Scott Roeder Conviction

[domenick2x]

If you were part of the jury in the Scott Roeder trial (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100125/ap_on_re_us/us_abortion_shooting_trial), knowing only what you do right now, which of the charges would you convict him of?

[TGPackersTwins19]

Life without parole.

Killing CAN be justified, but only on a rare occasion. War comes to mind, as well as the assassination of a dictator (someone like a Hitler or Stalin).

This was NOT justified, by any means. And I'm pro-life (I think the decision is best left to the states, though)

But the other extreme, the death penalty (which I'm on the fence about anyway, government having the power to end your life with a conviction is a scary prospect) is sometimes warranted in cases of multiple 1D homicides, or in cases of sexually abusing children. Neither was the case here. He committed only one homicide.

[hannitykillspuppies]

37 minutes, guilty of 1st degree, life.

[Matt]

He won't get death. The people in America who cry for the death penalty most of the time will rejoice.

Your's is an interesting country.

[Vegas]

He won't get death. The people in America who cry for the death penalty most of the time will rejoice.

Your's is an interesting country.

He got a life sentence. I don't understand your comment about people who cry for the death penalty.

[tichabou]

He got a life sentence. I don't understand your comment about people who cry for the death penalty.

I believe that he is arguing that conservatives (who tend to be pro death penalty and anti abortion) will be happy that Roeder did not get executed, despite the fact that they are generally the biggest supporters of the punishment.

[Matt]

I believe that he is arguing that conservatives (who tend to be pro death penalty and anti abortion) will be happy that Roeder did not get executed, despite the fact that they are generally the biggest supporters of the punishment.

Thank you, much easier than for me to say it.

[Matt]

He got a life sentence. I don't understand your comment about people who cry for the death penalty.

He is eliglible for a death sentence isn't he? The Translationsi for me are slow.

[ryr8828]

He is eliglible for a death sentence isn't he? The Translationsi for me are slow.


According to the Sedgwick County DA’s office (http://sedgwickcounty.org/DA/death.html#what): The death penalty may only be given in circumstances where a defendant is convicted of pre-meditated first degree murder under the following limited factual circumstances:


During a kidnapping for ransom
During a killing committed under a contract or agreement
The killing of any person by someone confined in a state correctional institution, community correction institution or jail or while in official custody
A killing during the commission of, or attempt to commit, a rape or aggravated sodomy of any person
The killing of a law enforcement officer
The killing of more than one person as part of the same act or in two or more acts connected together
The killing of a child under age 14 during a kidnapping or aggravated kidnapping with the intent to commit a sex offense upon the child

http://newmexicoindependent.com/28665/no-death-penalty-for-scott-roeder-accused-of-murdering-abortion-doctor

[Matt]

According to the Sedgwick County DA’s office (http://sedgwickcounty.org/DA/death.html#what): The death penalty may only be given in circumstances where a defendant is convicted of pre-meditated first degree murder under the following limited factual circumstances:


During a kidnapping for ransom
During a killing committed under a contract or agreement
The killing of any person by someone confined in a state correctional institution, community correction institution or jail or while in official custody
A killing during the commission of, or attempt to commit, a rape or aggravated sodomy of any person
The killing of a law enforcement officer
The killing of more than one person as part of the same act or in two or more acts connected together
The killing of a child under age 14 during a kidnapping or aggravated kidnapping with the intent to commit a sex offense upon the child

http://newmexicoindependent.com/28665/no-death-penalty-for-scott-roeder-accused-of-murdering-abortion-doctor


Thanks for pointing that out to me.

What do you think? Do you think that a murdered admitted should be killed?

[ryr8828]

Thanks for pointing that out to me.

What do you think? Do you think that a murdered admitted should be killed?
I believe in the death penalty although I'll admit that I feel sorry for this man.

[Matt]

I believe in the death penalty although I'll admit that I feel sorry for this man.

Why?

He murdered another man buy putting gun to his face in his church. That is the most rotten murders. You feel sorry for this man?

[domenick2x]

Thanks for pointing that out to me.

What do you think? Do you think that a murdered admitted should be killed?
Personally, not in all cases. I'm not so sure I'd let this guy off the hook, though.

My general test is what danger does he hold for the rest of society? Someone who kills a lover, or a single person due to a very limited motive (they stole his life savings, etc)... that's generally a damned long prison sentence.

This guy decided to kill someone who wasn't doing anything illegal (and yes, I know about the questionable procedures, but I'm doubtful that I'd find that as excuse).... certainly any number of abortion advocates and doctors could be perceived targets, were this guy to get out of jail.

I think the risk to productive members of society would make him eligible for the DP.

[Vegas]

I believe that he is arguing that conservatives (who tend to be pro death penalty and anti abortion) will be happy that Roeder did not get executed, despite the fact that they are generally the biggest supporters of the punishment.

Happy? I think he should have got the death penalty but that's nothing to be happy about.

[tichabou]

Happy? I think he should have got the death penalty but that's nothing to be happy about.

I think he means more of a Kinja conservative.

[ryr8828]

Why?

He murdered another man buy putting gun to his face in his church. That is the most rotten murders. You feel sorry for this man?
He killed a man who specialized in late term abortions. A man who had been investigated for skirting the law on late term abortions.

A man getting rich from killing babies who weren't long from being born. I view that to be worse, law be damned.

One man killed once for principle, misguided or not.
The other killed many many times for money.

[Matt]

He killed a man who specialized in late term abortions. A man who had been investigated for skirting the law on late term abortions.

One man killed once for principle, misguided or not.
The other killed many many times for money.

He was investigated, not convicted. Roeder is a murderer convicted. Death penalty, or non?

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

He got a life sentence. I don't understand your comment about people who cry for the death penalty. I cry for the death penalty.

Unfortunately, i don't get to cry very often seeing as my State's slow on carrying out its executions.

[duff_man9908]

I would never be able to send another man to the death penalty...however, I do believe it should be something on the table to be used in the most extreme of cases.

[MTVike]

I would never be able to send another man to the death penalty...however, I do believe it should be something on the table to be used in the most extreme of cases.

So you think the death penalty is OK, as long as you don't have to carry it out?

Hmm.

I hate abortion for the same reason I oppose the death penalty.

Only God has the right to take the life He has given.

[duff_man9908]

I don't believe that it is right to take another man's life, period. However, if a jury of my peers says somebody deserves to die...who am I to judge?

[MTVike]

I don't believe that it is right to take another man's life, period. However, if a jury of my peers says somebody deserves to die...who am I to judge?

A voter.

[duff_man9908]

A voter.


And a 3rd party one at that!

[thrasymachus]

Personally, not in all cases. I'm not so sure I'd let this guy off the hook, though.

My general test is what danger does he hold for the rest of society? Someone who kills a lover, or a single person due to a very limited motive (they stole his life savings, etc)... that's generally a damned long prison sentence.

This guy decided to kill someone who wasn't doing anything illegal (and yes, I know about the questionable procedures, but I'm doubtful that I'd find that as excuse).... certainly any number of abortion advocates and doctors could be perceived targets, were this guy to get out of jail.

I think the risk to productive members of society would make him eligible for the DP.
The state and federal government did not want Roeder killed in this particular situation --> it would likely have made him a martyr for his cause and rallied more anti-abortion groups than it would be worth.

[thrasymachus]

He killed a man who specialized in late term abortions. A man who had been investigated for skirting the law on late term abortions.

A man getting rich from killing babies who weren't long from being born. I view that to be worse, law be damned.

One man killed once for principle, misguided or not.
The other killed many many times for money.
I do believe it is completely inaccurate to say he killed for money.

Did he do abortions for money? Did he do it to help people? Did he do it because he felt bad for pregnant mothers? Did he do it for any reason that I haven't mentioned?

You saying he killed for money is like me saying Roeder killed for fame. And I think that's a good analogy . . . since both money (for the doctor) and fame -- or infamy -- (for Roeder) were probably both incidental to why they actually engaged in the conduct they chose.

[domenick2x]

The state and federal government did not want Roeder killed in this particular situation --> it would likely have made him a martyr for his cause and rallied more anti-abortion groups than it would be worth.
I'm not arguing the wisdom of the state... merely speaking from a personal perspective.

[ryr8828]

I do believe it is completely inaccurate to say he killed for money.

Did he do abortions for money? Did he do it to help people? Did he do it because he felt bad for pregnant mothers? Did he do it for any reason that I haven't mentioned?

You saying he killed for money is like me saying Roeder killed for fame. And I think that's a good analogy . . . since both money (for the doctor) and fame -- or infamy -- (for Roeder) were probably both incidental to why they actually engaged in the conduct they chose.Are you saying he would have performed the late term abortions for free?

Perhaps just for the love of it?

[domenick2x]

Are you saying he would have performed the late term abortions for free?

Perhaps just for the love of it?
I took it as "He was a doctor, and he could have chosen to make just as much money in another field of medicine. He provided a legal service that damned few doctors do... and was compensated for his service."

[kydoty]

He killed a man who specialized in late term abortions. A man who had been investigated for skirting the law on late term abortions.

A man getting rich from killing babies who weren't long from being born. I view that to be worse, law be damned.

One man killed once for principle, misguided or not.
The other killed many many times for money.

Murder is murder. The reason is irrelevant. Scott Roeder and George Tiller are both murderers. They are one and the same.

[ryr8828]

Murder is murder. The reason is irrelevant. Scott Roeder and George Tiller are both murderers. They are one and the same.Thank you.

[thrasymachus]

I took it as "He was a doctor, and he could have chosen to make just as much money in another field of medicine. He provided a legal service that damned few doctors do... and was compensated for his service."
And that is exactly what I meant.

[domenick2x]

Murder is murder. The reason is irrelevant. Scott Roeder and George Tiller are both murderers. They are one and the same.
Tiller?

[thrasymachus]

Tiller?
I think he meant Stiller. The guy from the Meet the Parents movies.

[TGPackersTwins19]

Tiller?

Yes, Tiller.

As for Roeder, he'll go to hell, and deservedly so. I wish him as much misery as possible for the rest of his time on earth and for eternity thereafter.

[Reagan Smash]

So no tea for the Tillerman?

[domenick2x]

Yes, Tiller.

As for Roeder, he'll go to hell, and deservedly so. I wish him as much misery as possible for the rest of his time on earth and for eternity thereafter.
Tiller? The guy who got murdered in church?

Or is there some other guy named Tiller that you are referring to?

Because if it's him, he certainly has never been proven guilty of murder... particularly considering the definition of the term. Unless you know something we don't know.

[TGPackersTwins19]

Tiller? The guy who got murdered in church?

Or is there some other guy named Tiller that you are referring to?

Because if it's him, he certainly has never been proven guilty of murder... particularly considering the definition of the term. Unless you know something we don't know.

Abortion IS the murder of a human life, whether you choose to see that or not. That makes Tiller a murderer, even though he technically committed no crimes.

And yes, what the Roeder puke did was completely inexcusable. He will eventually rot in Hell, and he deserves every bit of misery he receives there.

But Tiller is not a good person. Far from it.

[thrasymachus]

Abortion IS the murder of a human life, whether you choose to see that or not. That makes Tiller a murderer, even though he technically committed no crimes.

And yes, what the Roeder puke did was completely inexcusable. He will eventually rot in Hell, and he deserves every bit of misery he receives there.

But Tiller is not a good person. Far from it.
Do you know how "murder" is defined?

[domenick2x]

Do you know how "murder" is defined?
Clearly not.

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

Do you know how "murder" is defined?
Have you yet learned how it is that companies & unions have a 'voice' thus the 1st Amendment applies to them, too??

[thrasymachus]

Have you yet learned how it is that companies & unions have a 'voice' thus the 1st Amendment applies to them, too??
I think you don't understand the difference between when a person doesn't understand something and when a person doesn't agree with something.

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

I think you don't understand the difference between when a person doesn't understand something and when a person doesn't agree with something. I understand differences very well.

But your arguments against allowing companies the right to free speech was laughable if not very inarticulate.