]

Are there statistics on this?

I don't know.

I think most business owners who have a firearm aren't advertising the fact. The ones that do are more than likely in high crime areas. So although I don't know for sure, I would think that there is a reasonable chance that those businesses who do have a gun on hand may be more likely to be robbed or at least to have a robbery attempt.

Let's think about it. If you're a robber, would you go to a place with no gun policy, one that's said that concealed carry and open carry is acceptable, or one that forbids guns? I bet you'd go to the one that forbids guns.

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

I see nothing wrong with that. But if you don't allow any guns in your place of business, is it more or less likely to be robbed?Let's think about it. If you're a robber, would you go to a place with no gun policy, one that's said that concealed carry and open carry is acceptable, or one that forbids guns? I bet you'd go to the one that forbids guns. Let's think about it.

Would you rather rob a donut shop with several cops always stopping in or a coffee house whose policy it is to forbid firearms??

Seriously....how many donut shops have you ever heard of that got robbed??

[hannitykillspuppies]

:rolleyes:

You are a liberal whether you admit it or wanna play the shell game.

You don't have to state it for others to see what side of the aisle you routinely fall on. The evidence is there. You argue against pretty much anybody who's on the right.


you make no sense. you claim that i have flat out said many times that i'm not a liberal. quote one post. just one out of the many.

no, according to you i've stated that i am not. many times. and yet you can't quote one of the many instances.

you're a mook.

[FatDumbOxycontinAbuser]

Let's think about it.

Would you rather rob a donut shop with several cops always stopping in or a coffee house whose policy it is to forbid firearms??

Seriously....how many donut shops have you ever heard of that got robbed??


As usual, FAIL!

google donut shop robbery and donut shop shooting.

[domenick2x]

Let's think about it. If you're a robber, would you go to a place with no gun policy, one that's said that concealed carry and open carry is acceptable, or one that forbids guns? I bet you'd go to the one that forbids guns.
How much did the guy in Lakewood steal?

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

As usual, FAIL!

google donut shop robbery and donut shop shooting. Now go Google the number of robberies that took place in stores/restaurants/venues where a gun presence was not allowed.

No, Virginia, i never said a donut shop robbery could never happen. Go back and read what was posted. For once. :rolleyes:

It begs for you to Google the other half of the equation and compare it to 'donut shop robbery'.

[FatDumbOxycontinAbuser]

Seriously....how many donut shops have you ever heard of that got robbed??


You didn't?

[pnkpanther]

Now go Google the number of robberies that took place in stores/restaurants/venues where a gun presence was not allowed.

No, Virginia, i never said a donut shop robbery could never happen. Go back and read what was posted. For once. :rolleyes:

It begs for you to Google the other half of the equation and compare it to 'donut shop robbery'.

.....

Let's think about it.

Would you rather rob a donut shop with several cops always stopping in or a coffee house whose policy it is to forbid firearms??

Seriously....how many donut shops have you ever heard of that got robbed??

That second part only makes sense if it's next to none. Otherwise what was the point of your statement?

If you wanted to make an accurate analogy, there are plenty available. You made a wise ass remark, were wrong, got called out on it, and are now spinning like a dradle on hannukah.

This is nothing new.

The only thing missing is a story of how you bought a really expensive gun and personally thwarted a robbery at a donut shop.

[domenick2x]

Results 1 - 10 of about 33,200 for "donut shop robbery".


Dunkin Donuts alone has 8800 stores in 31 countries.

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

Results 1 - 10 of about 33,200 for "donut shop robbery".

Dunkin Donuts alone has 8800 stores in 31 countries. LOL

You really don't know how search engines work, do you?

:rolleyes:

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

.....

That second part only makes sense if it's next to none. Otherwise what was the point of your statement? It makes sense if you can prove that there have been more successful donut shop robberies- with a police presence or a firearm around- than robberies of stores/restaurants/etc when there hasn't been a gun around.

Common sense would dictate that that would not be true.

But leave it to you to state that it only makes sense if the answer is 'zero'.
:rolleyes: