Kennedy vs, the Bishop

[domenick2x]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091122/ap_on_re_us/us_ri_bishop_kennedy;_ylt=Am12f3kCbT9_FjXd.dmzfSxv 24cA;_ylu=X3oDMTJuMnRicWNqBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkxMTIy L3VzX3JpX2Jpc2hvcF9rZW5uZWR5BGNwb3MDNARwb3MDNARzZW MDeW5fdG9wX3N0b3JpZXMEc2xrA3JpYmlzaG9wYXNrZQ--


EAST PROVIDENCE, R.I. – The Roman Catholic bishop of Rhode Island says he asked Rep. Patrick Kennedy to stop receiving Holy Communion in 2007 because of the lawmaker's support for abortion rights.

That revelation Sunday proved an ugly climax to a simmering feud between Kennedy and his staunch critic, Bishop Thomas Tobin.

Kennedy told The Providence Journal in a story published Sunday that Tobin "instructed" him not to receive Communion because of his abortion rights stance. Kennedy said Tobin told diocesan priests not to give him Communion.

Tobin says he asked Kennedy to stop receiving communion, but he never instructed his priests not to give the sacrament to Kennedy.

The two men have clashed over abortion restrictions in a proposed overhaul of the nation's health care system.

-----------------


This brings up an interesting topic, and I'm hoping that we can engage it in relatively civilly.

Can a person have a public stance (i.e. allowing others to have freedom to choose in the case of abortion) and yet be personally against it without violating the code of the Catholic Church? While Catholics are indeed against abortion, does that mean that a Catholic politician must adhere to the teachings of the Church when dealing with governance over Catholics and non-Catholics?

This ties back to the thought back with JFK 'taking orders from the Vatican' or even more recently, Mitt Romney being a Mormon and what that would mean.

Now, by the same token, I can see where the Church may hold a public stance against a person, even though they may not have crossed that line personally. It's a challenging point of view.

[MTVike]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091122/ap_on_re_us/us_ri_bishop_kennedy;_ylt=Am12f3kCbT9_FjXd.dmzfSxv 24cA;_ylu=X3oDMTJuMnRicWNqBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkxMTIy L3VzX3JpX2Jpc2hvcF9rZW5uZWR5BGNwb3MDNARwb3MDNARzZW MDeW5fdG9wX3N0b3JpZXMEc2xrA3JpYmlzaG9wYXNrZQ--



Can a person have a public stance (i.e. allowing others to have freedom to choose in the case of abortion) and yet be personally against it without violating the code of the Catholic Church? While Catholics are indeed against abortion, does that mean that a Catholic politician must adhere to the teachings of the Church when dealing with governance over Catholics and non-Catholics?



Doesn't make much sense to me.

But, render unto Ceasar....

[domenick2x]

Doesn't make much sense to me.

But, render unto Ceasar....
I'm not sure 'render unto Caesar' applies here... can you clarify what you mean?

And to clarify my side, I think that the majority of pro-choice folks (not protesters, per se, but general Americans who align themselves as 'pro choice') would agree with the stance I've set up there - they may not ever personally want one, but they don't feel that they should tell someone else how to feel about it.

[kydoty]

Some bishop felt like he needed to go on a power trip today. You could excommunicate the entire state of Massachusetts for being Catholic and pro-abortion.

But nope, let's just punish a Kennedy today because we need to make it look like we're still important.

[domenick2x]

Some bishop felt like he needed to go on a power trip today. You could excommunicate the entire state of Massachusetts for being Catholic and pro-abortion.

But nope, let's just punish a Kennedy today because we need to make it look like we're still important.
Well, to be fair, no excommunication happened here.

The Bishop told Kennedy that his views were incompatible with the Catholic Church, and that he shouldn't take communion because of that. Kennedy clearly hasn't taken Communion in the presence of the Bishop since... but other than that, we have no idea whats happened.

In my opinion, to avoid hypocrisy, the Bishop should tell his congregation the same thing. I wonder how many would partake of Communion in that case. I have no knowledge if he did or didn't, by the way.

[kydoty]

The Bishop told Kennedy that his views were incompatible with the Catholic Church

Most Catholics' beliefs are incompatible with the Catholic Church.

[domenick2x]

Most Catholics' beliefs are incompatible with the Catholic Church.
Other than birth control and premarital sex, I don't know what you mean.

[kydoty]

Other than birth control and premarital sex, I don't know what you mean.

Divorce? Many have had at least one. Gay marriage? Most of the Catholics I know are all in favor of it.

Heck, let's look at the 7 deadly sins. Wrath, Avarice, Sloth, Pride, Lust, Envy, and Gluttony. We've all done at least one of those in our life, probably multiple times.

Ultra religious people are so fucking quick to accuse others of wrongdoing that they conveniently forget about John 8:7 "So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." As well as Matthew 7:5 "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

As I've said before, I love Jesus. It's the assholes that claim to follow his teachings that I've got a problem with.

[domenick2x]

Divorce? Many have had at least one. Gay marriage? Most of the Catholics I know are all in favor of it.

Heck, let's look at the 7 deadly sins. Wrath, Avarice, Sloth, Pride, Lust, Envy, and Gluttony. We've all done at least one of those in our life, probably multiple times.

Ultra religious people are so fucking quick to accuse others of wrongdoing that they conveniently forget about John 8:7 "So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." As well as Matthew 7:5 "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

As I've said before, I love Jesus. It's the assholes that claim to follow his teachings that I've got a problem with.
Divorce, yeah... I can see that one.

Gay marriage... I have my doubts, but I'm not tight with many devout Catholics.

As for the sins, certainly individuals will sin. That's part of the whole deal. But atone and gain forgiveness... that's where the conflict comes in, as Kennedy won't atone for a public position on abortion.

[Peter for President]

Some bishop felt like he needed to go on a power trip today. You could excommunicate the entire state of Massachusetts for being Catholic and pro-abortion.

But nope, let's just punish a Kennedy today because we need to make it look like we're still important.
Catholics are very against abortion. Therefore, a bishop feels this person in power is not practicing the acts of a Catholic. I don't see this as a power trip at all. You disagree with his actions, but that doesn't make them wrong.

[ryr8828]

Divorce? Many have had at least one. Gay marriage? Most of the Catholics I know are all in favor of it.

Heck, let's look at the 7 deadly sins. Wrath, Avarice, Sloth, Pride, Lust, Envy, and Gluttony. We've all done at least one of those in our life, probably multiple times.

Ultra religious people are so fucking quick to accuse others of wrongdoing that they conveniently forget about John 8:7 "So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." As well as Matthew 7:5 "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

As I've said before, I love Jesus. It's the assholes that claim to follow his teachings that I've got a problem with.

Committing sin is somewhat different than advocating them. All have sinned or will sin.

[KinjaKahn]

Personally I am against slaughtering children on the playground with a chain saw, but who am I to oppose anyones differing opinion?

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

Other than birth control and premarital sex, I don't know what you mean.As I've said before, I love Jesus. It's the assholes that claim to follow his teachings that I've got a problem with. I think both of you confuse- or are trying to confuse- 'Catholics' with Evangelicals.

In Dom's case, i've observed that he almost *wants* Catholics to act like Evangelicals so that he can slap them with the 'hypocrisy' stuff.

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

Can a person have a public stance (i.e. allowing others to have freedom to choose in the case of abortion) and yet be personally against it without violating the code of the Catholic Church? While Catholics are indeed against abortion, does that mean that a Catholic politician must adhere to the teachings of the Church when dealing with governance over Catholics and non-Catholics?

This ties back to the thought back with JFK 'taking orders from the Vatican' or even more recently, Mitt Romney being a Mormon and what that would mean. Timely question given JFK's assassination anniversary today.

My mom- a JFK dem- had the thought that *she* would never abort a baby, but didn't want a female to have to resort to the proverbial 'back-alley abortion' if it were outlawed (to which i always asked whether there ever was a time that somebody was prosecuted for aborting a baby behind closed doors). To that, the answer was always similar to the thought- today- that if MJ were outlawed nobody would ever be able to smoke it.

In other words, it was always a 'but but but' and i couldn't ever recall a time when i had read about a doctor being arrested for aborting a baby prior to Roe vs. Wade. it was more *myth* than fact.

Anyway, mom was what i'd consider the typical catholic who'd say it wasn't for her, but wanted to keep it open for others. And, BTW, i'd venture to guess that *most* Catholics disagree with gay marriage (but would vote for legalized abortion or against ceasing abortions) if they were told to make a choice.

Unlike Evangelicals- who'd vote in the exact same way they live their lives (and tend to be more hardcore about it)- I don't think 'Catholics' are prone to 'preach' their lifestyle to non-Catholics in the way in which Dom would possibly like them to (given his swipe at Catholics about premarital sex and birth control). :rolleyes:

[Sidenote: Dom, just so'z ya know...the Catholic church teaches ways to *practice* birth control...did so in my and my wife's pre-marriage classes. Yes, you can have natural sex and not have to have a baby....or did you not realize/know that???] :rolleyes:

And as far as fornication goes, to my knowledge it's not a Cardinal sin, Dom.

...and yes, that, too, can be done naturally and not yield a baby.
---------------

As far as your thread question goes, Kennedy's in a prominent position as an office-holder and if he's *advocating* on behalf of abortion- versus also including counseling and adoption as options- it's well within the right of the Bishop to ask that he no longer continue to take Communion.

That's the thing lefties don't understand. 'Choice' also involves alternatives to abortion and not just hand-wringing over a decision to abort.

[domenick2x]

I think both of you confuse- or are trying to confuse- 'Catholics' with Evangelicals.

In Dom's case, i've observed that he almost *wants* Catholics to act like Evangelicals so that he can slap them with the 'hypocrisy' stuff.
Nah. It's just you that I want to slap with the big H.

[Iron Jaw]

Some bishop felt like he needed to go on a power trip today. You could excommunicate the entire state of Massachusetts for being Catholic and pro-abortion.

But nope, let's just punish a Kennedy today because we need to make it look like we're still important.

Perhaps the cokehead can get stoned and drive his car into the Bishop's chambers.

Pat Kennedy is a piece of work.

[domenick2x]

Timely question given JFK's assassination anniversary today.

My mom- a JFK dem- had the thought that *she* would never abort a baby, but didn't want a female to have to resort to the proverbial 'back-alley abortion' if it were outlawed (to which i always asked whether there ever was a time that somebody was prosecuted for aborting a baby behind closed doors). To that, the answer was always similar to the thought- today- that if MJ were outlawed nobody would ever be able to smoke it.

In other words, it was always a 'but but but' and i couldn't ever recall a time when i had read about a doctor being arrested for aborting a baby prior to Roe vs. Wade. it was more *myth* than fact.

Anyway, mom was what i'd consider the typical catholic who'd say it wasn't for her, but wanted to keep it open for others. And, BTW, i'd venture to guess that *most* Catholics disagree with gay marriage (but would vote for legalized abortion or against ceasing abortions) if they were told to make a choice.

Unlike Evangelicals- who'd vote in the exact same way they live their lives (and tend to be more hardcore about it)- I don't think 'Catholics' are prone to 'preach' their lifestyle to non-Catholics in the way in which Dom would possibly like them to (given his swipe at Catholics about premarital sex and birth control). :rolleyes:

[Sidenote: Dom, just so'z ya know...the Catholic church teaches ways to *practice* birth control...did so in my and my wife's pre-marriage classes. Yes, you can have natural sex and not have to have a baby....or did you not realize/know that???] :rolleyes:

And as far as fornication goes, to my knowledge it's not a Cardinal sin, Dom.

...and yes, that, too, can be done naturally and not yield a baby.
---------------

As far as your thread question goes, Kennedy's in a prominent position as an office-holder and if he's *advocating* on behalf of abortion- versus also including counseling and adoption as options- it's well within the right of the Bishop to ask that he no longer continue to take Communion.

That's the thing lefties don't understand. 'Choice' also involves alternatives to abortion and not just hand-wringing over a decision to abort.

No I get all the choice involved, Ghost.

But what's really sweet is all the implication that you've used the old rhythm method... when you've avoided the question entirely of going against the Catholic Church and your wife having been on the pill.

http://sports-boards.net/forums/show...55&postcount=7
Birth control pill, check. Despite Catholic Church being against it.

So, pop quiz hotshot.

Did you engage in premarital sex, against the teachings of the Church? Personally, I see no shame in admitting it... but your attempted dodge on the old Pill topic really puts your honesty on trial here.


Now, as to the old 'how much I know about birth'... I happen to have a wife who's borne 3 of my own. One in a hospital, one in a birth center, and one at home. She's a yoga teacher and massage therapist who is currently specializing in prenatal for both areas and working on her doula training. I've read up on all the literature, and I volunteer time and effort on behalf of the natural birth movement here in the midatlantic (particularly in DE and PA, pushing midwifery as a viable option for women).

Go ahead, quiz me.

[becherr]

Most Catholics' beliefs are incompatible with the Catholic Church.

Ding, Ding, ding....we have a winner Bob.

[becherr]

Some bishop felt like he needed to go on a power trip today. You could excommunicate the entire state of Massachusetts for being Catholic and pro-abortion.

But nope, let's just punish a Kennedy today because we need to make it look like we're still important.

Power trip is a good adjective. Surprised that Kennedy can't make an "Offering" to shut the Bishops mouth. Money effects the Church like it effects polititians...you can get what you want.

[hannitykillspuppies]

Timely question given JFK's assassination anniversary today.

My mom- a JFK dem- had the thought that *she* would never abort a baby, but didn't want a female to have to resort to the proverbial 'back-alley abortion' if it were outlawed (to which i always asked whether there ever was a time that somebody was prosecuted for aborting a baby behind closed doors). To that, the answer was always similar to the thought- today- that if MJ were outlawed nobody would ever be able to smoke it.

In other words, it was always a 'but but but' and i couldn't ever recall a time when i had read about a doctor being arrested for aborting a baby prior to Roe vs. Wade. it was more *myth* than fact.

Anyway, mom was what i'd consider the typical catholic who'd say it wasn't for her, but wanted to keep it open for others. And, BTW, i'd venture to guess that *most* Catholics disagree with gay marriage (but would vote for legalized abortion or against ceasing abortions) if they were told to make a choice.

Unlike Evangelicals- who'd vote in the exact same way they live their lives (and tend to be more hardcore about it)- I don't think 'Catholics' are prone to 'preach' their lifestyle to non-Catholics in the way in which Dom would possibly like them to (given his swipe at Catholics about premarital sex and birth control). :rolleyes:

[Sidenote: Dom, just so'z ya know...the Catholic church teaches ways to *practice* birth control...did so in my and my wife's pre-marriage classes. Yes, you can have natural sex and not have to have a baby....or did you not realize/know that???] :rolleyes:

And as far as fornication goes, to my knowledge it's not a Cardinal sin, Dom.

...and yes, that, too, can be done naturally and not yield a baby.
---------------

As far as your thread question goes, Kennedy's in a prominent position as an office-holder and if he's *advocating* on behalf of abortion- versus also including counseling and adoption as options- it's well within the right of the Bishop to ask that he no longer continue to take Communion.

That's the thing lefties don't understand. 'Choice' also involves alternatives to abortion and not just hand-wringing over a decision to abort.the catholic church endorses the pull out method as an acceptable form of birth control?

[hannitykillspuppies]

the catholic church endorses the pull out method as an acceptable form of birth control?

this would seem to say no.

Unlawful Birth Control Methods

14. Therefore We base Our words on the first principles of a human and Christian doctrine of marriage when We are obliged once more to declare that the direct interruption of the generative process already begun and, above all, all direct abortion, even for therapeutic reasons, are to be absolutely excluded as lawful means of regulating the number of children. (14) Equally to be condemned, as the magisterium of the Church has affirmed on many occasions, is direct sterilization, whether of the man or of the woman, whether permanent or temporary. (15)

Similarly excluded is any action which either before, at the moment of, or after sexual intercourse, is specifically intended to prevent procreation—whether as an end or as a means. (16)

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

the catholic church endorses the pull out method as an acceptable form of birth control? How did you jump to that conclusion, Chuckles????

Making ASSumptions yet again???

[hannitykillspuppies]

How did you jump to that conclusion, Chuckles????

Making ASSumptions yet again???

they didn't teach her to use condoms, they didn't teach her to use the pill, and they didn't teach her to get an abortion.

[LionFanFormerlyInLA]

they didn't teach her to use condoms, they didn't teach her to use the pill, and they didn't teach her to get an abortion.

Actually they push for the rhythm method, not pulling out.

[hannitykillspuppies]

Actually they push for the rhythm method, not pulling out.

i'm sure it's just as effective as pulling out.

[LionFanFormerlyInLA]

i'm sure it's just as effective as pulling out.

I don't know the percentages from a biological standpoint. Either method does not condone abortion however.

[hannitykillspuppies]

I don't know the percentages from a biological standpoint. Either method does not condone abortion however.
13-20% failure rate.

[LionFanFormerlyInLA]

13-20% failure rate.

inclusive or exclusive of spontaneous abortion?

[hannitykillspuppies]

inclusive or exclusive of spontaneous abortion?didn't say.

and i'm sure everyone's wife has the exact cycle each month.

[LionFanFormerlyInLA]

didn't say.

and i'm sure everyone's wife has the exact cycle each month.

Life would be easier that way, though I have no idea what this has to do with Dom's original question.

[LionFanFormerlyInLA]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091122/ap_on_re_us/us_ri_bishop_kennedy;_ylt=Am12f3kCbT9_FjXd.dmzfSxv 24cA;_ylu=X3oDMTJuMnRicWNqBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkxMTIy L3VzX3JpX2Jpc2hvcF9rZW5uZWR5BGNwb3MDNARwb3MDNARzZW MDeW5fdG9wX3N0b3JpZXMEc2xrA3JpYmlzaG9wYXNrZQ--


EAST PROVIDENCE, R.I. – The Roman Catholic bishop of Rhode Island says he asked Rep. Patrick Kennedy to stop receiving Holy Communion in 2007 because of the lawmaker's support for abortion rights.

That revelation Sunday proved an ugly climax to a simmering feud between Kennedy and his staunch critic, Bishop Thomas Tobin.

Kennedy told The Providence Journal in a story published Sunday that Tobin "instructed" him not to receive Communion because of his abortion rights stance. Kennedy said Tobin told diocesan priests not to give him Communion.

Tobin says he asked Kennedy to stop receiving communion, but he never instructed his priests not to give the sacrament to Kennedy.

The two men have clashed over abortion restrictions in a proposed overhaul of the nation's health care system.

-----------------


This brings up an interesting topic, and I'm hoping that we can engage it in relatively civilly.

Can a person have a public stance (i.e. allowing others to have freedom to choose in the case of abortion) and yet be personally against it without violating the code of the Catholic Church? While Catholics are indeed against abortion, does that mean that a Catholic politician must adhere to the teachings of the Church when dealing with governance over Catholics and non-Catholics?

This ties back to the thought back with JFK 'taking orders from the Vatican' or even more recently, Mitt Romney being a Mormon and what that would mean.

Now, by the same token, I can see where the Church may hold a public stance against a person, even though they may not have crossed that line personally. It's a challenging point of view.


Its a fair question. Do we expect our politicians to vote based on their spiritual, moral, or other convictions or based on their populace?

Personally I believe that its neither.

[hannitykillspuppies]

Life would be easier that way, though I have no idea what this has to do with Dom's original question.

the rhythm method relies on the idea that the cycle will be exactly the same each month.

i don't either.

[hannitykillspuppies]

and actually the rhythm method doesn't seem to jive with what i posted from the vatican.

[LionFanFormerlyInLA]

and actually the rhythm method doesn't seem to jive with what i posted from the vatican.

That is the recommended method of BC in Catholicism. And not sure why it doesn't jive, but whatever.

[hannitykillspuppies]

That is the recommended method of BC in Catholicism. And not sure why it doesn't jive, but whatever.

Similarly excluded is any action which either before, at the moment of, or after sexual intercourse, is specifically intended to prevent procreation—whether as an end or as a means. (16)

[LionFanFormerlyInLA]

Similarly excluded is any action which either before, at the moment of, or after sexual intercourse, is specifically intended to prevent procreation—whether as an end or as a means. (16)

Having sex while the woman is not likely to conceive is not excluded from your definition, which is basically what the rhythm method is. If I am not mistaken, the interpretation of that is you do not use a specific method of birth control designed to block contraception.

Mind you, you are talking specifically Catholicism, not other Christian religions. Catholicism has always been very stringent on their viewpoint of birth control, whether you (or I) agree with it or not.

[becherr]

Its a fair question. Do we expect our politicians to vote based on their spiritual, moral, or other convictions or based on their populace?

Personally I believe that its neither.

Our politicians vote based on what gives them the most gratification....simular to the Catholic church. They are both institutions based on the "Do as I say not as I do" method of leading.

[LionFanFormerlyInLA]

Our politicians vote based on what gives them the most gratification....simular to the Catholic church. They are both institutions based on the "Do as I say not as I do" method of leading.

No argument bro.

[becherr]

Having sex while the woman is not likely to conceive is not excluded from your definition, which is basically what the rhythm method is. If I am not mistaken, the interpretation of that is you do not use a specific method of birth control designed to block contraception.

Mind you, you are talking specifically Catholicism, not other Christian religions. Catholicism has always been very stringent on their viewpoint of birth control, whether you (or I) agree with it or not.

From what I understood from my Mom and my Catholic upbring was there was no need for birth control and ANY type of attempt to relegate the contreception of a child was a sin. A Catholic family should allow God to determine when they had a child....no other science involved in it.

[LionFanFormerlyInLA]

From what I understood from my Mom and my Catholic upbring was there was no need for birth control and ANY type of attempt to relegate the contreception of a child was a sin. A Catholic family should allow God to determine when they had a child....no other science involved in it.

Catholic school I was taught that the rhythm method was the form of birth control. Now I know you were growing up before automobiles, but... :p

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

Actually they push for the rhythm method, not pulling out. Bingo.

I realize that Ashey's yet to even have sexual intercourse, thus he's never heard of the 'rhythm method'.

If he were to have the experience of a marriage counseling class thru the Catholic church, he'd know that there're ways to not have a baby yet have great sex. But first he'd have to have a g/f before he could even think of marriage in order to enroll in a Catholic church's counseling session. :rolleyes:

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

and actually the rhythm method doesn't seem to jive with what i posted from the vatican. It does.

You're just to damn ignorant to know much about the 'rhythm method'...which- for as long as i've been alive and before- has been what the Catholic church has espoused for BC, Chuckles.

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

No I get all the choice involved, Ghost.

But what's really sweet is all the implication that you've used the old rhythm method... when you've avoided the question entirely of going against the Catholic Church and your wife having been on the pill.

http://sports-boards.net/forums/show...55&postcount=7
Birth control pill, check. Despite Catholic Church being against it.

So, pop quiz hotshot.

Did you engage in premarital sex, against the teachings of the Church? Personally, I see no shame in admitting it... but your attempted dodge on the old Pill topic really puts your honesty on trial here. Man are you one dumb mofo. You made this entire thread up in order to accuse me of hypocrisy (or put me on 'trial'???) :rolleyes:

Funny part is, if you were paying attention to my life this well why then are you even asking me whether i had premarital sex??? (I think i've admitted to being this side of a womanizer when i was in my pre-marriage youth, Perry Mason).

Regarding the first paragraph above, i met my wife- a woman considering the Jewish religion and somebody who was, back then, verrrry liberal- and yes she *was* in fact on the pill prior to meeting me.

Now, seeing as she wasn't somebody i had any say over at that time, it wasn't until we started dating regularly and became committed that she gave up the pill. You able to comprehend this???

I doubt it.
:rolleyes:

Now, as to the old 'how much I know about birth'... I happen to have a wife who's borne 3 of my own. One in a hospital, one in a birth center, and one at home. She's a yoga teacher and massage therapist who is currently specializing in prenatal for both areas and working on her doula training. I've read up on all the literature, and I volunteer time and effort on behalf of the natural birth movement here in the midatlantic (particularly in DE and PA, pushing midwifery as a viable option for women).

Go ahead, quiz me. The above doesn't interest me in the least. Maybe you wanted to brag about yourself. Good for you.

:rolleyes:

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

Nah. It's just you that I want to slap with the big H. Of course. :rolleyes:

No wonder you ASSumed that I somehow had ruling control over my then g/f's actions as her b/f and it wasn't until we decided to move towards a relationship that she gave up the pill and we adhered to the Church's method of BC.


And meanwhile, i've always noted how those with what seems like a shaken faith or flat out lack of faith are the first to try to take down others who do have a larger belief in God than they do. :cool:

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

BTW, a$$wipe, my sister had to take 'the pill'- as prescribed by her doctor- to help her regulate her periods when she was having all kinds of female problems and cramping. It had no value to her as a BC product...only as a menstrual-regulating product.

You gonna call her out too as part of your role as self-proclaimed leader of all Catholics???
:rolleyes:

[domenick2x]

BTW, a$$wipe, my sister had to take 'the pill'- as prescribed by her doctor- to help her regulate her periods when she was having all kinds of female problems and cramping. It had no value to her as a BC product...only as a menstrual-regulating product.

You gonna call her out too as part of your role as self-proclaimed leader of all Catholics???
:rolleyes:
You are the one who 'read the book' and dictates what Christians should or shouldn't believe.

And your ego is amazing. This wasn't about you, and it was a civil discussion until you starting taking potshots. So look in the mirror and you'll see who's at fault here for this dropping into a pissing match.

[MTVike]

Catholic school I was taught that the rhythm method was the form of birth control. Now I know you were growing up before automobiles, but... :p

My in laws practiced the rythym method throughout their married life (they were much more open than my parents...I'm not sure what they did, probably the same?). Though they had a failry large family, I don't think they had unplanned preganancies, but I don't know for sure.

You can get pretty good at identifying a woman's cycles if you pay attention.

My wife and I used the reverse rhythm method to get preganant when we were ready. Worked pretty well.

[hannitykillspuppies]

From what I understood from my Mom and my Catholic upbring was there was no need for birth control and ANY type of attempt to relegate the contreception of a child was a sin. A Catholic family should allow God to determine when they had a child....no other science involved in it.this is correct.

[jcarm22]

this is correct.
There are Catholic classes that teach how to use methods, other than rhythm, to find when a woman is "most fertile". And we're talking like discussing mucus. Not exactly mine (or the wife's) cup of tea.

Allegedly, it's to help couples that are having problems getting pregnant. I'm sure that what one chooses to do with the information is up to them.

Passing up sex isn't a sin, in the Church's eyes.

I think.

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

And your ego is amazing. This wasn't about you, and it was a civil discussion until you starting taking potshots. So look in the mirror and you'll see who's at fault here for this dropping into a pissing match. *I* took 'em???

The thread started out about Kennedy and a Bishop....but quickly turned- on *your* words, not mine- into a pissing match over *my* life.:rolleyes:

To wit:
Nah. It's just you that I want to slap with the big H.
No I get all the choice involved, Ghost.

But what's really sweet is all the implication that you've used the old rhythm method... when you've avoided the question entirely of going against the Catholic Church and your wife having been on the pill.

http://sports-boards.net/forums/show...55&postcount=7
Birth control pill, check. Despite Catholic Church being against it.

So, pop quiz hotshot.

Did you engage in premarital sex, against the teachings of the Church? Personally, I see no shame in admitting it... but your attempted dodge on the old Pill topic really puts your honesty on trial here.
(Me) you 'want to slap with the big H'??? 'Hotshot'??? 'On trial here'???

I don't see that as you wanting any true 'discussion' here.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[domenick2x]

*I* took 'em???

The thread started out about Kennedy and a Bishop....but quickly turned- on *your* words, not mine- into a pissing match over *my* life.:rolleyes:

To wit:
[/B]
(Me) you 'want to slap with the big H'??? 'Hotshot'??? 'On trial here'???

I don't see that as you wanting any true 'discussion' here.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Posts 13 and 14. Until you started getting personal, we were talking about this Bishop, Kennedy, and Catholicism in general.

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

Posts 13 and 14. Until you started getting personal, we were talking about this Bishop, Kennedy, and Catholicism in general. How's 14 'personal'??? :rolleyes:

And 13's the truth, IMO. You seem to wanna go out of your way to view Catholics in the same way Evangelicals are viewed. And the two are very, very different to anybody who has observed both.

[domenick2x]

How's 14 'personal'??? :rolleyes:

And 13's the truth, IMO. You seem to wanna go out of your way to view Catholics in the same way Evangelicals are viewed. And the two are very, very different to anybody who has observed both.
Probably the part where you start mentioning me directly as opposed to talking about the points.

But maybe you missed that.

13 is not the truth. 13 is how you view the world... which we've seen time again is awfully skewed.

[Jesse Helms' Ghost]

Probably the part where you start mentioning me directly as opposed to talking about the points.

But maybe you missed that. I mentioned you because you- and KY- *did* seem to want to equate Catholicism to Evangelical Christianity (or their fervor that goes along with it).

And if you consider that some sort of 'slap', i dunno what to tell you. It was an observation that i didn't think would get sand in your undies.

You've made an observation of me- here- and i'm not upset over it. (It's wholly incorrect, but that's your view).

13 is not the truth. 13 is how you view the world... which we've seen time again is awfully skewed. You're right for once.

13 is *not* the truth. However, it *is* my observation of how you come across in seeing Catholicism. Again, an *observation*.

Catholicism is probably one of the most liberal religions around and it's practitioners tend to *not* preach or to scold others to follow their way of life versus Evangelicals. (But I sense that the recent anti-gay marriage stuff has you seeing both as equals).

[domenick2x]

I mentioned you because you- and KY- *did* seem to want to equate Catholicism to Evangelical Christianity (or their fervor that goes along with it).

And if you consider that some sort of 'slap', i dunno what to tell you. It was an observation that i didn't think would get sand in your undies.

You've made an observation of me- here- and i'm not upset over it. (It's wholly incorrect, but that's your view).

You're right for once.

13 is *not* the truth. However, it *is* my observation of how you come across in seeing Catholicism. Again, an *observation*.

Catholicism is probably one of the most liberal religions around and it's practitioners tend to *not* preach or to scold others to follow their way of life versus Evangelicals. (But I sense that the recent anti-gay marriage stuff has you seeing both as equals).
Up until that point, I thought I was pretty clear about views of Catholics vs. views of the Catholic Church (as brought up by Ky). An inconsistency that he brought up, and I did see some point to that.

I don't confuse Catholics and Evangelicals. Their church structures, however, have some very close parallels in terms of social policy (abortion and gay marriage being obvious examples).